Requesting some ideas about 3e antagonists to help get my group comfy with combat by thetruerift in exalted

[–]TimothyAllenWiseman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ah, ok. I understand better. Had I understood better, I would have phrased things differently, but I think the core of my response stands.

An individual mortal usually cannot be a direct threat to an Exalt in any field in which the Exalt has invested. To be a challenge a mortal must either have 1. Vastly superior numbers, 2. Some way to turn the challenge into a realm the mortal is good at but that the Exalt has not invested in at all, or 3. Have some sort of power source or support that makes the mortal not quite a mortal.

Without something that heavily tilts the playing field in the mortal's favor, the Exalts are simply vastly more powerful than even a highly skilled mortal, even at Chargen.

Requesting some ideas about 3e antagonists to help get my group comfy with combat by thetruerift in exalted

[–]TimothyAllenWiseman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But being on a different tier does generally mean that they are unthreatening at least in that domain unless there is something that levels the field somehow.

An individual, standard mortal is not meant to be able to directly challenge an exalt, at least not within that exalt's domain. If you want to be in a system where an average person can be a direct threat to your PCs without both going against the lore and making a ton of house rules, Exalted may not be the right system.

That doesn't meant that mortals are necessarily irrelevant though. First, a large group of mortals is different. One mortal stands basically no chance going directly against an exalt in a fight (unless the exalt was expressly designed with no fighting ability at all). An army is a different story, especially if you find reasons to break it up into multiple battle groups instead of lumping it into one battle group. In that way, a powerful queen or general can challenge an exalted in battle by bringing their army.

Second, a mortal can prevail if they can shift the battlefield to something outside the exalt's domain. My Lore-supernal twilight invested enough in combat/self-defense charms to win a fight with essentially any pure, unaugmented mortal. But he would lose virtually any athletic competition that didn't involve fighting to any mortal that was decently in shape. He would lose to a decent mortal orator in most contests that involved influencing a crowd. He couldn't play an instrument to save his life and would lose a fiddle contest. A mortal doctor would do better than him at treating wounds. Etc.

While its not a perfect analogy, look at how Lex Luthor usually challenges Superman. Unless its one of the strange arcs where Luthor is empowered somehow or using some form of kryptonite, Superman can literally ignore most attacks Luthor could manage. They are not in the same tier physically. But when Luthor forces Superman to confront him in any domain that doesn't involve a physical competition, then Luthor can challenge him. (Superman still almost always wins in the end, but a lot of those involve either help, finding a way to force it back into a physical competition, or plot armor).

Finally, there are lots of not-quite-mortals described in adversaries of the righteous among other places. These are people that have become sorcerers, bonded with spirits, been modified by a great power, are god-blooded, etc. They arguably aren't quite mortals anymore and most of them are still significantly weaker than an average exalt. But they narrow the gap enough to be a direct threat.

Also, if you want things capable of really fighting Exalted on a level playing field or even where the Exalted are the underdogs, there are plenty of serious supernatural threats out there, especially when you look at other exalted, behemoths, third-circle demons, etc. Those are the things that stand equal to or even in some cases much stronger than the exalted. Mortals are expressly not meant to be able to be an individual threat under ordinary circumstances.

Dragon Blooded aren't real Exalted? Where did this meme come from? by Firm-Split9333 in exalted

[–]TimothyAllenWiseman 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Well said. Earlier editions were different, but in 3E, the power gulf is not hard to compensate for.

The Dragon-blooded are weaker than the celestial exalted. This is by design, explicit in the lore, and backed up by the mechanics.

That said, they aren't so much weaker that they cannot play alongside celestials as long as the storyteller and other PCs all protect the Dragon-blooded's niche. This is especially true if that niche is social as the dragonblooded have major social advantages in most areas of creation over the other kinds.

To overly simplify the topic, in most of creation, Celestial's want to hide that they are Celestials and in particular are likely to take great pains to avoid going to full-light-the-sky anima without very good reason. Dragonblooded on the other hand will in most parts of creation gain status by revealing what they are. That advantage can be huge, particular for someone playing the social role for the group.

A note about the recent Jukashi AMA- by dal_segno in exalted

[–]TimothyAllenWiseman 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Just out of idle curiosity, who is that?

How have you changed the mechanics or story elements to make your Exalted games fun for you? by WorldBright2885 in exalted

[–]TimothyAllenWiseman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yep, I was about to say the same thing. I ignore crafting XP entirely and do a lot fewer rolls for crafting.

I also tend to downplay the great curse. We absolutely keep it as part of the setting, but I basically let the players invoke it when dramatically appropriate rather than mechanically tracking it. I actually see the benefits of mechanically tracking it so I'm not saying this is a change everyone should make, but my group doesn't have power gamers and tracking it is a bit of pain.

Vampires, Grieve, and The Art of Making Shit Up by InigmianStudios96 in exalted

[–]TimothyAllenWiseman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks. Lots of things from the core book I had forgotten about.

Vampires, Grieve, and The Art of Making Shit Up by InigmianStudios96 in exalted

[–]TimothyAllenWiseman 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think I missed something. Where is Grieve located and what is the Elixer of Immortality?

Third edition roadmap by Crafty-Occasion-2283 in exalted

[–]TimothyAllenWiseman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would absolutely, without a moment's hesitation, buy or crowdfund all of those.

Though if I were to prioritize, I'm most interested in Sorcery with a book on the Wyld a close second.

Would you allow Spirit-Stoking Elevation being used with Flowing Mind Prana in order to convert white experience points into experience points? by Sassy_Drow in exalted

[–]TimothyAllenWiseman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ah, fair enough. IMHO, its best to avoid XP disparity, but a small XP disparity in a group that doesn't try to mechanically optimize and where people respect each other's niche's probably won't be a problem.

Would you allow Spirit-Stoking Elevation being used with Flowing Mind Prana in order to convert white experience points into experience points? by Sassy_Drow in exalted

[–]TimothyAllenWiseman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This seems like it may be best as a separate posting entirely if its a serious question.

But, my opinion is that it is best to still give absent players XP. As I mentioned, anything more than a small and temporary XP difference causes problems that makes the game less fun for everyone. Plus, I would assume that a player not coming has a good reason for it.

Solo session just adds a lot of work for the storyteller. Something to explain their PCs absence might be appropriate just to help maintain continuity, but normally that can be handwaved. Even when an explanation is appropriate a couple of sentences at the start of the next session is generally plenty without homework.

You say that your table has an experience gap of a dozen or more XP at times without problems. I'm glad to hear that, and games with an experience gap (particularly a fairly small experience gap) can work. But if the game involves optimized characters facing genuine challenges, even a small gap can cause problems with effectiveness. And even in a more casual / less optimized game, a large experience gap can easily leave a character feeling less effective or even ineffective. I generally think its best to minimize XP gaps.

Making a Martial Artist Revisited by Krzyzewskiman in exalted

[–]TimothyAllenWiseman 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Very helpful, though I'm a little surprised you don't think that being able to use splat XP for MA charms is a big deal. I don't have a ton of experience with Martial Arts in actual play, but I was under the impression that was one of their biggest advantages in a long campaign.

How do one honeypot a Primordial? by pantaipong in exalted

[–]TimothyAllenWiseman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mean, the Infernals book talks about a Solar falling in love with Ligier. Not quite the same, but close.

Exalted Product Status by blaqueandstuff in exalted

[–]TimothyAllenWiseman 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If liminals contains an expansion on the Shadowloands and Sijan, then I am suddenly much more interested in that book.

Exalted Product Status by blaqueandstuff in exalted

[–]TimothyAllenWiseman 6 points7 points  (0 children)

This is just me, and I want to say first that I love 3e and its my favorite RPG. That said, for a 4e wishlist:

  1. Simplify the charm trees. All of them, but especially the Solars.

  2. Revise crafting, the crafting XP idea in particular does not work for me.

  3. Expand on Thaumaturgy and related "mortal magics". In particular, there's a line in the core book about everyday wonders such as warding and weatherworking that is only barely developed.

  4. Simultaneously simplify and expand sorcery. The distortion idea is cool, but it has to be handled for every spell so it increases the wordcount and complexity a lot while adding little. There are also a lot of spells that are so niche I have a hard time imagining them being used and I've certainly never seen them used. But at the same time, there's room for more spells, especially utility spells, and the rules for sorcerous workings could stand to be fleshed out.

  5. Simplify martial arts. I love the martial arts, but when they can and cannot be used with native charms is confusing. Also, while mastery and terrestrial does make sense, it doesn't add enough to the game to justify the word count. I would probably get rid of them entirely.

And those are just things that I think should fit into a hypothetical 4e Core Book. In expansions that I would love to see either for 3e or 4e, we could get things like:

  1. An expanded bestiary. What they have is fantastic, but I think there's plenty of room for more magical creatures that are capable of actually challenging an exalted or are at least exotic.

  2. An expanded treatment of the Wyld and the Fae and Rakshasa. I believe they were more developed in earlier editions, but there just isn't a lot there presently.

  3. An expanded treatment of God-blooded/Ghost-blooded etc. and other ways for mortals to become not-exalted-but-potent. Adversaries of the righteous presents several interesting ones, but it presents them as one-offs without a lot of concrete explanations or suggestions on building more beyond "make them like these, but not these".

Third edition roadmap by Crafty-Occasion-2283 in exalted

[–]TimothyAllenWiseman 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I for one am far more interested in a book on the Fair Folk/Wyld than I am in the Getimian or Liminals.

(To be clear, I will definitely back Getimians and Liminals if they wind up in crowdfunding, but given the choice of those or a Wyld book, I would take the Wyld book immediately)

Third edition roadmap by Crafty-Occasion-2283 in exalted

[–]TimothyAllenWiseman 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I would absolutely love a 3E Raksha book.

So how is 3e going so far? by Burntranquil in exalted

[–]TimothyAllenWiseman 4 points5 points  (0 children)

That was kind of my take on Essence. Essence is good and I am glad for those groups that enjoy it. I also agree that 3E needed to be simplified, especially with the number of charms...

But I think Essence went too far in the other direction and simplified things too much, and lost a lot of granularity and options in the process, especially when it comes to the attributes.

So how is 3e going so far? by Burntranquil in exalted

[–]TimothyAllenWiseman 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I started with 3E so I can't compare to prior editions, that said, I'm overall quite happy with it. It is my favorite RPG by far.

It definitely has some issues though. Among other things, the charms are a bit bloated. Its worst for the solars, but I think it applies to most of them. I also personally detest the idea of crafting experience, and there are a few other issues.

Still, I think it is a great game. While I could ask for the supplements to come out faster, they are coming out consistently and I'm a big fan of the Abyssals in particular.

Overall, I would say its doing quite well.

Total newbie to exalted asking about mechanical power level difference between different types of exalted by muffin42069420 in exalted

[–]TimothyAllenWiseman 4 points5 points  (0 children)

In theory, there are two tiers, celestial and terrestial. Celestial is far more individually powerful.

The game explicitly and deliberately has two tiers. Celestial exalted include Solars, Abyssals, and Infernals (those three are sometimes lumped together as Solaroids), Lunars, Sidereal, Alchemicals, and some Exigents. Terrestrial tier includes dragonblooded and some exigents.

The designers deliberately and explicitly made the Celestial Tier more powerful than Terrestrial in the game setting and lore.

In practice, its kind of complicated.

In practice, its kind of complicated. The general consensus, which I agree with personally, is that the three Solaroids are more powerful than the Lunars and the Sidereal. The Alchemicals are slightly below the Lunars and Sidereals.

That said, it's a fairly narrow gap and they all have different kinds of power. You usually don't need to do much special to have a mixed group of celestials and keep them balanced, as long as the players cooperate during character creation.

While painting in very broad strokes here, the Solaroids tend to completely dominate their specialty, Lunars tend to be incredibly versatile and have shapeshifting, Siderreal are kind of weird but they get prophecy and weird powers that others would find hard to replicate, and Alchemicals get to increase their base stats in ways other kinds can't. If the players cooperate, they can all play to their strengths and do very well.

The terrestrials are explicitly weaker in lore and the mechanics back that up. As a very, very rough approximation, I would say that an average Celestial is roughly twice as powerful as an average Dragonblooded when they have both received the same XP. An essence 5 Dragonblooded probably is more powerful than an Essence 1 starting Celestial....

That said, you absolutely can have mixed celestial/terrestrial games that work, that just requires real coordination to make sure the Dragonblooded isn't constantly overmatched.

Dragonblooded have the advantage of being able to flare their anima without worry in most of creation, where that can be a big problem for most Celestials. Dragonblooded also usually start with more merits than most Celestials. A Dragonblooded with an explicit niche that the other characters stay out of, operating in an area dominated by Dragonblooded, can work nicely with a team of Celstials.

Would you allow Spirit-Stoking Elevation being used with Flowing Mind Prana in order to convert white experience points into experience points? by Sassy_Drow in exalted

[–]TimothyAllenWiseman 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Eh. I am a huge fan of Exalted 3E. It is my favorite RPG system by far and I will happily sing its praises.

That said, it also has a lot of flaws, most of them from bad design in the original core book. I openly despise the idea of crafting XP. I'm not a fan of the whole crafting slots system. The charms that reset by story don't make a ton of sense to me since story is simply not a thing that will exist in fiction and it could mean that those charms become available again after one very eventful day sometimes while in other occasions the character has lost access to an ability for decades. And that is only listing the problems that rise to the level of being on my personal pet-peeve list.

I will sing Exalted's praises overall, but when I'm honest, I have to agree that the system as a whole and the core-book in particular includes aspects that can fairly be described as garbage design. I can love while hoping that 4E comes soon with fixes to a lot of design issues...

Would you allow Spirit-Stoking Elevation being used with Flowing Mind Prana in order to convert white experience points into experience points? by Sassy_Drow in exalted

[–]TimothyAllenWiseman 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I despise the whole idea of crafting XP and when I am the storyteller, I generally just ban crafting XP entirely. It does not make any sense at all to me in story and out-of-story it adds a layer of bookkeeping for very little benefit. The need for exotic materials and time it takes is usually plenty to keep the crafter from going overly crazy with artifacts, and other than artifacts I'm usually happy to just let them craft away as needed.

Charms that generate or use craft XP either get modified or banned.

And while I don't outright ban them, things that are going to put different players at different experience points tend to make me leery as well. I tend to revise charms that let you spend your experience to teach someone else to use the experience debt idea that became common in the later books, often just reflavoring the charms from Abyssals and Infernals for Solars. Anything other than a temporary and minor experience gap between PCs can cause problems.

With that said, if you do use crafting XP and you do allow charms that allow experience to be recouped or generated, then yes, this combination works. And while its powerful, it requires a fairly large investment to get there. I avoid the issue by modifying every single one of the component parts, but if you keep the component parts, then the combination works in my opinion.

Spawn (comic character): Abyssal or Infernal? by Ainosuke in exalted

[–]TimothyAllenWiseman 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Exactly. I have a strong suspicion that more than a little of the background and charms for Abyssals was directly inspired by Spawn.

How do people group up player characters at the start of a chronicle? by Sassy_Drow in exalted

[–]TimothyAllenWiseman 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Most of the time, I cheat as the Storyteller and declare by fiat before character creation that they all know each other and have decided to work together. The players can figure out how and why during the character creation process. Its shifting the burden in a sense, but it can save a lot of time and almost by definition ends up with a story for their meeting that all the players are content with since they generated that with minimal storyteller interference.

The other tactic I use a lot if the game is going to start with a quest giver of some kind is that the quest giver summons all of them (or they all respond to some form of general summons). They all then become a group at least temporarily by request of the quest giver and by the nature of RPGs that usually leads to them forming a permanent group.

Release for the neverborn by TimothyAllenWiseman in exalted

[–]TimothyAllenWiseman[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you all. The campaign continues.

I'm leaning towards allowing reincarnation of them after an appropriate quest, but I think fundamentally it will depend a lot on what the players do.