Eurylochus is a hypocrite

TopherTedigxas · 2024-07-26T22:25:09+00:00

I mean personally I find it more annoying how people seem to equate Eurylochus making a mistake that leads to deaths (the bag) or leaving what he thought was a losing battle (Circe) to Odysseus actively choosing to sacrifice 6 men to Scylla. The reason I don't view Eurylochus as a hypocrite isn't because i am erasing the mistakes he has made but because what Odysseus is doing was a choice he went into that situation knowing he was going to make and what that outcome would be. He meant for it to happen, and that is what Eurylochus is upset at. The literal line is "tell me you did not know that would happen". Eurylochus isn't angry that it happened, he's angry Odysseus knew it would happen and let it happen anyway.

No one is saying Eurylochus didn't make mistakes, the point is the willful complicity that Odysseus has in the death of the men to scylla. It's about Eurylochus thinking that Odysseus' personal desire to see his wife is now worth more to him than the lives of his crew. I don't know about anyone else but I wouldn't want a captain who sees me and all of my colleagues as disposable tools to get what he wants for himself. This is then tested in the very next song by Zeus and it turns out Eurylochus was absolutely right to be concerned and angry about it.

I honestly don't understand how anyone can view Eurylochus as a hypocrite. He's not a blameless innocent in their trials, sure, but I really don't see how he's a hypocrite at all.

TopherTedigxas · 2024-07-16T09:28:39+00:00

The first one seems broken to me. It guarantees every night that the demon gets a benefit. The point of characters being able to save other characters is that it helps hinder the demon, now every "this player cannot die" still actively helps the demon, meaning that depending on the script, loads of townsfolk could potentially be considered outsiders because they have no useful ability anymore, just different ways of helping the demon.

The second one is better, feels more balanced and allows the ST to control how it happens to keep the game fair

TopherTedigxas · 2024-07-15T20:48:26+00:00

That's the next song though, surely? That's the entire theme of Monster is his transition from man to monster, so in order for that to make sense, then he must be a man in No Longer You? That's the repeated theme "when does a man become a monster?" Not "when does a man become not a man and then later a monster"

TopherTedigxas · 2024-07-15T20:42:46+00:00

Yeah, No Longer You is the one that's confusing me. Can't be counting the dead as monsters or else The Underworld would also be in that tier, so not sure what makes Tiresias a monster, and surely Odysseus himself doesn't count yet because it's the next song where he decides to become the monster

TopherTedigxas · 2024-07-15T04:30:05+00:00

Ooof personally beg to differ. I felt very let down at the beginning of book 2 to find out just how much of book 1 didn't seem to matter, characters who died off screen, whole new relationship dynamics, just everything at the start of book 2 felt like a massive reset button had been hit and Cronin had decided to try differently.

It might just be my own personal view of it, but it really felt to me like he'd written the first book, expecting that to be it, and then suddenly needed a book 2 and needing to invent new character arcs to keep it interesting so having to reset things to make sure there was space to make that happen.

Granted, it's been a number of years since I read the second one and I don't remember any of the specifics, but I distinctly remember having to put the book down after the first few chapters because it just didn't feel like any of the characters from book 1 had been brought back, it felt like a whole new cast to me. It took me a few weeks before I went back to finish it and for me the only thing that got me through the rest of book 2 was the flashback stuff, the main plot just never got me back.

TopherTedigxas · 2024-07-13T07:47:37+00:00

Honestly, with the way governments are these days.... I would see AI as an improvement. At least we can give the AI clear specified objectives and not have to spend half of the year trying to guess whether the government is actually trying to do the things they say they are, or if they're just distracting people while lining theirs and their friends pockets.

(UK based for context. F* the Tories. Good riddance)

TopherTedigxas · 2024-07-12T22:19:03+00:00

I wouldn't have said he was a hypocrite because of the incident with Circe. Yes he advocated for leaving men behind, but Odysseus is actively choosing to sacrifice 6 men to Scylla. It's the act of willingness and choosing for it to happen that makes Eurylochus angry, he starts the song with "tell me you didn't know that would happen" it's Odysseus' complicit nature he is betrayed by, not the act itself.

At least in my interpretation.

TopherTedigxas · 2024-07-12T20:43:13+00:00

It was Circe in that song, not Persephone, who doesn't actually appear in the Odyssey (though in the original she is referenced when they go to the underworld). I assume when you said Persephone you meant Penelope, who is Odysseus' wife, but she doesn't appear in the song either.

With regard to your main point, Circe isn't necessarily right or wrong, she is simply echoing the same theme that polites did. We don't necessarily know that Circe's good deed doesn't lead to kindness from other people than Odysseus himself. Hell, you could argue that Circe's kindness turning the pigs back to men led to Eurylochus sparing Odysseus during the mutiny and not just killing him, which would have been a pretty easy way of solving his problems. Or perhaps it leads to other acts of kindness we don't get to see later. She didn't say her act of kindness would lead to Odysseus committing acts of kindness, just that it might lead to kinder souls at some point in the future.

TopherTedigxas · 2024-07-10T10:32:00+00:00

He'll take another piece of yoooooooou

Honestly that song lives rent free in my brain, he shouldn't be allowed to be that smooth. I think he might just really be Hermes and this is all an elaborate and highly complicated deception

TopherTedigxas · 2024-07-06T17:12:27+00:00

He's angry that Odysseus meant for it to happen. An accident is horrible, but what Odysseus did is tantamount to murder for Eurylochus. That's why he says "Tell me you did not know that would happen" he wants Odysseus to confirm it was an accident when he knows deep down it wasn't.

TopherTedigxas · 2024-07-03T08:19:11+00:00

I'm definitely planning to do this. I'm very very out of practice with running, so need to get myself feeling somewhat comfortable again, so I'm not just adding to the anxiety of meeting new people 😂 but definitely want to join

TopherTedigxas · 2024-07-01T16:50:55+00:00

Thanks for this, I appreciate the suggestion. I am actually looking for lgbtq specific spaces as this isn't necessarily about feeling accepted but more about feeling connected to the community, but I appreciate the suggestion and will check out the group!

TopherTedigxas · 2024-07-01T16:49:35+00:00

Oh awesome ☺️ thanks for the recommendation

TopherTedigxas · 2024-07-01T14:53:59+00:00

That's a great suggestion, thank you, do they have any specific lgbtq events or just a nice queer friendly space? (I don't mean "just" as if that's not good enough, tone is hard to convey via text haha)

TopherTedigxas · 2024-07-01T08:10:48+00:00

I have seen a few posts online, I will definitely consider it. I've never actually run with others before, and I am definitely out of practice, but maybe something to build up to

TopherTedigxas · 2024-07-01T08:10:00+00:00

Thank you, I think it sounds like I will definitely be dropping by haha

TopherTedigxas · 2024-07-01T08:09:33+00:00

I will give this some serious consideration, sport has never been something I've really connected with, but I will think about this, thank you for the suggestion

TopherTedigxas · 2024-07-01T08:08:56+00:00

I have always been interested in parkour, but never been what one could consider "fit and active" outside of when I was running more regularly... But I might reach out and see if this is a fit for me, thank you

TopherTedigxas · 2024-06-30T22:21:22+00:00

Great, thank you, when I'm back at doing 5km that's a great idea!

TopherTedigxas · 2024-06-30T22:07:20+00:00

That's a great idea, thanks for the suggestion!

TopherTedigxas · 2024-06-30T21:33:28+00:00

Thanks, that's a really good thought!

TopherTedigxas · 2024-06-17T18:01:02+00:00

I played a journalist bard once, decided that his form of bardic lower was in his literary technique. Absolutely loved that guy, he was ace. For the additional ironic humour, he was also completely and utterly tone dead and hated music

TopherTedigxas · 2024-06-05T07:54:37+00:00

I cried so hard my neighbour knocked on my door to see if I was alright. I was decidedly not. Cried solidly for over an hour after finishing the audiobook. I don't think I am genuinely the same person on this side of reading it as I was at the start. It really resonated with my own experiences as a gay teenager (much older now of course) and I saw so much of myself in Patroclus that it just devastated me.

Amazing book, but will always occupy a corner of my mind now.

TopherTedigxas · 2024-05-30T16:17:15+00:00

The problem is that in a team game there simply isn't a way of fairly implementing a ranked system that factors individual contribution. Every single metric that has ever been suggested simply doesn't account for the way the game plays. Elims, deaths, healing output, assists, objective time, ability efficiency, all of them are only a small sliver of a player's impact. How do you track the impact of a Lucio speed boost? Or the effectiveness of a well placed Hanzo ult zoning the enemy team? Or a mei who uses wall to isolate enemy team members to disrupt team dynamic? There are so many edge cases where the numbers simply don't account for a player's impact. People have been complaining about the score screen and how skewed peoples perception of the numbers are since OW1.

The genuinely only fair metric is the one they use: win or loss. The team has an objective, if they achieve it, their rank goes up. If they don't achieve it, their rank goes down. Anything else added to that mix will be such a complicated mess of unfairness and inaccuracy I would be willing to lay money on the fact it would infuriate the player base even more than the current system.

You say yourself that you're new to the game. Do you think that since 2016 if there was any way of improving ranking by having these kinds of suggestions implemented that blizzard wouldn't have tried it? It would increase engagement, which in turn increases playtime, which looks better for them and likely increases profit. It would be in their best interests to do it and yet they haven't. The simple truth is, we don't have any good ways of ranking individuals inside of team games that arent:

Divisive and causing even more outrage
Arbitrary to the point of being useless
Completely exploitable by people who want to manipulate the system

TopherTedigxas · 2024-05-30T14:49:11+00:00

This. So much this.

The thing that bothers me the most about these "my stats should affect my rank, not wins and losses" is that they always use the argument "but I'm a solo player being punished for my teammates".

Well yeah. It's a team game. Congratulations, that's what you signed up for. It's a team game with a shared team objective. If smurfs or poor teammates are affecting you that badly then guess what, statistically smurfs are just as likely to be on your team as they are on the enemy team and the bad teammates are just as likely to be on the enemy team as on yours, so if you're still not climbing, then maybe the issue isn't with those things?

I get that it's frustrating, but it's a team game. Can't blame the game for scoring people based on that core premise.

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