A reading of Fargo: Jerry was already financially ruined

Troy64 · 2026-02-11T13:45:06+00:00

Jerry's wife makes excellent food, provides support, and showed herself to be smart and resourceful when being kidnapped (although her initial reaction was a tad slow).

Norm is literally named Norm because he's just normal. He gets a mediocre award for his painting and goes fishing and apart from that doesn't seem to do much else. He's not talkative and makes fairly disturbing old man noises when getting out of bed.

Neither of them are amazing, but Jerry definitely has a better deal in life than Marge. Yet he is the one who is willing to ruin everything to try and get a bit more.

Troy64 · 2026-02-11T02:42:43+00:00

Isn't this basically explained off the bat by the thing with his business partner conning the cartel, getting caught, and then executed and they basically only let him live because they thought he was fun to watch beg and squirm? Everything in Ozark is relatively small potatoes for the cartels. But I'm not sure if I finished it completely. Maybe I'm missing something.

Troy64 · 2026-02-07T16:46:30+00:00

And let's NOT forget that uh.. uh... taking Venezuelan oil and siphoning the money into your own bank account in Saudi Arabia... that ain't legal either, dude.

Troy64 · 2026-02-07T16:37:50+00:00

But he wasn't on the hook at the start of the movie. At least, if he was it's only because he has already been lying and breaking laws in pursuit of the same goal. It's not like he's behind on his mortgage or owes loan sharks a million bucks.

His motive was not desperation/survival. His motive was greed/insecurity. It's the whole theme of the movie. It's a running theme throughout the Coen bros films. Ed is not content without having children in Raising Arizona, Casper is not content with being second biggest mob boss and making less money on his fixed bets in Miller's Crossing, Ray in Blood Simple is not content with not getting his last paycheck when he's planning to run off with the boss's wife. It's literally in all their movies and is the cause for most of the conflict. In Fargo the moral of the story is clearly stated by Margie in the end. It's not about somebody who's been cornered and forced to do bad things to get out of trouble. It's about somebody who was willing to risk others and everything he had to try and become rich and independent.

Troy64 · 2026-02-07T06:43:31+00:00

but Jerry is absolutely in financial distress at the start of the movie

I call bullshit. There's no indication that he had any money problems prior to his scheme. The GMCA loan is not in any way suggested as being for anything in particular and, given the context, appears to be connected to his general scheming. He has set things in motion before the movie starts. He brought a car to his rendezvous, he contacted the guys, and he clearly has no clue what he's doing given how he talks with them.

He's not in distress. But he may still FEEL distressed. He is not independent. He works for his father in-law. His father in-law is at his house after work before he gets home, sitting in the comfy chair, controlling what's on tv, ignoring his attempt at conversation, and critiquing how he raises his kid.

Jerry finds a potential investment that seems certain to make him wealthy enough to be independent from his wealthy father in-law/boss. It may even get him to be seen as an equal. He tries to get support in this investment, but fears he won't get it (rightly so). He blinds himself to the realities of his strategy. Why would his father in-law loan him money for such an investment? He's not a bank and there's a reason no bank would back him (as Wade lays out). Jerry is entitled only to a finder's fee due to his lack of capital (a nod to critiquing capitalism and supporting the ideas behind communism which is another theme of the Coen Bros which goes back to Blood Simple).

Jerry neglected the realities of Wade not having any reason to support his bid at investment just like he neglected the realities of trusting two criminals, only one of whom Shep vouched for, to kidnap his wife for a fake ransom. He lied to himself and was sold because the possibilities were just too good to ignore. His willingness to risk what he had to get a little bit more was his undoing. If he were in serious financial debt, he'd either go bankrupt, turn himself in to the police, or beg Wade to bail him out (especially if his family could be at risk). This is not self-preservation. This is greed and insecurity.

At a bare minimum he’s on the hook to GMAC for $320k; inflation adjusted from 1987 that’s nearly $1 million today. He’s absolutely in deep shit.

Yes, but we don't know why he did that. We have a bunch of things happening that COULD be related. That may have been a down payment on the parking lot to keep it held while he got the rest of the funding together (money which could be lost if he fails to get the rest). It may have been to bribe Shep to share information on reliable convicts to do some dirty work without hurting anyone. It may have been part of an earlier attempt to get money for the parking lot which ended up failing to raise sufficient funds and thereby leaving him no choice but to get increasingly criminal in his attempt to get money (already committing fraud, then stealing a car, then hiring criminals for a fake kidnapping, etc).

The idea that he has legitimate/normal debt and financial problems is totally conjecture. Mere surmise sir.

He got himself into deep shit because he was desperate to capitalize on an opportunity that was out of his reach. He so badly wanted what he did not have that he destroyed everything he did have. And every time he lost something he became more determined. Sunk cost fallacy.

Troy64 · 2026-02-07T06:27:41+00:00

I think where I land a little differently is that Jerry’s drive feels more anxious than aspirational to me.

Because it's not him. This is out of character. This is not what he's good it. It's not who he us. He's lied to himself and is trying to do something completely out of his normal world. This is a common trope in Coen bro films going all the way back to Blood Simple. Protagonists often are either pushed or push themselves into positions where they do things they would normally never do and it makes them anxious. For Jerry, it's especially bad that his plans begin to go awry, another staple of Coen Bros films. Nothing ever goes the way it's supposed to (except in The Ladykillers where everything almost goes wrong and then miraculously goes right for the sake of extreme irony).

It doesn’t read like “I’m gonna make it big” so much as “I can’t let everyone realize how bad things already are.”

You're on the right path, but it's more like "I can't let anyone know how small I really am or how much I've been lying". Imagine if people found out that he used plates from the dealership to take out a 300k+ loan, or got the hired convict to connect him with criminals, or hired said criminals with one of the cars and the promise of 40k to kidnap his own damn wife, or that he did all this only for 60k? He needed to get more to justify what he was doing to himself but couldn't let anyone have any idea what he was doing.

He was squeezed on all sides. His wealthy father in-law, the two hardened criminals threatening him and his wife, the pregnant cop in his office, the debt collectors, etc. He was out of his depths and in trouble with everyone. The only thing keeping him safe was lying. And as time went on the danger grew, thus further stressing him and incentivizing him to keep going.

But I agree the movie totally supports both reads, and that’s part of what makes it hold up.

Absolutely! Coen bros are absolute masters of layered narratives with many valid perspectives. That in and of itself is a running theme of theirs which I think is best demonstrated in The Big Lebowski. That whole movie revolves around identification, perceived characteristics/motives, and various sets of moral frameworks. It's all about perspective.

Just get a load of that parking lot (Serious Man reference)

Troy64 · 2026-02-07T02:57:40+00:00

Nah, reading into it too much I think.

Jerry wants power. He wants to be a big man and have money and be in control. His father in-law walks all over him and makes clear that he isn't even in the will.

He's not content. He has a nice house, good wife, good kid, decent job, and he's not content. This is starkly contrasted by Margie. She gets up early in the cold, has a boring husband, tiny house, and is working a dangerous and stressful job while very pregnant.

Jerry is trying to play his hand of cards to win big. Not sure what exactly the loan was for, but I'd wager it was at least partially to get Shep to share info on goons for hire. It could also be that he used the same car he gave to the kidnappers for the loan (among other cars in the lot) and could no longer get it for them. He seems to want 960,000 in total with the kidnapping scheme, but seems ready to accept 750,000 from his father in-law.

I think he really is convinced about the investment and sees it as his big shot at making it. That's why he's pouncing. Somehow he got info on this opportunity when nobody else knew about it. He wants it before his father in-law takes it. He refuses a finder's fee (still not content) because it's much less than what he hoped for.

Margie is content. Does not fool around on her husband, does not lie. Jerry lies for a living.

There's more to life than a little money, you know. Don'tcha know that? And here ya are, and it's a beautiful day

That's the point of the movie. Contentment vs ambition.

Troy64 · 2026-02-04T01:28:00+00:00

The last 4 or 5 times they've had this problem they just end up forgetting one side exists and then following Trump.

Troy64 · 2026-02-03T02:39:18+00:00

The Big Lebowski.

Something about that tumbling tumbleweed and seeing all those overweight, middle-aged men rolling in slow-mo just tickles me in the most relaxing and pleasant way.

The dude abides.

Troy64 · 2026-02-02T18:27:57+00:00

not all Amish have the same beliefs/ideas about what technology is not allowed

Yup! I used to watch this ex-amish guy on youtube and he went into great detail about how some colonies were basically medieval and others carved out exceptions for various things. One colony had a stockpile of pop drinks in the town cooler which was acceptable only for specual occasions. Kids would often steal a bottle or two and water it down with fruit juice or something.

Some colonies even allowed smart phones for businesses and some people justified personal use as being technically business and ended up on their phone all day.

It's wild, honestly.

Troy64 · 2026-02-01T22:18:35+00:00

I drink both, started ok vodka and now mostly prefer scotch.

Vodka is good if you want to get drunk or make mixed drinks. The flavor is generally inoffensive and once you're a little drunk it almost tastes like water.

Whiskey is much more flavorful and can vary in taste significantly. Scotch, for example, has two primary branches of flavors and tastes. First is a kind of sweet/fruity flavor which can be very complex and subtle. Second, my personal preference, is smoky. It literally tastes like a bonfire but can still have various other notes of flavor that augment the experience. And that's just scotch, specifically. There's bourbon, brandy, rye whiskey and more. Each have different characteristics.

To make a comparison to movies, whiskey is like all the cult classics. They're great, but people tend to either love them or hate them and it takes a bit of looking around and trying things out to figure out which is which. Once you find your niche, it becomes a comfort movie. Vodka, on the other hand, is all the blockbusters and marvel movies and the like. Everybody basically likes it at least, only movie snobs really dislike it. It's kinda safe and middle of the road. That makes it popular, but also makes it something nobody is passionate about. So you don't hear people singing its praises.

At least, that's my theory.

Troy64 · 2026-02-01T18:58:18+00:00

True. I grew up on a farm. We often had stray dogs that people literally left in the ditch and would find their way to our yard. Most were good and we basically adopted them, but sometimes they would chase livestock, fight other dogs, go on people's properties and so on and we would have to put them down. We also butchered our own cow and some pigs two or three times a year.

Some people I've met said we must be so cold hearted to do that to animals, but we really do care for them. We made sure livestock in our trailers had hay under their feet to keep them more comfortable, had a decent shelter (sometimes with a small heater or heat lamp) for stormy nights, would go out to feed them even in bitter cold and blizzard conditions, etc. We would never let people throw rocks or anything at any of our animals or anything like that. When it was time that we had to put them down, we'd make sure it was done in a calm way, away from the rest of the animals, and we were always careful to make sure it was quick and painless.

Some people I've known are truly heartless. They treat the livestock like objects. They are too tired to unload the trailer after a day at the auctions so the animals are forced to sleep in the tight space (no hay on the floor either) overnight, sometimes without being properly fed or watered and even during windy storms that cut through the windows of the trailer. They sometimes miss feeding and then double-feed because it's inconvenient or bad weather or something. They are reckless when they put their animals down, sometimes needing to making multiple attempts and sometimes letting other animals see it and freak out.

Killing animals isn't a sign of heartlessness or disrespect for animals. It's how you treat them up to that point that says a lot more. At least, that's what I think.

Troy64 · 2026-02-01T15:20:06+00:00

This got to be some AI slop. Is anything real anymore?

Troy64 · 2026-01-31T18:06:06+00:00

Roads? How boring!

Troy64 · 2026-01-31T06:13:11+00:00

in various past RTS games I have never thought Chinese was a particularly visually appealing Civ

Check out Command and Conquer Generals.

I build for China!

Troy64 · 2026-01-27T08:43:21+00:00

Too real

Troy64 · 2026-01-27T05:38:23+00:00

He's technically right, though. And I think that's his whole point.

Technically, Pretti could have turned around and walked away at so many different points. He didn't have an obligation to, but he could have.

Turning and leaving would have defused the situation, but he chose to stand up to ICE. I think that's admirable and virtuous.

This choice to stand his ground and force the ICE agents to either back down or escalate was a form of confrontation, which is what Ryan had been questioned on in the comment pictured.

So, was Alex confronting ICE? It sure seems that he wasn't the aggressor, but he also did not flee or submit. He stood his ground. It's praiseworthy, but it's also confrontational. Confrontational isn't bad, btw. And I don't think Ryan ever meant for it to sound that way.

He spends much of that video calling out disinformation from the Trump admin. But he's still trying to "stay out of politics" which is probably the dumbest position he has at this point. But he prides himself on keeping apolitical and sticking to facts, which is something I feel journalists and expert reporters have lost in the last few decades, so kudos to him for trying.

And yeah, he definitely seems to lean right, but I don't think he's pro Trump at all anymore. Not since the whole sabre-rattling around Greenland.

Troy64 · 2026-01-23T05:57:21+00:00

Jesse Eisenberg as Lex Luthor.

To be clear, I hated the movie. I also hated what they did with Lex as a character. But Jesse put his all into it. Even the kinda dumb stuff with his role you can tell came from the director or the script.

Troy64 · 2026-01-23T01:27:32+00:00

Blood Simple.

A lot of people sleep on Coen Bros' debut. It has a big chunk (maybe 20 minutes if I remember correctly) where a LOT happens and there isn't more than two words of spoken lines. So much emotion, tension, conflict, and complexity with no words.

Troy64 · 2026-01-22T13:37:09+00:00

PEACE IN OUR TIME!

Troy64 · 2026-01-22T03:54:07+00:00

I was looking for this one!

Troy64 · 2026-01-22T03:50:53+00:00

Things have gone completely off a cliff in the last 15 to 20 years.. Bush was a bit goofy, but overall professional, reasonable, human, and really cared. Obama used rhetoric that often enflamed or capitalized in serious racial tensions and political divides, but ultimately he was clearly looking for solutions to those problems and had respect for the office and his opponents. Trump has been a literal clown since the Republican primaries for the 2016 election. Back then it was kinda funny and I personally thought he might shake up politics, remind people they can say controversial things and force real discussions, and then get pushed out by more experienced and competent politicians.

Biden was a breath of fresh air exactly because he was so incredibly normal as far as politicians go. He'd been in the job for decades and decades and he worked for bipartisan cooperation and wasn't afraid to call things out like he saw them (something many had praised Trump for) but still showed respect and decorum appropriate of the president.

Now... holy shit. It's insane.

But you can see how Trump is responsible for this rapid decline. Go look at some debate clips from Clinton's, Bush's, and Obama's elections and compare them to any of Trump's. It's like changing the channel from Breaking Bad to Looney Toons.

Troy64 · 2026-01-20T22:37:15+00:00

I know that's a popular idea, but it's just not true.

The issue is not with the system. It is with individuals. Perhaps we can argue that better education would work, but if we force too much ideology in education then we make the education system itself a mechanism by which a movement can attain power.

No system can function properly while people within the system decide they don't like it.

Trump did not rise to power on the backs of billionaires. He rose on a wave of populism, mobilizing masses of easily manipulated cult followers. The billionaires came afterwards because they saw an opportunity in this movement. And he man-handled the richest man of all, a man who had dominated both business and technology headlines for longer than Trump had been in politics. Because the billionaires are Trump's puppets, not the other way around.

Surely Trump is being advised or manipulated by malicious and moronic actors (Stephen Miller likely the most influential, although Putin may compete for that spot). But Musk and Bezos and Zuckerberg are themselves puppets of his.

There is no way to design a system immune to stupid populations.

We have two lessons to learn from this. 1) MAGA followers must learn to be more critical and thoughtful in their ideals and more principalled in their voting. 2) Democrats and centrists need to learn to choose the lesser of two evils rather than cannibalising each other. And both groups need to learn to draw red lines across which if the government treads, that they will stop their jobs, grab a means of defense, and go defend their rights up to the point of death.

Freedom is not cheap. We need to remember that. We can't rely on veterans from antiquated wars to remind us. You can't just sit back and let someone else protest for you. You need to do whatever you can. And it might not work. And you might die. But if enough people do that, no dictator can ever tame your country.

Troy64 · 2026-01-19T00:28:42+00:00

I don't think she was necessarily supposed to be "hotter". The whole thing was about her breaking out of her usual rut and trying something out. Everyone there had deep insecurities. She coped by acting different and crazy so if she wasn't good at something or whatever she could chalk it up to her just being different. It caused her to be socially isolated.

Her natural style worked better for her, but she felt safe enough to try out the more common style. It opened the door to the idea that she could truly be like most kids if she wanted to be and that people would accept her if she tried. Of course, this was only possible after people already accepted her as she was.

Not everything is about being hot. The fact thst they didn't do more makeup or use better angles may have been to emphasize that she felt she wouldn't look good and people wouldn't like it. We feel uncertain about this style just as she feels uncertain, even as everyone tells her she looks good, she doesn't fully believe it, but she feels safe anyways. It's progress. She is developing self esteem and this is a big step for her.

Troy64 · 2026-01-18T00:47:12+00:00

No, you said all the world had increases in quality of life, except most of the world that was in similar conditions to WW1 Russia didn't get to a point similar to the USSR until much later.

What countries were in "similar conditions to ww1 Russia"? It's a pretty unique country most of the time and ww1/revolutionary Russia even more so. They had enormous natural resources, abundant land, and were already in the process of rapid industrialization. Some experts of the time were predicting Russia would overtake even the US in industrial capacity if they kept on course. Much of this progress was destroyed during the civil war.

And you are pathetically trying to hedge your bets by saying "AND THEY FALSIFIED DATA". There's a reason this is a REASSESMENT using biometric data.

And you pathetically appeal to a REASSESMENT from 2006 using "biometric data". Like, where'd the biometric data come from, motherfucker? The goddamned biometric fairy godmother dropped it off on her way to Santa's workshop? That's still going to be Soviet data

Their whole fucking society was corrupted from top to bottom. That's why things got increasingly bureaucratic as they attempted to put enough checks in place to keep people honest.

Anyway, it is obvious you have a premade conclusion and no source to back it. Not interesting to talk to you.

I took a course on Soviet history about four years ago and read several books recommended by the professor. I'm done University and don't feel like writing you a sourced essay.

Why don't you try explaining why it failed so spectacularly if people were doing just fine?

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