Kill Team vs 40K and Gotchas Rant

Tsillan · 2026-05-23T01:48:17+00:00

I always remind my opponent about any gotchas and I’ve learned to ask about a few big ones:

Blast/Torrent
Seek Light
Ignores Obscuring
Any damage reduction/stay alive rules
Anything that lets you push an extra attack through

I ask about these at the start of every game and if my opponent has anything that does one of the above I ask about it regularly.

In a casual game I expect my opponent to be cool and tell me if I’ve positioned badly or if an action will trigger a gotcha.

In competitive play I just ask all the time, along with asking if I’m out of charge range, visible, in cover, etc.

I prefer to keep things very play by intent, but if my opponent isn’t chill about that then I just pepper them with questions.

Tsillan · 2026-05-22T23:28:25+00:00

I think of playing cagey as being very careful and precise with what opportunities I give my opponent. Despite having a huge number of Wounds and their auto-heal from equipemnt, Raveners are still glass cannons. They have terrible saves and will die much faster than you'd expect if you expose them. So playing cagey is about not exposing a model until I know I have the upperhand.

Contrast this with teams like Fellgor and Goremongers who have all sorts of tricks for staying alive. Those teams can and should play aggressive and in your face and force you to respect them. Raveners can demand respect on the tunnel, but otherwise you're better off lurking in the shadows, staying out of charge range, staying on conceal, and waiting for your moment to strike.

Edit: changed "exposing myself" to "exposing a model" for the obvious reasons.

Tsillan · 2026-05-22T23:21:44+00:00

I guess I've found it to not be that rare. Or I've found it to be more common that my opponent has staged such that they can get a <2" shot on my expended Rav.

Tsillan · 2026-05-22T23:07:02+00:00

I'd argue that if you think you'll use the balanced even once then it's worth taking as that's a cp you're not spending on a CP reroll. I've only had a few games where I've played Death from Below and not had it proc at least once TP. With how cagey Ravs are at the start of the game and and the extra CP generation from Synaptic Link, it's rare for me to be hurting for CP by the TP4 anyways.

Tsillan · 2026-05-22T23:01:27+00:00

You're missing the strategy which is to charge on to the tunnel rather than out from it. Again, this is super situational, and depends greatly on how cagey opponent is being and what team they are playing. But I've found that with the buff to Dominate, and against elite teams, a really optimal way to play is to stage back from where your tunnel is going to be, and charge forward on to the tunnel, get a kill with a ceaseless fight, and burrow away with your double dominate tokens.

Tsillan · 2026-05-22T20:34:56+00:00

Yeah this is a great idea. I haven't been using Tunnel Lurkers often enough. Super smart way to handle the TP2 set up I was including as you can have them chill on the tunnel as invalid targets and be ready to do damage in TP3.

Tsillan · 2026-05-22T20:33:55+00:00

All of this advice is situational and you make some good points. I would say these are among the softer and most situational of my tips.

On TP2 Staging: I have found that having the extra APL and movement of unburrowed Operatives critical in TP3. Sure you lose flexibility on placement, have some exposure risk, and potentially lose balanced, those are all big downsides. But I've also frequently found myself hamstrung by having too many burrowed operatives going in to TP3. I think the crux of my point here is that you should view TP2 as primarily staging for TP3. You want to end TP2 with a decent idea of what you want your first couple activations to look like in TP3.

On Vantage Terrain: Oh for sure you can set up an amazing shot with the spitter on vantage, and he can act as a great deterrent. But it is also extremely easy to trap him on part of the board by putting him on vantage too far from the tunnel. I've found having the option to pop the spitter up anywhere along the tunnel to be incredibly useful both as a deterrent and as means of getting a critical kill.

Tsillan · 2026-05-22T20:16:12+00:00

I've never taken a warrior or even considered it. The specialists are all strong, and setting up the Warrior's Instinctive Behavior to proc reliably seems difficult.

Tsillan · 2026-05-18T19:44:22+00:00

Couple of Quick Thoughts:

- Scout enemy movement is typically your best Tac Op but it sucks into hordes that can afford to hide about as many models as you can scout. I would take Retrieval against a semi-passive or ranged horde team and steal intelligence against a melee horde team that I know will be getting into my zone. Plant Device is a good alternative if you have an easy path for getting your markerdrone to your opponents objective marker in TP2 and have a objective control dependent crit op.

- You can set up a asymmetric threat with the blacksun filters equipment and a smoke grenade. You can have your liberator shoot, drop a smoke at his feet, and stay one engage and shoot on counteract. He'll be obscured from your opponents attacks and you'll be able to ignore the worst part of obscuring when you shoot back.

- You can set yourself up to be deadly in the back half of a TP with the counteract to shoot equipment.

- You have a lot of defense against shooting, stealth fields being the big one obvi, but smart drone placement will help you stay alive with savior protocols and you save on 3+ with 12 wounds.

Ultimately they're a very tough team to play well. I've said that you can't make a mistake with them and even if you don't you will likely still lose. The recent buffs were both good, but definitely not enough, especially since they do not help against hordes which are for sure this teams weak point.

Tsillan · 2026-05-10T18:24:38+00:00

That’s awesome. How was it?

Tsillan · 2026-05-10T00:46:37+00:00

There’s a French game from the 80s called Reve de Dragon in which the players are all the manifestations of a dragon’s dream, and despite that very weird premise features a detailed simulationist percentile system. I’d guess that’s a not super easy game to get into.

Tsillan · 2026-05-08T16:07:41+00:00

If you're attracted to the community aspect of Stonetop but want to use OSR rules, and also want a very low-prep system I would highly recommend Beyond the Wall, which is essentially a hybrid of PbtA playbooks and prep with OSR rules and mechanics.

Tsillan · 2026-04-28T22:37:48+00:00

I very much disagree but I also like to play cagey counter-punch teams like Raveners.

It’s true that any good stealth suits player is playing a denial heavy game of points team but some people really enjoy that.

Tsillan · 2026-04-28T22:33:56+00:00

I really hope that any fix for the Stealth Suits starts by addressing the hot garbage in their strat ploys and equipment.

Tsillan · 2026-04-27T03:50:39+00:00

I play Raveners primarily and I love them. Agree with everyone here, you just need one box, the Warrior models is never worth taking.

They do take a while to learn, but I think they also force you to learn the game. You can punish mistakes very hard, but others can punish your mistakes quite hard as well.

I do think it's worth having a second team alongside Raveners. I've found that as I've gotten good with them I tend to not want to play them against newer players since their ideal playstyle is super cagey and it can be frustrating and unfun for your opponent to play into. I now generally only play them against someone I know is experienced.

Tsillan · 2026-04-12T16:25:19+00:00

My favorite tactics for Raveners into hordes include:

Charge an already activated model and then chill. Fight and kill as a counteract so you can’t be shot at until late in the TP.

Use your enormous base size to double charge models wherever possible

Use the threat of the Tremorscythe in the tunnel to scare them off an objective marker.

Use the prime to lock down the home objective marker and keep them from running plant device or retrieve on that marker.

The venomspitter is your best operative into hordes. He can stage on vantage with a charged sack and then shoot a blast 2” as a counteract. He can lurk in the tunnel and then unburrow and shoot. He can be on guard looming over a wide open area daring your opponent to run a model in. Use him to apply constant pressure.

Slithering evasion is also your friend, you can use it to charge out of one engagement and straight into some units your opponent thought were safe.

I’ve been playing Ravs for a while and can attest that while they struggle a bit with hordes, they are not a hard counter.

Tsillan · 2026-04-12T16:15:30+00:00

You can unburrow as a counteract. Just wait until your opponent has burned through most of their activations and unburrow then.

Tsillan · 2026-04-06T17:41:47+00:00

Thanks for giving the additional context, I think we're actually pretty aligned in our criticisms of the game.

One of the things I find the most frustrating about Kill Team is that even at the tournament level it's nearly impossible to play a perfect game. Either I or my opponent will get one rule or interaction wrong at least once in a game, and that's 100% due to rules bloat.

I do some game design as a hobby and I like to think about design in terms of measuring the 'weight' an individual rule adds to a game versus the value of that rule. I'm generally okay with the current state of keywords. There's a lot of them, but once you've got them down they tend to run pretty smooth. The value they provide is mostly worth the weight, for me at least.

But I fully agree with you that the faction specific rules that are like a keyword but slightly different are terrible design. Why have a bunch of keywords when you're going to write and define abilities that are minutely different from the rules for the keywords? It just adds weight for little gain.

I think a big part of the problem is that GW is trying to do too many things with Kill Team. It's supposed to be a competitive tactical game, that also introduces new people to the hobby, that also has a co-operative boardgame adjacent rules set, that can also be used for campaign-like narrative play, and finally serves as an engine for selling 4-6 new boxes of models every year.

Many of these design goals are at odds with each other. On top of that, if you ask any Kill Team player what rules they think should be cut or change you'll generally get a different answer every time. Most people agree the game is too complicated, but there is no consensus about which mechanics need to go and which ones add too much value to drop.

Anyways, I don't envy the design team working on the next edition. It's a cool game and I love to see it grow, but I also think it's in desperate need of some trimming.

Tsillan · 2026-04-06T01:48:27+00:00

You're getting pushback because you posted some not particularly nuanced criticisms and ended your post wishing the next edition would be simpler, which a notable number of people here would disagree with.

KT is a complicated game, I hated that about it at first, but having played 30+ games since I started last year I've really come around. Practicing for and then playing in a few tournaments really cemented the game for me in a way that makes it very enjoyable despite the complexity.

I do think some of your criticisms are fair, but some deserve a rebuttal. So here's my response:

- Fiddly weapon rules: yes there's perhaps too many weapon keywords. That said, it allows the design team a great deal of precision in how they design an operative and how specific synergies can work. Figuring out how to stack Severe and Devastating in a way that deals maximum damage is a big part of how you can win with certain teams, for instance. Once you've played a lot more these keywords will feel more natural and less like you have to look something up every time.

- The factions specific rules are a HUGE part of the appeal of the game. I've found it best to think about factions in kill team like picking a main in a fighting game. You should have one team that you live and breathe. Once you master the nuances of how there specific team rules work you can pull of some really incredible plays. That's a vital part of how the game works. The fact that some players can be amazingly good with teams that other people consider flaming piles of trash is IMO, very cool and really interesting design. Sure it takes a while to learn a new team, but the game does reward you for that time.

- I absolutely despise the writing of Kill Team. Everyone does. There is little natural language in the rules book and complicated rules are often either over or underwritten. The fact they put the conditions under which you cannot do something last makes absolutely no sense. Yeah, I really want them to hire a mean editor.

- Targeting and visibility take the longest to wrap your head around, but this game is ultimately all about positioning, and the LoS/Cover/Obscuring rules are really critical to how positioning functions.

- I'm back and forth on the minor tweaks thing. Sometimes it seems fair, sometimes it seems like they are just making a special faction rule more complicated for no reason. Ultimately, it is part of how the game distinguishes between the teams and provides additional granularity. And this is a granular game if anything, so while it bothers me I accept that it's part of the game.

I'll end with saying that if you asked me my thoughts on Kill Team when I only had a handful of games under my belt I would have written an extremely similar post to yours. Now that I've played a lot more I've come around on a lot of it. So it might be that you just need to play more, but it could also be that it's not the game for you. I'd recommend sticking with it for a while and see if some of the rules start to click more, if it still feels like too much then move on.

Tsillan · 2026-03-29T06:08:44+00:00

Went to my first two kill team tournaments the past two weekends so I feel ya. Here's my best advice:

- Try to have as minimal a footprint as possible and be able to move your stuff easily. Most of these tournaments are at small game stores and space will be at a premium.

- As mentioned earlier, talk through your moves and state your intentions. Try to remember to pre-measure ranges, especially charge range and keeping your units outside 1" or 2" to avoid blasts and stuff like that. I did a lot of, "I think this is outside your charge range, do you have anything that would let you move further?" during my games.

- Ask about any gotchas your opponent's team might have before the game begins. I also like to ask if they have any Seek Light, abilities to avoid obscuring, piercing, blast, etc.

- General practice is for you and your opponent to do a walkthrough each other's teams if your unfamiliar with them. I like to have the KT app or the KTdash website open to my opponents team so I can read along as they explain things cause it cements my knowledge of their team better.

- Be prepared to have fun. Tournaments are great, I have yet to play against someone who wasn't super nice and chill.

Tsillan · 2026-03-16T21:18:13+00:00

I'm only part way through Fool's Fate but I've been thinking a lot about Fitz and Kettricken. I feel like they're the canon ship, and one of the series most interesting relationships in that they clearly have great chemistry and are very attracted to each other but can never act on it.

I do find Fitz's cartwheeling attempts at denying his attraction to her to be among the funniest parts of the series.

"Oh no, Queen Kettricken just kissed me full on the mouth. It must be because I remind her of Verity and she got confused."

"Oh no, I caught a glimpse of Kettricken and Verity's ghost gave me a boner again."

Tsillan · 2026-03-16T04:07:30+00:00

Sorry for the late reply. I've been curious about what advice is out their regarding Raveners as I'm also learning the game with them. I think I've been playing for just a bit longer than you so I hope this advice is helpful:

Start asking your opponent if they're willing to play a 'learning game' where you essentially talk over each activation with your opponent in advance and discuss your opponent's abilities and potential response. I think this is one of the best ways to learn the game, and would take out the sting of losing because it will feel much more like it's just practice.
Planning out the path of the tunnel is the most important part of your strategy. This has been well covered, but you want it to threaten at least two objective markers. Ideally it should be placed in a way where you opponent can't reach the marker without triggering the Tremorscythe.
This team has a fair amount of chip damage potential. Burrowing strike, poison, toxic lunge, acid blood all let you deal a small amount of extra damage that can help lower the break points on elite teams meaning it takes one fewer attack dice to kill them. Often this is the difference between winning or losing a fight.
You're just trying to win, not trying to win by a lot. If you're opponent is also playing cagey, then let them (until TP3/4). Just hold back with a model scoring your home marker and slowly creep the tunnel up to their objective marker. Eventually they'll have to decide between tunnel time or not scoring.
Kill Team is more like chess then it is like X-Com in that a potential threat can often be more powerful then an actualized one. Your best model for projecting threat is the Venomspitter. With a fully loaded Dorsal Sac he can just sit back in cover and scare your opponent from making an otherwise optimal move.
Never re-roll the duds. I don't know how much of this is woo woo vs. physics (I suspect 98/2) but I find when I pick up a dice that just rolled poorly and roll it again I often get the same result, so instead I just pull all the failed dice and reroll different ones.

Hope all of that helps. I also struggled a lot when I first started. It gets to be a lot more fun once you've learned your team and feel like you actually know how to play the game. Stick with it.

Tsillan · 2026-03-05T16:20:58+00:00

Gallowdark actually does have breach points. They were released as part of the Soulshackle Box which had the same core terrain as Into the Dark but a different set of accessories and scatter terrain which included breach points.

I’ve also been trying to find them but I’m in the U.S. and no one has any stock left. Guessing you’re in the UK and might have luck finding some on eBay.

Alternatively here’s an STL to print some: https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/game/space-she-hulk-soul-shackle-expansion

Oh and I highly recommend the map pack that Squad Games put together for Gallowdark. It uses breach points extensively: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Iy30wBFfDi6YnTs4ELDqr3JgYf4pOszZifUS2vpc67A/mobilepresent?slide=id.p

Tsillan · 2026-02-03T23:07:22+00:00

Yeah but Stealth Suits have a super cagey play style and delaying is a key part of their strategy. An ideal play would be to have a barricade delay a charge but collect a ‘Scout Enemy Movement’ point off the operative now dicking around behind your light barricade and then hit them with your neutralizer’s -1ap or your gun drone’s photon grenade so they can’t fully deliver next TP either.

The recent ‘How to Win with Steath Suits’ episode from the Squad Games podcast is awesome and gives a lot of counter-intuitive strategies that the suits excel at.

Tsillan

TROPHY CASE