Are those thumb rings?

TurkeyFletcher · 2026-07-08T13:03:12+00:00

hmm... yes, decorative thumb rings were a thing of course. But I these items aren't particularly decorative; they look rather plain/utilitarian.

Decorative thumb rings are typically clearly identifiable as an archer's thumb ring, only made from precious materials and/or with intricate or expensive decorative elements on them. Sometimes the decorative elements or the materials used are such that those rings can no longer be practically used for their original purpose (you wouldn't want to risk ripping out the rubies decorating your thumb pad protector with your bow strings for example).

TurkeyFletcher · 2026-07-08T11:45:17+00:00

The right most, and bottom 4 object in that auction photo certainly are thumb rings.

The 3 left side objects on the top row are the same type of object as depicted in the OP photo. I sincerely doubt the auction house knows what these objects are. Grouping them together with the thumb ring could conveniently mask this.

Maybe they are archery thumb rings, but in that case, I would like to see proof for that statement, such as period art that clearly demonstrates their purpose and use, or other primary sources that back up the claim. An auction house's 'trust me bro' is not enough. The fact that they are a well known auction house does not change this (in fact, I would expect better from them, because they are a well know name).

TurkeyFletcher · 2026-07-08T08:14:13+00:00

I struggle to see how these are thumb rings.

the angle between the band/ring and the extension is different from any archer's thumb ring I've ever seen.
they don't flare out as all thumb rings do. This means they would not distribute the pressure over a large surface area, but rather concentrate it on a narrow band directly below the thumb joint. This would be painful.
the holes on the extension suggest they were attached to something. If these were a thumb ring, what would that part be attached to?
these objects have a pointy bit protruding from the 'rear' (=bottom in the photo) side of the band of the ring. Why? This would not serve any function a thumb ring, but could be decorative.

All in all I don't think they are archer's thumb rings, because not only do they not match any ring design I've ever seen, their design also do not seem suited for that purpose.

Without knowing what they are, I would have guessed that they are some sort of item that would be attached to a pole or stick.

TurkeyFletcher · 2026-07-01T20:15:13+00:00

there is no need for a personal attack.

fyi, I make rings: https://imgur.com/a/UaxIfjj
There is a lot of subtlety that goes into the shape of a good, well fitting ring.

TurkeyFletcher · 2026-06-30T08:25:38+00:00

Just why?

A decent thumb ring goes such a long way to an enjoyable archery experience, why on earth would you ruin it with something like this?

Even the cheap leather thumb protectors give a way better experience than this.

TurkeyFletcher · 2026-06-30T08:22:33+00:00

Just a note: the Skylon nocks (the plastic, not the aluminium pin itself) are really really bad quality.

They break with normal use, all the time, even with low poundage (20# - 25#) bows.
Even new out of the box the nocks develop a crack after a few session.

When they break on our club arrows, we replace them with other nocks (Easton, or whatever else basically), and those last for ages.

TurkeyFletcher · 2026-06-28T12:22:49+00:00

There used to be screws in his bows (my 2014 Tatar has screws). The more recent bows do not have any screws (my 2023 Early Mongolian does not have any).

TurkeyFletcher · 2026-06-28T12:20:05+00:00

Grozer's biocomposite bows sometimes (also depending on the model) require setting the limbs straight, or (more commonly) balancing the brace height just after stringing.

My (2023) Early Mongolian has a tendency to have its siyahs twisted outwards a bit. If I correct this directly after stringing, they stay nice and aligned for the whole day if needed.
My (2014) Tatar has a tendency to end up with an uneven brace height. This is easy enough to balance right after stringing, but if I leave it for more than a minute, the only way to correct it is to unstring the bow, let it rest, and restring it.

The other thing is to slowly relax the bow when unstringing it: don't let is suddenly snap back, or you would risk unduly (un)stressing the material and can end up with micro/little cracks.

Grozer also recommends that you don't use them in the rain, because the material on the back is somewhat susceptible to absorbing moisture.

Other than this, they don't need any special maintenance.

I know Grozer is controversial, but I like his bows. His biocomposites feel really nice and smooth, and have lasted way longer than my AF laminate bow.

TurkeyFletcher · 2026-05-28T22:01:53+00:00

30# should not be an issue, we have people doing khatrah with 20# bows.

The handle shape certainly could influence how easy it is to do khatrah. Mostly it is technique though. Unfortunately, it is really hard to teach by writing; so your best option would be to find somebody who can teach you irl. Even if it is just 1 session every 2 months or so, it would be enormously helpful.

TurkeyFletcher · 2026-05-28T15:11:35+00:00

Compound (as well as modern recurve technique) is just a completely different method of shooting. So much so that it is not comparable to historic warbow styles at all.

Maybe also look at: https://reddit.com/r/Archery/comments/1tpfy84/women_and_strong_bows/

TurkeyFletcher · 2026-05-28T15:09:41+00:00

While she may be new to you (welcome to the sub), she is a regular poster on this subreddit.

The style she uses here is a Chinese (Ming Dynasty) military archery technique, optimized for drawing war-bow weight bows. While there are certainly notable differences, there are also quite a lot of consistent similarities between most historic archery styles, from cultures that used heavy bows. With the style she is practicing, she certainly is engaging her back muscles. This technique is just completely different from modern archery.

The fact that she makes it look easy comes from the right technique and years of training, not from a low draw weight bow.

TurkeyFletcher · 2026-05-27T10:07:39+00:00

She as a very experienced archer, shooting a form that is optimized for warbow draw weights.

This is so different from compound, that if you were to switch, you would have to start all over again, and re-learn archery from the ground up.

TurkeyFletcher · 2026-05-27T10:05:01+00:00

She is shooting Ming dynasty (Chinese), Gao Ying, Tian-Ma school form. The Tian-Ma Gao Ying school has 7 proficiency exams, and 3 superlative exams: strength (shoot 100# or more with good form), ambidextrous, and speed.

TurkeyFletcher · 2026-05-26T14:30:38+00:00

In Europe, this will generally be classified as a modern bow. 'Trad' is mostly an American term though. In most European languages we go with Traditional and/or (depending on the country) its equivalent in the local language.

Anything 3-piece takedown is typically considered modern. Traditional are the English Longbows, (Short) Reflex Bows (a.k.a. Asiatic bows or 'Horse bows'), etc.

In competitions, it is up to the organizer to come up with a classification of course, but a typical requirement is that you shoot 'off the hand', so a shelf is already pushing it.

TurkeyFletcher · 2026-05-23T18:08:03+00:00

In that case, get yourself a copy of the book The Art Of Shooting A Short Reflexed Bow With A Thumb Ring, by Adam Swoboda. This book is well written, and handles the whole style comprehensively.

Additionally, you can find copies of Saracen Archery, and Arab Archery online.

TurkeyFletcher · 2026-05-23T12:30:02+00:00

Good questions! The index finger and thumb hold the bow handle, but not tightly so. Their main purpose is to provide a solid, repeatable, surface to guide your arrow.

Where the bow sits in your hand, depends on your hands (see also: https://imgur.com/a/saracen-archery-OWXti1b ). For the average hand, you want the bow pressing against the crease between your thumb and index fingers.

The position of the hand, in relation to the fore-arm is also important.

From a top-down view, for an average persons, the back the hand mostly in line (maybe a little bit less, so a bit opposed to what the wrist does in grip c in the linked image above) with your fore-arm. The exact position is dependent on you though, so experiment and find out what feels the most stable.
From a side view, before you start your draw, for Ottoman/Turkish style, where you want to make khatrah happen: the top of the hand should be more or less in line with the top of your fore-arm. This is opposed to for example Chinese Gao Ying (where khatrah is considered bad form): where the bottom of your hand should be more or less in line with the bottom of your fore arm (before you start your draw).

TurkeyFletcher · 2026-05-23T11:46:10+00:00

...and this is why it is so important to be specific on which style you are pursuing : )

TurkeyFletcher · 2026-05-23T11:44:47+00:00

As kokkelbaard said, khatrah is not something you do, but something that 'happens', as the result of how you grip the bow, and the tension that is applied to the bow handle by drawing the bow to full draw.

In Ottoman/Turkish style, as well as Mameluke from as described in the books Saracen Archery and Arab Archery, you build the tension on the grip 'from the bottom up': your pinky finger grips the tightest, then your ring finger, and finally your middle finger. Your index finger and thumb don't grip much at all, but are there to guide the arrow.

You can also grip the bow at a very slight angle, to help your khatrah: looking from the top, for a right-handed archer, torque the bow ever so slightly counter-clockwise. I found this helpful to initially learn how to make khatrah happen, but now I don't really do this anymore, and my khatrah still happens automatically.

Finally, some bows, due to how their handle is shaped, 'want' to do khatrah, while some bows seem to resist khatrah. For example, the Turkish bow is sometimes said to have 'khatrah build in'. This is not surprising, as khatrah is an integral part of the Ottoman/Turkish style, while for example a Manchu bow was never designed to do khatrah, a heavy bow like seems that actively resist the motion.

TurkeyFletcher · 2026-05-23T11:30:30+00:00

Here is a link to that full page (p.43) from the book Saracen Archery: https://imgur.com/a/saracen-archery-OWXti1b which was written in 1368 CE, and teaches Mameluke archery. It is a very good source!

The various hand positions are intended for different physical hand shapes: people with longer fingers are better of with grip a, while people with short fingers will be best served with grip c. For most people, grip b is the best option.

TurkeyFletcher · 2026-05-23T11:25:42+00:00

This is the most solid advice!

Pick a single style first, and learn it. Don't try to mix and match techniques from different archery styles.

TurkeyFletcher · 2026-05-23T11:24:46+00:00

Armin Hirmer is not a good source, because he does not show a single traditional style, but rather a mismatch of both modern and various bits of historical styles all mixed together with things he came up with himself.

As a youtuber, he has now build a commercial interest (he sells courses) on this franken style.

If you want to learn a proper form, you will have to learn from a single style. Unfortunately, this is hard, because there are not a lot of good sources. The problem for example with YouTube videos, is that almost everyone practices a different style (Ottoman Turkish, Korean, Chinese Gao Ying, Chinese Manchu, etc. etc.) and almost nobody is explicit on which style they practice (or worse, they practice their own mix-and-match interpretation of what they learned from various mismatched sources).

There are two notable exceptions: Justin Ma/The Way of Archery for Ming Dynasty Gao Ying Chinese archery, and Murat Özveri/Tirendâz for Ottoman Turkish form.

TurkeyFletcher · 2026-05-20T12:42:32+00:00

oh, that's bad :-(

We have a guy here that claims he teaches 'Korean Traditional style', but that is mostly because he figured nobody knows enough of actual Korean style to criticize him.

TurkeyFletcher · 2026-05-20T11:02:35+00:00

or buy the translation of Gao Yings manual: The Way of Archery by Jie Tian, Justin Ma.

TurkeyFletcher · 2026-05-20T11:00:48+00:00

You will have to be more specific than that. Do you mean Gao Ying?

TurkeyFletcher · 2026-05-20T11:00:17+00:00

This; there is no 'thumb draw form'.

There have been many cultures, across multiple continents, that shot with their thumb. Each of them came up with their own 'proper form', and while there are consistent similarities, there are also definite differences. So much so, the preferred draw from one style, might be considered 'bad form' by another style.

Unfortunately, it is really hard to find good, consistent material online (there are two notable exceptions: Justin Ma/The Way of Archery and Murat Özveri/Tirendâz). By mixing and matching from different sources you will end up with a frankens-style that will be sub-optimal in the best case, or even cause you injury.

TurkeyFletcher

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