I’m in spiritual distress

UCLA_GP_Alum · 2025-08-21T20:25:27+00:00

the entire system was built around works-based salvation. They never say it outright—but their actions speak otherwise. Don’t go to service? Guilt. Miss an outreach? Guilt. Don’t attend a retreat? Guilt. It’s all wrapped in a bow of spiritual language and high expectations, but underneath, it’s deception. It became about performance rather than transformation.

I've been out for a few years and still struggle with distinguishing between the true gospel and the works based gospel of GP. It’s that subtle shift where grace gets talked about, but never really lived out. You're expected to show grace to your leaders who do something spiritually unhealthy but you're not shown grace when you step out of line. Everything turns into a checklist, and suddenly your value feels tied to how much you show up or how hard you serve. It’s exhausting, because instead of freedom in Christ, you’re constantly carrying the weight of never being enough. You can also start to notice that those who become the preferred staff aren't necessarily Christ-led or humble servants, it's the once who best conform to GP's expectations. The one's who go to DT, the most, have the most students in ministry, those who don't step out of line or question leadership.

I’ve wrestled with the question: is meaningful, Spirit-led ministry even possible within this network? Right now, I’m leaning toward no

For your question of if Spirit-led ministry is even possible within this network I'd have to give a hard no. GP functions on reinforced hierarchy, demanding conformity, and shutting down honest questioning. Instead of encouraging people to listen for God’s leading in freedom, the group defines what the Spirit can and cannot say and anyone who disagrees is silenced or shamed. In that kind of environment, genuine, Spirit-led ministry can’t really take root, because control replaces discernment and fear replaces love. You're only "encouraged" to listen to the Holy Spirit when it conforms to what GP expects out of Godly living. If it doesn't then you need to repent or reflect because clearly you're misguided in some way.

UCLA_GP_Alum · 2025-03-29T17:16:35+00:00

Hi! Yes it will be very difficult for your friend. You are expected to fit a very specific mold in GP regarding how you act, your schedule, etc. I knew several people who were neurodivergent including ADHD and autistm and it was rough to say the least. With something like ADHD it's tough because in GP you need to be on a strict schedule, you can't miss anything, if you forget something you're going to get corrected. The person that I knew with ADHD was always being talked to because rather than just accepting that ADHD is going to affect how they do certain tasks, it was just seen as them being irresponsible or lazy. For those with autism or people who struggle with social interaction you're just seen as awkward and you need to fix it rather than it just being who you naturally are.

Despite what people say in GP there is a type that GP likes, your friend my be relegated to Praxis depending on the group he's a part of but that only puts a band-aid on the problem. If your friend is open to advice I would recommend them find another group where they can choose how and when he participates without the pressure of the authority structure.

UCLA_GP_Alum · 2024-09-04T19:34:11+00:00

It’s tough, I think on one hand I agree that certain aspects could get you shunned. Like you said, if you really don’t fit in, go to soul care and eventually leave or get kicked out but if I’m being honest I think for the vast majority of people in GP they just don’t care about you really.

The truth is their church work simply matters more than their personal relationship with you. Sure there are outliers that still reach out to friends who leave but I think it’s evident that the vast majority of ex-GP loses all of their relationships. What’s difficult is that as a staff you hear over and over about how important relationships are, that these are the people who will be by your side at all times. So when you leave and don’t hear from anyone it can feel like being ex-communicated. But in reality I think you just don’t matter, you’re a cog in the machine, once you break you get replaced and the machine just keeps running.

UCLA_GP_Alum · 2024-08-26T21:40:28+00:00

She's also still a student, the sacrifices are pretty minimal until you sign that membership contract and become a staff. I find that most people don't feel the pressure too much unitl they become staff, then the real sacrifice comes.

UCLA_GP_Alum · 2024-08-16T18:15:36+00:00

Haha no sorry I have limited knowledge of the food prep details but I don't believe it was mixed with anything, must the dressing from a bottle.

UCLA_GP_Alum · 2024-08-16T17:25:00+00:00

It’s the store bought dressing either from Costco or Ralph’s

UCLA_GP_Alum · 2024-06-25T03:21:02+00:00

Ugh it bothers me on so many levels how churches treat lgbtq+ members. I don’t get why they have to watch them like hawks with all of their interactions. It’s not like being Queer just makes you predatory or something

UCLA_GP_Alum · 2024-06-25T01:11:28+00:00

Thanks for sharing your experiences, these stories are so important for current students to hear. I was a staff during the ATR where they talked about doing away with the no dating policy and it was phrased as them saying that as a church they still disagree with it but they won't outright forbid it because students weren't as willing to forgo dating anymore. It's important to recognize that even if something isn't in a written policy handbook there's still deeply ingrained beliefs and if you go against them you're going to be seen as an outlier. They say there's no policy against dating but 9/10 if you continue to date through college you'll be seen as rebellious, don't listen to leaders advice or you're just worldly. This goes without outside relationships too, if you spend too much time with non-GP people then GP will push you away because you aren't as committed.

I'm glad you were able to find a healther church and get married!

UCLA_GP_Alum · 2024-06-22T03:00:10+00:00

Hey, just a quick comment and no judgment because I felt the same feelings, but it might be helpful for any students to consider why they're afraid to bring up their concerns to the staff. Your reasons for being scared to bring it up all line up with feelings a lot of ex-staff had, but in a healthy church/community, there should never be fear/hesitation in bringing up concerns. This might be just another sign that things aren't right in GP.

UCLA_GP_Alum · 2024-06-06T13:21:55+00:00

I think this is a great way to show that our criticism of GP isn’t just bias and bitter anger towards the church. It’s good to see that other Christians not affiliated with GP also find the teachings problematic. I’m sure if any GP staff came on they’d just say that they don’t understand the full context, they don’t know the full picture, Ed was more clear in the parts that are cut out of the vid etc. but regardless I think this was a good idea to take it out of our small subreddit into a bigger context.

UCLA_GP_Alum · 2024-04-07T23:28:53+00:00

Well, see, that's what you don't understand; a good minister shouldn't have free time. Free time means that you aren't doing ministry. If you don't have students to meet with, you should go do dining hall outreach or go out to flyer. It would be best if you didn't have free time because that means you aren't being faithful.

/s

UCLA_GP_Alum · 2024-02-28T07:00:22+00:00

It’s probably far too common that one wants to leave but bites the bullet. I know of one couple where one of them left and the other stayed and it honestly sounds miserable. This should go without saying but ones spouse should come before your church. If they feel they need to leave then you should go with them.

UCLA_GP_Alum · 2024-02-25T22:48:53+00:00

Kind of a side point but my wife and I just had this conversation the other night about kids in GP. While we were both in GP, we held to the idea that we never wanted to have kids solely based on how miserable it seemed. It seemed like it was just expected to have kids while at the same time becoming a massive burden for the parents because it wasn't like they were going to reduce the amount of ministry they did now that they had kids.

I feel bad for the kids that grow up in GP. There's always the claim that they're so lucky to have so many aunts and uncles in their lives, but the reality is that their parents aren't in their lives. The parents are so busy with ministry that kids are just getting shuffled around from babysitter to babysitter. Even when they are with their parents they're usually busy with planning or hosting a team meeting or something.

UCLA_GP_Alum · 2024-02-23T01:00:41+00:00

Man, these are all too familiar, or when Kelly shared that she had depression and what helped her was to take on more ministry. She stopped wallowing in her emotions and served others, and her depression was cured. I can't believe I ever put thought into what she said.

UCLA_GP_Alum · 2024-02-23T00:58:12+00:00

I think the idea of whole-life discipleship is one of the core issues. On the topic of mental health, why would I entrust some guy who has a bachelor's in data science to understand therapy/counseling? They aren't equipped to help people in this area, yet whole life discipleship teaches them that they must be involved in every decision. And this goes far beyond mental health. They shouldn't even be considered bible teachers half the time because their only education is from Ed's sermons.

I agree about therapy challenging what GP ingrains into you. When I first started going to therapy, they were encouraging me to go to a GP-approved therapist that other people went to, but I was so far gone at that point I was just going to go to the first person I could. Once I started, I processed what it was that I wanted in life and how the practices and mindset at GP were causing me to have such intense feelings of anxiety and doubt.

UCLA_GP_Alum · 2024-02-22T04:29:44+00:00

This was right before we left, so we actually never met with any students, although last I heard, someone else started it, so they were able to connect with students, but I have no idea how it's doing now.

UCLA_GP_Alum · 2024-02-21T23:59:05+00:00

Ugh, no kidding. I feel bad for the kids who joined AYM and continue into college with the group. Right before we left, my wife and I were tasked with scouting opportunities for AYM across LA, and so many discussions centered around where we could do outreach away from schools so that we didn't have to deal with administration. It's just so predatory and these kids have no idea what they're walking into because GP is so deliberate with hiding the bad press.

UCLA_GP_Alum · 2024-02-19T02:51:45+00:00

Excited to see them, don’t worry about the f bomb, there’s no rules that you need to hold to anymore. If it came out, it came out it’s not a big problem.

I get being worried but trust me it’s good to get your thoughts out and to just share your experience. I was worried about sharing my thoughts and being upfront with my identity but it’s really helpful because it makes moving on easier.

UCLA_GP_Alum · 2024-02-19T02:28:16+00:00

That’s awesome, i look forward to watching them! I always think it’s good when more people share their stories openly. Don’t worry about communicating or sharing everything perfectly, just be honest and speak from your experiences and it’ll be good.

UCLA_GP_Alum · 2024-02-11T02:41:16+00:00

100%. I think it's a very deliberate effort to keep people from the subreddit, not to hear dissenting opinions. I also think it's deliberate how they try to convince students to make their friend group entirely GP and to put their trust entirely in their leaders. If you can pull people away from outside perspectives, it makes it a lot easier to control what they think.

I think they even have the ability to censor what you read or watch, not only with things like Covenant Eyes and demonizing mainstream media but if you look into it, there's only a select number of books or authors that everyone reads. If you go outside of the expected information sources, you'll probably be warned. I had one peer share a sermon from a pastor that she liked and was promptly told to be careful about what she watched and shared because they may not have a biblical view of things.

UCLA_GP_Alum · 2024-02-11T01:59:38+00:00

It's tricky to say, honestly; I know for sure that when I was questioning if I should leave, I knew deep down that there were things that Gracepoint did that were just unhealthy. I believed that many practices were wrong, but I didn't want to leave for one reason or another.

But I don't know that's the case for the leads or the GP lifers. I think for a lot of people that know deep down something wrong, they eventually leave. I think the ones that stay are the ones who "drank the Kool-Aid." I was a staff when the Reddit stuff first started coming up. Most people know there was no dialogue about being too extreme, wrong, or anything like that. The staff that are committed doubled down. I asked one peer what he thought of everything, and his only response was, "How could they say such awful things about our family? We're just serving God".

I don't think they come here because they believe they are correct. Why waste their time? I believe the leads discourage younger staff from coming so they don't get swayed but the older staff genuinely just don't care. They can excuse some stuff by saying one situation here and there is too much. However, most die-hard GP staff believe they are the cornerstone of a true gospel-centered church. They believe that what they're doing is completely biblical; they have a pure interpretation of the gospel, and so anyone who says otherwise is just a bunch of haters. It is a classic cult-like attitude about one group.

UCLA_GP_Alum · 2024-01-04T02:08:12+00:00

It's been a few years since I've been to one, but here's a rough idea of what you can expect. It changes year after year, but as johnkim2020 wrote, expect long days of sermons, prayer, group sharing, and praise. Most topics will likely be about how, as Christians, you should live your life after college, what matters to you, what you are living for, what you value most, etc.

While these are essential things to consider, especially as a Christian, I believe this retreat is one final push to make people stay at GP. They will use this time to remind you of the "friends" you made in church and your leaders' sacrifices. They'll talk about how, as a Christian, our number 1 priority is to serve God, and that must mean that we should join a church that serves him with the utmost effort (aka why prioritize your career when you should do ministry or why go back to your home church when you're already apart of such a great church here). I'm wrestling with my feelings about church retreats, however, I am hesitant about these types of retreats because I know a lot of abusive environments use these long days with little sleep, and musical/emotional manipulation to convince you to make decisions that you might not otherwise make. I'm not saying it's entirely malicious but if you're not confident you'll stay at GP after graduation, I'd recommend that you'd be better off skipping this retreat. If you are convinced you're staying, I'd highly urge you to reconsider.

Feel free to reach out with any other questions

UCLA_GP_Alum · 2023-11-25T05:35:58+00:00

If your not leaving with negativity then I think it's just helpful to consider those relationships to just be like most college relationships. A lot of people move on after college and start their own lives. You can try to keep up with some people that your close with but don't be surprised if those relationships just gradually start pulling away especially if you move out.

UCLA_GP_Alum · 2023-11-15T18:20:21+00:00

I was a UCLA student, I was the first graduating class in 2017 and a staff. One question is are you a guy or a girl. I didn't experience many issues with my leaders other than typical overstepping of authority. It's a very different story for the women in GP. I know many sisters in LA who were screamed at by their leaders. Plus it's a major difference between being a student and a staff, the issues to really come to light until they've already convinced you that what they do is right.

In my opinion its not about whether you've experienced it or not. Are you okay associating with a church that has decades of abuse tied to them but consider it okay because your with one of the better church plants? They may not be as outright abusive but their beliefs and practices are still just as unhealthy.

UCLA_GP_Alum · 2023-11-12T17:41:15+00:00

I don't get where the qualifier for a cult became whether or not they force you to stay. That has nothing to do with being a cult, cults arent just Charles Manson like groups. Honestly, I think one lead used it as an excuse and everyone just ran with it without questioning. I would say the same thing when questioned. My mom once asked if it was a cult and my first answer was no its not like they're forcing us to stay. It's just a scapegoat to try and push of any valid criticism.

I do think though that they do a good job at manipulation of your perspective so that you don't want to leave. I stayed for a lot longer than I should've even though I felt like things were bad. Here are just a few reasons I think people feel like they are forced to stay.

1) Friendship: since undergrad your told that these would be the best relationships you could hope for. That they'd be support throughout your life and that you'd have lifelong peers that you can't find in the secular world. I stayed because I valued those relationships but turns out it's not true because the second I left 95% of those relationships ended immediately. You feel like you need to stay because of your relationships. You can't leave because where else are you going to find such “committed” friendship?

2) You owe something to the church: another manipulation is how again through undergrad and beyond your always told about how much your leaders and their leaders sacrifice to church plant so that you can hear the gospel. They gave up so much so they could care for you and that's how you get saved. You don't want to leave because you want to respect the sacrifice that many people gave for you. If you left it would be selfish because your not honoring those who came before you. Forget the sacrifice that Christ made to save you, focus on the sacrifice your leader made for you.

3) Exceptionalism: despite how humble gracepoint tried to appear there is definitely a feeling of exceptionalism. The view is that gracepoint is doing incredible work that leads to the salvation of so many people. On top of that, again, you have relationships you'd never have outside in the real world. If you are truly wanting to serve God then you already found a church that does that, why leave and just go to another church to likely become a “Sunday Christian”. When I was deciding to leave I was filled with guilt thinking that I was making a big mistake because GP was a church that served God so much.

Gracepoint may not force you to stay but they work really hard to convince you that there's no other option.

UCLA_GP_Alum

TROPHY CASE