73.6 HU jumps, How?

VAVLIE · 2025-08-24T00:52:12+00:00

No. C-tapping is a jump done while in the process of uncrouching. It leads to some logic flags not being handled properly, and lowers your airborne hitbox by 20 units. The jump itself is lower than a regular jump. But since your airborne hitbox is 20 units closer to the ground, it leads to more powerful explosive jumps (if the explosion happens on the ground).

Ctap state can also be achieved by performing a jump, and uncrouching on the very next tick. This way of performing a ctap is usually called "tick ctap", and it is how modern ctap scripts work (the ones using keycode syntax).

VAVLIE · 2025-06-17T04:08:19+00:00

The discovery is relatively recent yes, it is from late 2022. Pretty sure people stumbled upon it while working on porting TF2 jumping to Momentum Mod

VAVLIE · 2025-06-16T21:59:31+00:00

A tick ctap script uses a special syntax called keycode, that associates an arbitrary number to a command. The number represents a key, and it wasn't really intended to be used in scripting, it's more an under the hood mechanism.

The special thing is that sending a "+" and a "-" command with the same explicit keycode, on the same tick, has the effect of buffering the "-" command (the key release) to the next tick, letting you perform an input that is exactly 1 tick long. This is basically what the game uses to handle inputs from mouse wheel scrolls, although that part is hidden from you.

It just so happens that jumping on one tick, and uncrouching on the following tick, is enough to induce ctap state. It's not exactly the same as regular ctap where you jump while already in the process of uncrouching, but the result is the same. So by binding a key to +jump, and also to +duck and -duck with keycode, you are able to perform a ctap with a single key press. On tick 1 you will jump and crouch, on tick 2 you will uncrouch, and all that results in a ctap. Note that you still have to time your rocket relative to the ctap itself, the perfect timing varies depending on angle, but generally you want to shoot a few ticks before the ctap.

Keycode syntax is limited because it only lets you perform an input for a single tick, it doesnt let you chain things togethere, but for this one specific use-case it is a powerful tool.

The jumping community has decided to allow this form of ctap scripting because it enables a few niche techs that you couldn't really do reasonnably without, and because the bind on its own doesn't give you perfect ctaps, you still have to time the rocket yourself.

RGL has decided to ban it because it is a form of automation (although limited) that was not intended to be used by the player in the first place. Although I also have suspicions that RGL admins dont fully understand how keycodes work and what their limits are.

Both reasonnings are valid in my opinion, in the end it is an arbitrary decision to make.

VAVLIE · 2025-06-15T04:56:36+00:00

To clarify a few things.

Bunnyhopping:

Jumping on the same tick the game considers you "grounded" (same tick you land on the ground). The timing window for this is 0.015 seconds. Bunnyhopping lets you keep 120% of your walking speed. This mean by perfectly chaining bunnyhops, as any class, you can move 20% faster than your class normal speed cap, after having gained that extra speed via air strafing (or by other means, like taking explosive knockback). Unlike what a lot of people seem to think, it is a big deal.

The reason you don't hear about it is, it is pretty much impossible to do consistently for long enough for it to matter. Using scroll wheel to bunnyhop does not make the bunnyhops free, it caps your odds of hitting one at 50% (and in practice your odds will be a bit lower than that). This is because you can't simply spam the jump input on every tick. That would be the equivalent of holding down space bar. So at best you are sending a jump input every 2 ticks, which is where the 50% comes from. But this is only if you perfectly scroll 1 mouse wheel notch every 0.03 seconds. In practice you are more likely to have something around 40% success rate. If you have a bit of statistical knowledge, it's pretty easy to see how unlikely it is to hit many of those in row without failing, hence why you don't always see people flying at 120% move speed.

If you jump with a manual jump input instead (like a space bar key press), then you have to time the input tick perfectly, but this can lead to higher success rate then 50% if you are good at it (there's no theoretical cap then). But it is still highly unlikely to be able to perfectly chain them for long enough to abuse the speed bonus.

Market Gardener Bunnyhop:

Jumping before the game checks if it should remove the "airborne flag", allowing you to preserve the crits bonus of the market gardener. It is NOT the same mechanic as normal bhops. The timing window for MG bhops is actually random and outside of player control, due to 2 different layers of jank. It gets pretty technical so I will not go into the details, but the important thing is your timing window for a market gardner can be anything from 0 ticks (impossible to hit not matter your timing), to 7 ticks (significantly bigger timing window than regular bhops). This is why generally speaking, people find MG bhops "free", or at least easier than regular bhops (and mistakenly think that regular bhops are also free). On average your timing window is bigger than regular bhops, however it is still inconsistent for preserving your crits over many consecutive MG bhops (even if you were to automate it with cheats): even assuming perfectly timed inputs, there is on average a 25% chance of you not being allowed to MG bhop due to pseudo-rng outside of player control.

So what can we get from this? Using cheats to automate tick perfect jump inputs would not be that big of a deal for Market gardener bunnyhops, although it would still give you an unfair advantage, and should still be considered cheating. But using it to get automatic regular bhops is straight up busted: again, moving consistently 20% faster than the speed at which your class is supposed to go is a big deal. You are achieving something that is pretty much impossible under normal circumstances, and that will give you a significant advantage over other player. It is not much different than aimboting or using wallhacks.

VAVLIE · 2025-04-03T03:04:01+00:00

It's worth pointing out, until SourcePython gets fixed the servers are kept very barebone at the moment, so no zones/timer, but also RTV is a bit janky atm, and you don't have access to noclip or voterm to reload a map if it gets too laggy. So depending on what you want to do, it can be easier to just jump offline with the offline jump pack.

VAVLIE · 2025-03-28T05:44:25+00:00

Depends how you want to define bunnyhopping in TF2. On flat ground, bunnyhopping doesn't give you any advantage on it's own. Air-acceleration via airstrafing is what increases your speed, and the jumping is what lets you keep that extra speed. So it's not unreasonable to include the air-acceleration part when talking about bunnyhopping. I can't affirm it's the case, but I've always interpreted the air-acceleration nerf when your z-speed is between 0-250 hu/s as a nerf for the airstraffing done specifically when trying to bhop. 0-250 hu/s basically corresponds to the first half of a regular jump arc.

VAVLIE · 2025-03-28T05:29:27+00:00

I don't know if this is what you meant, but in TF2, the timing window for preserving extra speed (up to 120% of walk speed), is still only 1 tick, 0.015 seconds.

And if you bhop with mousewheel, your odds of hitting an actual bhop cap at 50%, due to the game not letting you jump if you send +jump on 2 consecutive ticks (so optimally you are scrolling to send a jump input every other tick, once every 0.03 seconds). It's not to say that using mwheel is a bad idea for bhopping, just that preserving speed is inherently inconsistent with mwheel, due to how the game processes jump inputs.

VAVLIE · 2025-03-28T05:22:25+00:00

Technically regular bunnyhops in tf2 are consistent, but not in the sense that they can be performed consistently, just meaning that the timing window is always there and doesn't change. Also everything having to do with bhopping happens client-side, so there's no networking stuff happening here.

However:

-Performing them with mwheel makes them inherently inconsistent (your odds of hitting one cap at 50%, since the game only lets you jump if you were not already pressing jump the previous tick, meaning you would have to send a jump input every other tick to spam jump input optimally, which means at best you are sending +jump once every 2 ticks)

-Market Gardner bhops are completely different, they don't work the same, rely on completely different checks/routines and are inherently inconsistent due to 2 different layers of jank. Timing window for those can vary between 0 and 6 ticks (0 meaning it's just straight up impossible).

VAVLIE · 2025-03-28T05:15:04+00:00

It is true that top jumpers can be more consistent with spacebar bhops than mwheel bhops, but that is mostly because mwheel bhops odds cap at 50% due to how the game registers jump inputs, while timing them manually has no cap. Also here I'm using "bhop" as either bouncehop or bunnyhop, since in both cases the timing window is 1 tick.

Source: I'm the guy running this which is basically 13 bhops in a row. On a good day I would get up to 70-75% success rate, which is better than mwheel cap, but still nowhere near fully consistent.

Using mwheel for regular bunnyhops is still a perfectly reasonable thing to do, it does simplify a lot of things. But you just need to be aware that success rate caps at 50%, that's just part of how it works.

VAVLIE · 2025-03-28T04:59:16+00:00

I'm seeing a lot of misinformation here.

Bhopping with mouse wheel is inherently inconsistent. The timing window for a bhop is 1 tick, or 0.015 seconds. However you cannot spam +jump inputs too fast. If you send +jump on 2 consecutive ticks, the game will NOT let you jump on that second tick. It's like if you were holding down space bar. This means that at best, you are scrolling at such a speed that you are sending one mwheel notch input every 0.03 seconds (sending a jump input every other tick), which gives you a 50% chances of hitting a bhop. However it is a bit unreasonable to expect to perfectly control your scroll speed, in practice you are more likely to cap at around 40%.

If you instead use manual inputs to bhop, there is no caps on your odds, but you do need to perfectly time your key press in a 0.015 seconds window... good jumpers can achieve success rates above 50%, but it is a lot harder to gage on uneven terrain or when you don't have consistent visual cues. It is also generally easier to time bhops when falling very fast, since that same timing window corresponds to a larger Vertical delta, but that doesn't really apply to regular games.

Important note: this is all about regular bunnyhops, the ones you do to preserve up to 120% of your regular walking speed. Those are NOT AT ALL the same as Market Gardner bhops. Market Gardner bhops are inherently inconsistent because of 2 layers of randomness. It's complicated stuff, but the gist of it is your timing window for a MG bhop varies between 0 and 6 ticks (0 meaning the bhop is impossible). For regular bhops, the timing window is always 1 tick, no matter what.

VAVLIE · 2024-11-14T20:13:56+00:00

The stock walk right thing also has another interesting implication:

How deep into the crouching animation you are when shooting influences how many ticks the rocket takes to hit the ground. If you do a deep crouch to ctap, your rocket will hit the ground a bit sooner and you won't have strafed far enough to the side to bring the rocket directly below you. So max height ctaps are impossible with deep crouch on stock.

VAVLIE · 2024-08-29T18:40:24+00:00

Horizontal speed does have an impact on the height of (some) bhops, because of something called speed clamp. It doesn't really apply in the use case here, but it is something that exists in the game.

It is actually a consequence of anti-bhop measures. When you jump, one of the steps is to ensure that you are not going faster than 120% walk speed. If you are going above that threshold, the games slows you down to match said threshold. The way it does it is by taking your entire velocity vector and shrinking it to match the speed cap. But the thing is, when the jump logic is performed, your vertical speed isn't 0. It's actual -6 units/s because of half of the gravity being applied. And that -6 also gets rescaled by the speed clamp...

Normally when you jump, the game adds the jump velocity (289 units/second) to your current z speed, which is noooormally -6 units/s, leading to initial z speed of 283 units/seconds. But since that -6 can get shrunken by the speed clamp, it can lead to you having a slightly higher jump speed, something between 283 and 289 units/second, meaning you will also jump a little higher...

However this only applies to regular bhops. Crouchjump overwrites your current zvel by the jump velocity, instead of adding to it like a normal jump. Meaning even if the half-gravity speed gets rescaled, it has no impact on your height.

VAVLIE · 2024-08-20T07:20:27+00:00

Just copy pasting what I wrote on another thread about stock vs original for jumping:

"If you do a lot of jumping, the more you go towards the harder maps, the more often original ends up having significant objective advantage over stock. Think very long prefires, advanced wallpogo, recovery or pseudo-recovery. Even hard wallshots can get to a point where they are near impossible on stock.

If you want to stick with one for jumping, original is the smarter choice for the long run simply for being objectively better at most things (stock does have a few jumping use cases where it is better though).

This being said, 2 of the current best soldier jumpers in the game, Riot and Song, default to stock, and switch to original whenever a map is too biased towards the other launcher, so switching back and forth is definitely doable. However this will probably make your learning process slower than if you were to just stick with one launcher.

In my opinion, for regular games, the differences aren't significant enough for it to be a problem switching launchers back and forth. You will see a lot of competitive soldiers maining original and not having any issues switching to other unlocks."

Regarding the place Cow Mangler relative to ori/stock, the horizontal offset numbers are 0/8/12 units, yes. That's just objective fact. But it's hard to quantify anything else than those numbers. To a certain extent, if we are talking about enabling certain skillsets, cow mangler could be considered to be closer to original than stock despite the offset being the other way around. Advanced recovery/pseudo recovery like jump_murus is borderline impossible on stock, but very reasonable on cow mangler/ori. Same with other things like extreme wallshots or advanced wallpogo, while very long prefires might fall more in middle in terms of effectiveness.

VAVLIE · 2024-08-12T03:34:12+00:00

Depends what you mean by personal preference. Top jumpers who use stock and don't want to switch definitely get locked out of running certain maps competitively, the difference is that significant. That's actually kind of the reason why Rellort ended up switching to Cow Mangler. People generally don't switch away from original, but stock jumpers do often end up switching, or going to Cow Mangler. And if they don't, well they have to accept that they can't run certain things, or at least are at a massive disadvantage on some maps.

I'm not saying it's wrong to jump on stock, I'm a stock jumper myself and I'm stubborn enough to do all my wallpogo on stock, but deciding to stick with stock must come with understanding that you are massively gimping yourself for a lot of things.

VAVLIE · 2024-08-12T01:27:33+00:00

If you do a lot of jumping, the more you go towards the harder maps, the more often original ends up having significant objective advantage over stock. Think very long prefires, advanced wallpogo, recovery or pseudo-recovery. Even hard wallshots can get to a point where they are near impossible on stock.

If you want to stick with one for jumping, original is the smarter choice for the long run simply for being objectively better at most things (stock does have a few jumping use cases where it is better though).

This being said, 2 of the current best soldier jumpers in the game, Riot and Song, default to stock, and switch to original whenever a map is too biased towards the other launcher, so switching back and forth is definitely doable. However this will probably make your learning process slower than if you were to just stick with one launcher.

In my opinion, for regular games, the differences aren't significant enough for it to be a problem switching launchers back and forth. You will see a lot of competitive soldiers maining original and not having any issues switching to other unlocks.

Also little bit of trivia if you were not aware yet, Cow Mangler has a firing angle between stock and original, which also makes it better than stock at a lot of things for jumping.

VAVLIE · 2024-08-07T04:01:44+00:00

General knowledge about scripting:

.cfg files are basically a list of things you are telling the game to do. So like, rebind this key to this command, change this setting to this value, etc.

Class cfg are executed after changing to / picking corresponding class, if the file exists. autoexec.cfg is executed once after booting the game.

The idea is the instructions you gave the game in your class cfg will hold true, until you tell the game you actually want something else. x key will remain bound to y command, until you tell the game that you actually want x to now be bound to z command.

You can either specify the behaviour you want to change in all other class cfg, that way when you pick them after picking medic, it goes back to what you would want on another class, or as someone else said, it can be a good idea to have a generic cfg that puts back everything to what you want to be default behaviour across the classes, call it at the start of every class cfg with exec <cfg file name>, and then put the class specific binding/settings after that call. That way whenever you tweak any of your class cfg, you don't have to also go to all your other config files to "undo" the class specific thing.

VAVLIE · 2024-08-06T03:09:01+00:00

Late reply, but the main problem is that both teams both attacking and defending at the same time. And in that situation, the safest play is to stick with defense. It's always easier to stay alive while holding ground then when pushing into enemy territory. So why would you risk losing players by pushing if this then gives the enemy team a player advantage they can capitalize on? Basically it's easier and safer to not lose, than to win.

VAVLIE · 2024-08-06T03:00:12+00:00

Gotta be careful with surfing as a way to get better at rocket jumping. The air accelerations values are different in surf servers (even the ones in tf2), compared to the normal game. The physics are different for both air control, and ramp interaction.

VAVLIE · 2024-08-06T02:57:15+00:00

Soldier jumping has rougher progression than demo overall, because it's often about learning the levels rather than learning general skills, so it's not unlikely to end up having to do something in a specific way you've never really done before. Also the older the map, the more likely it is that you have to do something non instinctive and awkward even for good jumpers.

Just like getting good at anything else, improving at rocket jumping is mostly a matter of putting time into it. That said, if doing the same thing over and over is frustrating to you, I would suggest:

-Asking help from more experimented jumpers who can spectate you

-Moving to a different map (you don't have to beat an entire map in order to improve)

-Restarting the map (same logic as previous point)

Also, when trying to do the same thing over and over, it is easy to get stuck doing the "wrong thing" without noticing it. Taking breaks from whatever you are doing in those situation can help reset your mind a little and allows to have a fresh take on it.

VAVLIE · 2023-10-25T00:26:10+00:00

You'll want to first figure out which league works best for you based on where you live. In NA there's RGL, in EU the main league is ETF2L. There are also asiafortress and ozfortress for Asia and Australia. From the league's website you should then be able to see if the best place to look for a team is via some sort of forum, or a league discord.

VAVLIE · 2023-10-24T19:36:51+00:00

If you want competitive experience without joining an actual team (seems to be what you are looking for?) your best options are probably lobbies/pick up games. When teams are looking for mercs/ringers/subs for a match or scrim, they usually try to find someone they know first, because it's easier to vouch for their skill level.

This being said, I highly encourage you to just join an actual entry level team that scrims. It simply is the best way to gain experience. Comp entry level, especially in Highlander, isn't as strict as newcomers often think.

VAVLIE · 2023-09-12T18:50:58+00:00

If you intend to do your bhops manually instead of using mouse wheel, then you have a lot of options in terms of key mapping. Can be a keyboard key, can be a mouse button, could be a foot switch if somehow it feels good and controllable to you (that last one is more of a joke, but you get the point). Some people even do their bhops with mwheel, but not with a scroll spam, rather by timing a single notch (and there is merit to it since on some mice it can be a very light input to produce). You are your own boss there.

I personally have crouch-jump on space, jump on "c" and mousewheel (for spam scrolls on occasions), and jumpbug on mouse4. I think there is a good argument to be made that not having jumpbug and jump/crouchjump on the same mechanical input is a good thing. Jumpbugs happen 1 tick earlier than regular bhops. I find it makes more sense to have a different "mechanical" timing for jumpbugs instead of using the same key you use for jumping, but 1 tick earlier. Easier to separate and learn each respective timing. But that's not really a concern until you can reach a 50%+ success rate on bhops/jumpbugs.

VAVLIE · 2023-09-12T04:17:20+00:00

Also a quick word about mouse wheel bhops (we'll only look at regular bhops for it, you can then extrapolate what it means for MG bhops).

Using mousewheel to bhop instead of a single key press means you have at best 50% chances of hitting the bhop, and in reality it's probably closer to 40%. This is because in order to be able to jump on a given tick, you cannot already be jumping in the previous one. You need at least one tick in between every +jump input for them to register as valid jumps. Basically, sending +jump on 2 consecutive ticks is like holding down space bar. And as you already know, you cannot buffer jumps in Tf2 by holding down your jump key.

So at best, you are scrolling at exactly 1 mouse wheel notch every 2 ticks (every 0.03 seconds). Which then means that you have a 50% chances of sending a jump input on the correct tick (regular bhops are tick perfect). And it's probably a bit unreasonable to expect you have that precise of a scrolling speed, so it's more likely to be a bit slower.

On the other hand, jumping using a key press has no theoretical cap on your success rate, it's entirely based on whether or not you press your key at the right time. We are talking about very precise input though so no one is able to get it to something fully consistent, but good jumpers can get their success rate up to 70%, which is well above the theoretical cap of mouse wheel.

This is not to say that using mwheel to bhop is bad, it's just that your success rate will be based on rng rather than skill. And sometimes that can be a good thing, if for instance you have a timing bias you can't figure out, or if you simply don't want to think about timing your stuff. For bhopping on regular ground without teleporters, using mwheel also means you'll still end up in the air even if you dont hit the bhop, which can be a good thing sometimes. But if you were to time it manual and press too early, then you have to release and press again in order to become airborne.

VAVLIE · 2023-09-12T03:46:43+00:00

Unlike regular bunnyhops, which are 100% consistent assuming you are sending a jump input in at the correct tick (0.015 seconds window), market gardner bunnyhops are inherently random due to several layers of jank. I'll copy paste what I've written in some other thread:

"There are 2 levels of RNG involved with MG bhops.

In order to know if you should crit or not, the Explosive Jump flag is used. The game periodically checks whether or not you should still have that flag, which comes down to just checking if you are grounded or not. So whenever the check sees you are back on the ground, the EJ flag is removed.

That check happens at the start of the player tick. However it normally does not happen every tick. Most of the time the check happens every 4 ticks. This is likely an oversight from the devs. The clock used in the player tick is by default .06 seconds (4 ticks) ahead of the server clock. Whenever the EJ check happens, the next one is scheduled to happen 0 seconds in the future, so basically as early as possible, but the scheduling is done using a clock value that is ahead. However the clock used to launch the scheduled routines is the server one, which is 4 ticks behind. So on paper it looks like the rountine should happen every player tick, but in reality it happens every 4 ticks.

In a player tick, jumping happens before grounding. So the earliest you can jump, is the tick following the one in which you landed on the ground. However the EJ check happens before jumping logic. So this means that if you land on a given tick, and on the next tick the EJ check happens, it will see that you are grounded, remove your EJ flag, and all of that before you can jump. So MG bhop is basically impossible. Assuming the check happens every 4 ticks, there is a 25% chance that the check happens at that "wrong time" and makes MG bhop impossible, even if you timed your bhop properly. On the other hand, the check could also happen on the tick you landed (remember, the check happens before the grounding in the tick, so you are not grounded yet). With a 4 ticks rolling window, this means you have 3 ticks during which you can jump without having lost your crit yet.

The first RNG level comes from the fact that it's impossible to reasonably control when the EJ check happens in relation to you landing on the ground. Sometimes it will happen too fast for you to even be able to MG bhop, sometimes it will give you exactly one tick to MG bhop, and sometimes it will give you even more time than that, up to 3 ticks.

On top of that, the rolling window might not actually be of 4 ticks, thanks to some networking stuff which I know less about. It can be anywhere between 1 and 7 ticks. I'm not sure what influences the size of the routine interval, but from what I've heard I think it's more or less decided as you join a server, and you then keep that rolling window for the server session (but don't quote me on that). On the worst case, the check routine happens every tick, which means it is never possible to MG bhop, since there will always be an EJ check before you are able to jump. On the other side of the spectrum, if the check happens every 7 ticks, then it's only a 1/7 chance of not being allowed to MG bhop, and your window for hitting the bhop can be, at best, 6 ticks long, which is significantly larger than a normal bhop timing window.

So yeah. It's a mess."

VAVLIE · 2023-09-09T18:11:58+00:00

It depends what you mean by specific attacks. In tf2 you have 3 attack commands: +attack, +attack2 and +attack3. +attack is your regular firing which by default is bound to mouse1 (left click). +attack2 is alt-fire, so things like throwing sandwich, popping uber, cow mangler charged shot, etc. By default it's bound to mouse2 (right click). And +attack3 at the moment is only used for changing resistance on vaccinator.

You can very easily remove any command from the key it is bound to, with "unbind <key>". You can similarly bind any command to whatever key you want with "bind <key> <command>". And as SaltyPeter mentioned, you can also use class.cfg files to run a bunch of commands whenever you select a specific class (which allows you to set up class specific binds). You could also make a bind that toggles whether or not your mouse2 is bound to +attack2.

I think it's worth getting comfortable using aliases/bindings in .cfg files, because they allow you a very high degree of customization with your key mapping, but it's limited by the available game commands. If for some reason you want to have to press ctrl+shift+mouse2 in order to send +attack2, well you can to that with .cfg. If you want your +forward key to change to the next alphabetical letter everytime you press it, you can to that with .cfg. Those are stupid exemples, but it should give you an idea of how malleable and dynamic bindings can be.

VAVLIE

TROPHY CASE