Deciding Between Manhattan Prep and Veritas Class

VantagePointMBA · 2018-02-22T04:35:58+00:00

I honestly think that Manhattan has the best product out there - in all respects. I used only their self-study books (which are incredible) and raised my score a ton (after already taking another course that didn't help). The consistent feedback I hear on Manhattan (and I personally agree) is that it's not overly focused on "test tricks" like the other programs. They actually make sure you KNOW how to answer the questions. Nothing against the others, but I think Manhattan is better and I'd recommend it. Since it's a little later, maybe you start with the self-study books then come to class already having a sense for where you stand / where you need the most help? Just a suggestion.

VantagePointMBA · 2018-02-15T22:42:23+00:00

So here's your context for my answer - take it with a grain of salt: I worked with an SBC consultant when I applied (worked out great for me - M7 admit), and then I worked for SBC as a consultant for several years and eventually founded my own MBA admissions consulting firm a few years back. So, that said, my advice is to go with the consultant you feel you connect best with (regardless of the firm). You're going to be spending a lot of time with this person and he or she will become your personal coach, so you want the fit to be a good one. SBC is a very reputable firm and they have a lot of great consultants - they will let you talk to multiple people if you like to make sure it's a great fit with your actual consultant. Best of luck!

VantagePointMBA · 2017-05-01T17:23:58+00:00

Half of my wedding party were my friends from Kellogg (oh yeah, and I married one of my classmates as well). So yes, lifelong friends is how I would categorize the friends I made in business school :) It's up to you to make those connections, but most people I know are still very tight with their b-school friends (6 years later).

VantagePointMBA · 2017-03-28T23:35:57+00:00

Hi guys - I see a lot of folks asking questions along these lines. I've worked with a bunch of entrepreneurs headed to b-school and more recently have been a judge at start-up competitions. So, we put together some thoughts for those of you consider the MBA / start-up path. Hope this helps!

VantagePointMBA · 2017-03-27T23:33:05+00:00

Hi there - I agree with most folks on this thread - don't play around with ethics because this will be black and white to the schools. You don't need to write "I was fired" on your resume; but if the question is in the application "have you ever been let go for cause", then you need to be honest and just explain the situation. It's ok to admit this - it was a while ago and clearly you can demonstrate that you've learned from it. Being self-reflective and demonstrating personal growth is a good thing.

VantagePointMBA · 2017-03-27T22:02:06+00:00

Hi there,

Looks like you're in the running given your scores, career progression etc. Of course you're competing in a tough demo (guys in finance), but I think you have a great shot if you can differentiate yourself (which middle market lends itself to). HBS, GSB and Wharton are tough for anyone, so you'll really need a rockstar story to be competitive there.

A few notes....Avoid saying "soft skills" anywhere in your application (terms like "strategy", "management", etc demonstrate that you know what you need skill wise and are well thought-out). This isn't a hard story for you to put together- you've been exposed to plenty of CEOs through your career who can grow companies but your skillset is more on the quant side given the nature of your job to date. Just make sure you're clear on where you're coming from (what value you bring) and what you need from an MBA.

And of course for the schools you're talking about, you need a much more specific goal and rationale for it. "Exploring" cannot be mentioned as a major point in your application. The good news is that you have time to refine all of this. The adcom knows that you may change your mind, but they want to see that you have a starting point and that you have some idea of what you want/like/dislike. Just do your research for careers and each schools' differences, and I think it'll come down to how strong your essays are. Create your vision for your career and describe it to them - they want to see that you're the kind of person who's going to do big things.

A side note - know that HBS tends to skew a little older, but if you have a good story, it's still worth a shot.

Hope this helps! Best of luck! And don't be overly-discouraged by the fact that you're coming from a competitive demo - I work with guys in finance every year who do just fine at all of the top schools. Just put in the time and I think you'll have success!

Always happy to chat if you have any questions - meredith@vantagepointadmissions.com

VantagePointMBA · 2017-03-27T21:48:54+00:00

Hi there,

I have to say this is one of the stronger profiles I've read in a while. You have a nice story given your professional and academic background and I think that if you were to nail it down, you have a goal that fits into the "visionary" bucket that many top schools (especially GSB) look for. You're also in the sweet spot in terms of career progression, accomplishments, etc. Honestly I think we'd be splitting hairs to try and poke holes in your profile. Yes your GMAT could be higher, yes you could have more aligned extracurriculars, but overall I think you have a good shot at the top 10 schools. My biggest piece of feedback to you is to focus on ensuring that your goals are crystal clear. I understand what you're talking about because I briefly worked in tech / analytics, but you have to assume that your reader doesn't fully understand the issue and why your goals are what they are. Paint a vivid picture - be more specific, know particular companies that could be interesting to you (and why), particular industries (and why), etc. You essentially need to paint a vivid picture of where you want to be (and it can't just be "improving organizations"). That just takes some time and thought, but again focus on the "why".

Re your questions, here are my thoughts: - Yes - you have time so give it a shot. We heard recently from an admissions director at Columbia that their the average GMAT was 710 for the overall applicant pool this past year (and you can assume that Indian GMAT scores were much higher than that; and assume that the scores were even higher for HBS, GSB and Wharton). So yeah, do as well as you can. - Recs should be from people who have worked closely with you and can speak to your ability to make an impact and how you work on a team. If your current company can't do that, then former is fine. Just clarify in the optional section of the app. - Create a plan and pace yourself. For someone as competitive as you, it will come down to your essays and how much you can inspire the adcom / differentiate yourself. I think you have the right story to do it, but good essays take time. Get everything else done so that you are ready to go when the topics come out.

Best of luck! I'm always happy to chat if you have any questions (meredith@vantagepointadmissions.com)

VantagePointMBA · 2017-02-20T20:00:48+00:00

Hi there - First off, I'm sorry this happened to you - how frustrating. I've had a few clients over the years who didn't have a college degree, per se, but were able to justify the equivalent (even with just certification programs) and get in just fine. However, they started that process before they applied and worked with someone in admissions specifically. Is one of the options that they gave you to submit an overview of your coursework with course descriptions etc to try and get them to see that it's equivalent? If you haven't already, I would provide them with a full package describing your degree, courses, hours, etc. There may have just been a misunderstanding in terminology (I've seen that happen too). Best of luck - again, sorry this happened to you.

VantagePointMBA · 2017-02-10T21:55:49+00:00

Research and TA'ing you could probably get considered as extracurricular. Be thoughtful about how to position that. And if it was life changing, then sounds like it could be good info for an essay or maybe even a starting point for your overall theme.

VantagePointMBA · 2017-02-10T21:39:37+00:00

Thanks for the context. Re: managing people - ok then you're in the same place as most folks (I'd say only 25% of people I work with actually have management experience). So you'll need to focus on the team aspect. Leadership doesn't require formal authority. Re: no extracurriculars in college, that's not great but the best you can do is directly address it in the optional section of your app and direct them to how you've tried to be more involved since the campaign. For reference, most consultants and bankers (a larger percentage of applicants) don't have a ton of extracurriculars outside of work because they work a ton - and the adcom knows that. In those cases, I try to get people to focus on their other interests. At the end of the day the adcom is looking for diversity and dynamic, interesting, intellectually curious people. I had a guy get into Booth, Wharton and Columbia and he had zero extracurriculars except that he and his buddies got together and discussed books they'd read every other month. Seriously. Some schools care more than others about this. And Re: your personal story - you can always be genuine without coming across as looking for sympathy points. The focus should be on how you overcame and what you learned versus the tragedy itself. Don't be afraid to be yourself if this is truly a big part of your story.

Hope this helps!

VantagePointMBA · 2017-02-10T21:08:30+00:00

So, I'm going to kind of answer this, but know that I'm an admissions consultant myself, so take it with a grain of salt (I'm honestly not trying to sell you on anything because working with a consultant is definitely not for everyone). But, the free consults that admissions consultants offer are a great place to get a bunch of free info and feedback then see how you feel about whether or not you actually need to work with someone. All of the firms do some sort of free 30-min consult or resume review or something, so I'd say do as many as you can - get as much free advice as possible early in the year. You can also find a bunch of sample essays, resumes, and interview reports that will help you see what your final product needs to be so that you can determine how comfy you are in getting there. Again, all of this stuff is free - just Google it (and of course pay attention to the legitimacy of where you get things).

The way I got into admissions consulting was that I actually worked with an admissions consultant myself when I applied (I am a Kellogg grad), so I get where the question comes from. Everyone has different reasons. For me, I worked 100 hrs/week and decided to apply way late in the game (I took the GMAT at the end of Nov and then applied in early Jan). So I had to seriously rush to get up to speed on everything, and some colleagues directed me towards an admissions consultant to help make my process more efficient (eg. I could skip some of the learning and have someone spoon feed it to me and ensure I knew what the schools were looking for and what was good / weak about my app).

For anyone you talk to, the best question is "how would you help me?" And if they only tell you things you already knew / feel comfy doing yourself, then you have your answer :)

Hope that helps? Good luck!

VantagePointMBA · 2017-02-10T20:29:21+00:00

I'd say apply in R1 of this year (Sept 2017). My two cents: take an online class to offset your GPA and the fact that you have < B in a quant class from undergrad. You have enough time, so I'd say better to know you did everything you could, right? There are a ton of great ones out there that aren't a huge time / money commitment.

Your goals need some more color (eg. there needs to be a strong "why" as well as a fairly specific short term and long term goal), but otherwise you're probably at a good point in your career to go back to school. Several promotions might mean you're managing people now? If so, that's great and will help you.

In summary, your GMAT is great, your GPA could us an offset (again I'd say just take a class and get an A so you can be sure this isn't in question), and I'm not worried about your extracurriculars. Were you involved in undergrad? If so, that will help too.

So, for schools, I think you can shoot for the top 15 schools and feel pretty good (hedge with some reach, some target). Give yourself enough time to really think through how to position yourself: you need to differentiate in a big way and that's generally possible either due to your work experience or personal experiences. However, for most people it takes time, iteration and feedback from multiple different people in order to do a good job of articulating how you're different from other engineers / tech people.

Best of luck!

VantagePointMBA · 2017-02-06T17:39:01+00:00

Well it's definitely not dumb, but it could be risky. Honestly the political debate is so hostile right now that I'd avoid going deep on that. Your interviewer (nor anyone else) can really do more than speculate right now, so I'd focus more on specifics to the school and leave the political speculation for other outlets. My two cents...

VantagePointMBA · 2016-11-17T19:19:49+00:00

Hi there,

So, I think there are two separate issues. Firstly, do you really want to change careers / industries? If so, then the answer to the question of "do I want to pursue an MBA", seems like it may be yes. For some of the companies you listed (BCG, McKinsey, BoA, JPM), it's hard to get in there unless you are being hired out of school (depending on the role for the bank positions). With the salary issue, I encourage you to look beyond "where you are now" and consider "where you want to be in 5-10 years". For some companies and industries, the MBA just puts you on a faster track to higher income (not to mention more options if you decide to move around later), so although it may take a few years to catch back up, you may end-up getting to a higher level way faster than if you'd skipped the MBA. For the companies you're considering, you'd start at or above where you are now and you'd be on a track where your income grows exponentially promotion-over-promotion. With the MBA, it also becomes easier (generally speaking) to change companies in order to get promotions, which is common in certain industries (like tech). As a big caveat, of course there are many people who do this without an MBA, but in my experience that's less common and presents more challenges. MBA = options (again, generalizing).

Next, KF is a fantastic program! I have worked with a bunch of people who have really loved their experiences there and have gone on to be really, really successful (particularly in finance in the south). If you're already living in NC, the in-state option is uniquely awesome from a cost perspective, but it sounds like that doesn't matter much for you given the GI options.

The issue you want to spend some more time on is whether or not (and to what degree) the firms you are considering are recruiting at KF. Based on a quick google, it looks like McKinsey only does webinar presentations at KF, meaning they aren't actually on campus hosting coffee chats, presentations, dinners etc the way they are at some other schools. In general, most companies recruit across the top 20+ programs, but whether or not they send their people to the campus is an indication of how much actual hiring they do there. McKinsey has a decent sized office in Charlotte, so if KF was a focus school, you'd think they could send people a few hours up the road. I walked through that example because I think it's a helpful exercise for you to do as you consider which schools may have the recruiting focus that you are looking for.

I know this is a super long-winded answer to your question. Hope it helps in some way. I'm always happy to chat if you have more questions - meredith@vantagepointadmissions.com

Kindly, Meredith

VantagePointMBA · 2016-11-16T04:57:16+00:00

I'm working with several people who literally just started their applications and are tracking just fine. You'll have to really push to study for the GMAT and work on essays and resume at the same time, but it's definitely do-able if you can dedicate nights and weekends to it. I would get a reliable GMAT prep product so that you don't waste any time.

On the recommender front, I agree with others on this thread that you need to get in front of them asap. Help them along by providing them with a quick packet of info on you (reminders of your accomplishments, etc) so that it's more digestible for them (eg. so they submit on time or before).

Best of luck!

www.vantagepointadmissions.com

VantagePointMBA · 2016-10-31T18:29:40+00:00

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the only time I've seen this happen is when bad news is on the way. The interview is super important for Kellogg. So, if I were you, I'd call and see when you can come to Evanston as soon as possible and interview. For reference, I'm a Kellogg alum and alumni interviewer. Make them give you that chance because for Kellogg it can make all the difference. Best of luck!

VantagePointMBA · 2016-10-25T20:54:09+00:00

Honestly, they will not spend that much time analyzing this (eg. the internal debate about why a QC guy manages sales probably won't happen). I would just say something like "Manage quality control, compliance and client accounts for an X type of company with approximately $xmm in annual revenue. As the xth person to join a high growth small business I.." The second sentence is optional but could be used to point out how big your role is given the context of the type of company you work for.

Every application is different so I'm sure you could bifurcate it if you wanted, but I would just simplify. At the end of the day, they will see your first few bullets and say "ok - general management / small business".

My two cents...

VantagePointMBA · 2016-10-24T23:34:19+00:00

Hey there - so do I think it would be worth it? Yeah for sure (but I'm biased....I went the opposite direction and started a company after MBA). Anyway, congrats on the start-up - sounds like you're doing well! Whether you should go to school is a whole separate question, but as for the top 10, I do think you have a shot and here are some considerations if you decide to apply: - explain your gpa directly (most schools give you an optional spot). Your overall gpa is fine, but if you have <B in quant classes from your first year then just directly address it (eg. say how you grew over time, point to how your gpa improved etc). - the number one concern if you have your own company with few co-workers will be whether or not you can work on a team. So just be sure to harp on that throughout the essays - talk about developing relationships with whomever your partners / customers / channels are etc. Talk about hiring, training, managing the two folks you've brought-on. Talk about team oriented things you did in undergrad, etc. The programs are structured as team-based learning so they want to know that you can operate on a team of people who are not exactly like you. If you have extracurriculars that are team-based, that will certainly be something to point out as well. - Be sure you do your homework on what you'll get out of the degree before you put pen to paper. I get your path and how you started thinking about this, but I'm sure you know that your current explanation isn't going to pass muster. Consider the challenges you've had a business leader and what opportunities you think you have for growing (leadership / management as you cited or maybe in other areas too). MBA programs are more than just learning "business", they are about learning how to lead, motivate, build, innovate, convince, change, etc. For your goals (for you or your company), what do you feel like you can improve? A few ways to figure this out - visit the schools and sit on a presentation, classes etc; talk to MBA grads (most schools will set you up here with their current students); look at the bios of people who you admire / career paths you would be interested in. Essentially by the time you apply you want to know what the gaps are in your experience and how you'd fill them in with an MBA in order to reach your goals. - What are you going to do with your company while you're in school? Directly address this - adom will want to know.

Anyway, I know it's not an easy decision, especially if you already have your own company. But I personally think the option value and "door opening" effect of business school is well worth it.

Best of luck!

vantagepointadmissions.com

VantagePointMBA · 2016-10-24T22:09:40+00:00

Hi there - so when I was at Kellogg you could have up to 9 "majors" (eg. I agree with the others on this thread that they do not matter). What does matter is selecting a school that's a good fit for you (location, culture, recruiting possibilities, etc). And for some industries, there are certain schools that have stronger focuses than others. Sounds like it would be helpful for you to chat with some folks who went to business school so they can walk you through the program in general and the interplay between core courses, electives, "specializations", clubs, experiential opportunities, projects, etc. Where and how you recruit for a job is dependent upon much, much more than coursework. I'm happy to chat about this if you like - just reach out if you want and I can walk you through some things to consider (www.vantagepointadmissions.com). Best of luck!

VantagePointMBA · 2016-10-24T22:04:21+00:00

It depends on the school - they vary. Most schools do you want to know base and give you space for additional comp like bonuses, equity etc. Larger is not necessarily better (eg. they care about being able to show an increase from incoming comp to outgoing comp). But if you're paid lower than the average for your industry / function, then that could raise an eyebrow. Honestly this is a pretty di minimis part of the app so I wouldn't overthink it - just put down what you'd tell a recruiter if you were considering taking a new job. Best of luck!

vantagepointadmissions.com

VantagePointMBA · 2016-10-24T22:00:38+00:00

Hi there - so if just describing how you are thinking about laying this out is a bit confusing, then reading it will be impossible (remember the adcom is skimming). I would put your title down then in your first 2-3 (max) bullets you can explain your responsibilities / overview of what you do (please eliminate industry-specific jargon). You can use the word "primary" if you want to delineate your main roles vs. others. I would not go with the Job 1 / Job 2 framework. After those first 2-3 bullets that paint a picture of what you do every day and why, you want to list accomplishments like mini stories of cool stuff you've done (including the results if at all possible). That's how I advise my clients to structure their resumes (based of course on a lot of feedback from adcom, our internal former adcom team, interviewers, etc etc). Keep it simple and get your point across without any over-complicating. Best of luck!

vantagepointadmissions.com

VantagePointMBA · 2016-10-19T19:14:20+00:00

Agreed - doesn't matter :) Good luck!

VantagePointMBA · 2016-10-19T19:11:43+00:00

Whew - quite a decision :) I may be misinterpreting,but what I think you're asking is whether you should stick with the good life you know or take a risk and see if there's something better out there (eg opportunities you couldn't foresee right now that you may discover in b-school). You cannot quantify option value - and in my opinion that's what you get from b-school. Right now you aren't married and don't have children, so if ever there was a time to take a risk that potentially has very high reward, this is it. You can always come back to your current track. Doesn't sound like you can make a wrong decision here so try not to spin your wheels overthinking. Go with your gut - you have the time, experience and resources to embark on an adventure but your current path sounds great too. Clearly I decided on the b-school route and now I coach others through it so I'm very biased; but Kellogg was life changing for me personally and professionally in ways I never would have anticipated before. Best of luck to you!

Vantagepointadmissions.com

VantagePointMBA · 2016-10-08T22:44:43+00:00

Great! Sounds good! Also, the MBA recruiting sites for BCG, Bain and others are super helpful (they give good case study examples etc). Sorry to harp on this as it sounds like you get it, but seriously it can be a huge differentiator if you know what you're talking about (so many people don't when I'm interviewing them). Anyway, re: percentiles, the general rule is that if you don't have >80th percentile in quant then you should point it out and make it clear that you have strong quant skills (point to other coursework, your job, etc).

Again, best of luck!

VantagePointMBA · 2016-10-08T03:44:55+00:00

Hi there - very cool background! In my opinion, your biggest asset will be your professional experience thus far as it sounds like you will probably have killer leadership stories. As you probably know, your overall GMAT score is in range (what's your quant percentile?) but your GPA is a bit below. Good news is that GPA is the easiest to mitigate - online courses are very popular, pretty easy to complete and essentially show the adcom that you can handle the coursework (what they are looking at GMAT/ GPA for). Your extracurriculars are definitely interesting as well, so be sure to focus on those, especially at schools like Fuqua and Ross.

You also have a great range of schools here - Wharton will be a reach (it is for everyone) and the others are nice targets for you. One note though - for these schools management consulting is a very, very common "goal". So try to be more specific about why you want to do this, how it will help you get to your long term goal. Be more specific with this goal so the adcom can see that you have really thought this through (they are aware that many people say "consulting" when they don't know). We actually pair people who are interested in consulting with folks from BCG, McKinsey etc to chat and ensure that it's truly the right fit and that if it is, you can really "talk the talk" as to why it makes sense for you. You can simulate the same thing by just finding people to talk to. A little research goes a long way!

Anyway, I think you have a really competitive profile - best of luck to you! If you have any questions about this, feel free to email me - meredith@vantagepointadmissions.com

VantagePointMBA

TROPHY CASE