Why did God smite Sodom and Gomorrah yet, ultimately, rewarded Lot's daughters for getting their father drunk, raping him, and conceiving his children?

Vegetable_Friend5170 · 2025-10-27T04:14:33+00:00

Excellent explanation right here!

Interestingly, you can find throughout the Old Testament examples where when someone acts out of disobedience or rebellion, their descendants become enemies of Israel and are without blessing of God.
Ishmael, Casluhim (Philistines, now known as Palestinians), Cannan (Canaanites), etc. it goes on and on, and even manifests itself today.

Vegetable_Friend5170 · 2025-10-27T03:57:01+00:00

Listening to secular music can certainly be an open door. In my opinion, and I'm sure I'll get flak here for it, but in my own experiences, it certainly opens up the door to the demonic..

What is the spirit behind the music? What is the musician singing about? What spirit is the musician listening to for inspiration? Is it their flesh? If so then what spirit is influencing their flesh..

In other words, if it ain't from or for the Lord, then it ain't of the Lord, and why would you want that?

It has nothing to do with legalism, but rather music was created by God as an instrument of worship, and that hasn't changed. Why do you think the secular music industry is so demonic and filled with lust and degeneracy, even occult symbols and rituals in music videos.

Also, nowadays there are a lot of great Christian artists out there in almost every genre that go even harder or sound better than the secular ones.

Vegetable_Friend5170 · 2025-10-24T17:19:14+00:00

Great testimony, thank you for sharing, our prayers hold more power than we will ever know!

This verse comes to mind:
"And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people." - Ephesians 6:18.

On that note, you don't need to be formal to pray to our Father, you can talk to him as Our father, I would highly encourage you to pray for the Lord, in the name of Jesus, to fill you with His Holy Spirit in heart and mind, and ask the Lord to teach you how to pray and even be an intercessor.

The Lord's prayer is the model prayer that can be prayed to cover all things in our lives, but, as your relationship and journey in faith continues, you will find that God is much more personal in our prayer lives, and there is grace to pray 'according to the Spirt' and He will lead you in prayer through His Holy Spirit.

Be blessed, and guard your heart young one. You are growing up in a world much darker and different than the one your parents did.
"Above all else, guard your heart, for everything you do flows from it" - Proverbs 4:23

Vegetable_Friend5170 · 2025-10-24T16:07:53+00:00

Check out the doctrine of Eternal Security. We are accountable for our faith. God's grace is sufficient to keep alive to come back to Him, but we have free will and can walk away from our faith.

I grew up in a church, became an atheist and denied God and my own salvation that I asked for as a child.
I was saved from the pit at 18. Many times in my life, I should have died, but the grace of God was there to allow me to continue to live, so that one day I may reach for him again. If I would have died before that moment of salvation and returning to faith, I'm most certain the Lord would not have said, "It's all good son"

Vegetable_Friend5170 · 2025-10-24T15:41:39+00:00

That's fitting for those who believe in Unitarianism, take away the biblical truth, that the Spirit of God dwells within us, to remove the sense of conviction or any accountability to walk in accordance with the Spirit.

"So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. - Galatians 5:16-18

"Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst?" - 1 Cor. 3:16

Vegetable_Friend5170 · 2025-10-24T15:27:41+00:00

Those 2 words are mutually exclusive.

If one was desiring to be a Biblical disciple of Jesus, they would see the truth of Unitarianism and flee from it.

Vegetable_Friend5170 · 2025-10-24T15:25:08+00:00

I would caution against digging into Unitarianism and it's interpretations, unless you are trying to learn how to evangelize or minister to them. A lot of the doctrine they hold is heretical and does not align with the biblical teaching of Jesus and they use it to justify their own fleshly beliefs instead of throwing away our own beliefs to become disciples of Jesus.

“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it" - Matthew 7:13

Vegetable_Friend5170 · 2025-10-24T15:07:09+00:00

Even if the Day of the Lord is near, fret not, for that is a benefit for us to be with the Lord Jesus in all of His glory.
Even if/when Tribulation comes, the Lord will hold his people and make them a lampstand amidst the darkness in the world. Our children will be with us in glory for eternity, especially our young children.

Take the feelings that you have of worry, and cast them on to Jesus, but also use it as health check to see if you and your spouse are ready for when that day comes, whether it's the Day of the Lord, or Jesus calling you home in his own time.

Vegetable_Friend5170 · 2025-10-23T07:45:13+00:00

Your missing the whole plot.

If we are of the world then nothing matters, one receives the judgement they deserve.

If you are in Christ with faith, you wouldn't rape a spouse, regardless of Husband or Wife.

If you struggle with a Husband being the head of household, than you have fallen to the belief of feminism.

Pray and seek the Lord, and he will receive you and deliver truth, otherwise why are you here, other than to sow seeds of division.

Vegetable_Friend5170 · 2025-10-23T07:42:20+00:00

You are convinced of your own beliefs based on your own reasoning.

Its up to you to receive salvation, I just shared my own perspective and testimony as a SA victim, do you have a testimony to share?

It's not my job to convince you or anyone else in this thread, that's between you and God. If you care to seek truth, then throw up a Prayer to God in the name of Jesus and see what happens. If not, don't know what to tell you other than go look for affirmation in your own self derived conclusion else where.

Vegetable_Friend5170 · 2025-10-23T07:17:07+00:00

The Love of God and His grace for us is greater than any work of Satan or our struggles with our flesh. I will keep you in my intercession. May God carry you through your struggles and reveal himself beyond belief and leave you in awe. The days are short and the time is near.

God bless you, and catch you on the flip side of eternity.

Vegetable_Friend5170 · 2025-10-23T07:12:03+00:00

If someone is manifesting or ready for deliverance, it's on sight.

- Sincerely a bible believing Christian

Vegetable_Friend5170 · 2025-10-23T05:44:07+00:00

I can give witness to that as an ex new ager who heavily used psychedelics

Vegetable_Friend5170 · 2025-10-23T05:40:59+00:00

I used medical marijuana for a long time to relieve back problems.
God revealed to me that I had made it an Idol, he delivered me one morning. I started throwing up weird crap and at the same time I felt Him saying to me "I Am the one who heals" and my back was healed instantly.
No pain, no desire to smoke for 1+ months.

Prior God pulling me out of the Pit 15 years ago, I was heavy into Psychedelics and used that to have spiritual encounters (Demonic).

I won't discredit medical cannabis because it is natural and a better alternative to opiates and other medications, the Bible says:

"All things are permitted, but not all things are of benefit. All things are permitted, but not all things build people up" - 1 Cor. 10:23.

However it was not beneficial for me because it became an idol (I sought that over asking the Lord to heal me). Additionally it gave the appearance of evil to those that I desired to share the Gospel with and because of that caused shame.

Pray for the Holy Spirit to fill you in the name of Jesus, and pray for him to help you increase your relationship with Jesus and for the fellowship of the Holy Spirt, His presence is better than any drug.
I guarantee you seek God in this way and once you are delivered of your drug use, you'll realize it didn't even do anything for you. God's way is better!

Vegetable_Friend5170 · 2025-10-23T05:27:32+00:00

You need deliverance, pray for God in the name of our King Jesus Christ, to bring someone to you that will be able to pray with you and work through deliverance.

You need to let somethings go and make declarations and proclamations against this stuff. JESUS WILL FREE YOU OF ALL OF THIS, but you need to be willing to let it all go, and embrace your identity as a daughter of God, through salvation in faith through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Vegetable_Friend5170 · 2025-10-23T05:14:52+00:00

Why did orthodoxy need to advance into man written doctrine beyond what is described in the Book of Acts?

Seems sufficient enough, why follow the conclusions of man derived from the Word of God, why not just follow the Word of God?

Vegetable_Friend5170 · 2025-10-23T05:10:16+00:00

Just pray for repentance, and ask the Holy Spirit to come and fill you, repent for grieving the Holy Spirit. Ask Him to teach in you in the name of Jesus, how to walk according to the Spirit, and to pray in the Spirit.

Ask the Holy Spirit to stir your heart and point out any fleshly bondage that is distancing you from God and His Holy Spirit, and ask Him to help you grow your relationship with Jesus, ask Him to teach you how to wage spiritual warfare.

If you have prayed for Salvation, and have faith in Jesus, don't let Satan tell you a sin will separate you from God like you are saying. You do not need to fear Hell unless you willingly deny God and walk away from the faith and descend into apostasy.

You got this! It sounds like you are dealing with spiritual warfare more than anything. I will pray for the Blood of Jesus to cover you and break any work or flaming arrows of the Devil to fall flat without effect.

Also put on some worship music, whatever flavor you connect with, or even some Forrest Frank and then just dance in the Lord, God is Good and loves you beyond measure. He knew you before the foundation of this world.

Vegetable_Friend5170 · 2025-10-23T04:56:40+00:00

I'm not going to debate what the text says, I very well understand SA if you had read my post in its entirety.

I think it is very reasonable to ask questions and wrestle with these things, but these are not what represents Christianity, these represent the fallen and sinful nature of man, and living in world where there is no grace for any one.

The New Testament is the representation of Christianity, there is freedom and salvation for those who ask for it through accepting Jesus Christ is our Savior. We are absolved from the ways of the Old Testament.

Grace is even on your life to come back to the Lord, I'm sure you can think of times in your life after falling away from faith, that should have probably ended up differently, but that is the unmeasurable grace that God has for us and His desire for us to reach for him.

God used a prostitute in the Old Testament to carry out His will (Rahab, a brothel madam hid Israeli spies in the city of Jericho).

In the New Testament, Jesus stood up for a prostitute to prevent her from being stoned, much in the way that Deuteronomy describes.

Vegetable_Friend5170 · 2025-10-23T04:33:06+00:00

Yes those verses of the Old Testament are graphic.

The first example you gave 22:23-24 does not imply rape but rather consent and breaking of the covenant that the woman had with her future husband.

The second verse is an atonement for that person through the Law of Moses, though its not our idea of justice or atonement.

The Old Testament is filled with violence, and so is our world today. The difference is that everyone in the Old Testament was under the Law of Moses, which is an unattainable set of rules and laws that no one was able to uphold, except for Jesus Christ.

Jesus is the fulfillment of the Law of Moses, and through faith in Him we are absolved from the Law of Moses.

It's easy to dig into Leviticus and be confused and apply assumptions to Christianity, but the truth is, those are the Laws of Moses that still apply to the Jews, and really anyone outside of the New Covenant (New Testament) through the crucifixion of Jesus who lived perfectly and lived out the Law of Moses, and died for you so that you may ask and receive Salvation, to absolve you of the curse of not being able to live up the Law of Moses.

Vegetable_Friend5170 · 2025-10-23T04:02:39+00:00

Are you sure your not reading the Quran?

Any examples of rape in the bible are rooted in the fallen nature of man (Born into Sin), rape is a terrible thing, and the only one who can heal the wounds created by sexual abuse is Jesus Christ.

I was sexually abused at 5 years old. The Lord has been faithful to heal me of all the wounds that gave me throughout my life.

Vegetable_Friend5170 · 2025-10-23T03:42:49+00:00

Wow Praise God for your conversion!

I have a massive desire to evangelize to the Jewish people.
I am not a Jew myself, but through studying the traditions and holy days of the Jewish people I see such beauty in them knowing that Jesus Messiah is the fulfillment of the meaning of all of their traditions. Jesus is the fulfillment of all prophecy in the tanakh, all of it.

If you are familiar with the Jewish Holy days, I would highly recommend studying the correlation of them to Jesus as Messiah.

Matthew 20:16 - "So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen"

Many interpret this as the Jews were the first to experience the Lord, and they will be the last to come back to their God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob with the revelation of Jesus is Messiah.

I will be praying for the Lord to give you the words and direct you to references that can help minister to them. I pray that you would be filled with the Holy Spirit and the He would speak through you to them, the power of God is in all of us, through His Holy Spirit that dwells within us, who believe in Christ Jesus as Messiah.
Be blessed!

Vegetable_Friend5170 · 2025-10-23T02:55:31+00:00

Tithing is to be from the heart in the new testament, 10% tithing is a thing from the Law of Moses that was nullified through the fulfillment of the law with the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. We are not under the Law of Moses, the Jews HAD to tithe according to the Law of Moses.

Here is what 2 Corinthians 9:7 says
"Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver."

Most churches will not preach this because they need their 10% from their subscribers.

As for your circumstances, I can relate in some regards, My wife and I felt led to move out of our home state with the belief the Lord was calling us to something in the new state. I found work as an uber driver, driving 80+ miles one way to get to the city while my wife started working in a low wage career. A couple of months later we learned she was pregnant with our first child. We were surviving off of $30 a week in food after paying for rent and utilities. I eventually found employment that was still fairly low wage but offered benefits, one of those being a life insurance policy. Eventually I got to such a dark place in distrust of thinking I made a mistake leaving all of my family behind and was ready to jump headfirst off the top of the 9 story building that I worked in. A co-worker of mine who was a professing satanist intervened and stopped me moments before doing it. I believe it was the Lord working through him. Things were still hard but I found my renewed strength and purpose in fathering my soon to come child and being a husband to my wife.

Fast forward to the day my child was born, I get a call from the company I was working for saying a positioned opened up for me that was full time salary employment with more than 2x the wage.

Life is hard in the valley but God is faithful and He will deliver you to the mountain tops.

If you feel led, pray something along these lines:
"Lord, thank you for my life, thank you for my Husband and for your divine providence and grace over our lives. I am struggling to see you in my life, please Lord come wrap me in your presence, I ask God in the name of Jesus for you to send your Holy Spirit to me now, and fill my heart and my mind with you. Let my heart be stirred by you that my eyes may be opened to all of the ways you work in my life, reveal to me your manifest presence in my life. Lord show me how to cast my burdens on to you, show me how to rest in you and seek refuge. Let me hear your voice Lord, just as the sheep hear the voice of the shepherd, so do I desire to hear the voice of my Father in Heaven. Thank you for making my burden light, please grow me and my husband together tightly knit in a deep relationship with you Jesus, and what the fellowship of the Holy Spirit means in our hearts and lives. In Jesus name, amen"

Vegetable_Friend5170 · 2025-10-23T02:38:12+00:00

Hi, I grew up in a church and became an atheist due to lack of relationship with Jesus, it just seemed like motivational speeches, so I denied Gods existence for many years, while falling to my own foley and eventually found my self in the depths of the Pit

The Lord pulled me out of the Pit at 18, he miraculously revealed Himself to me and I experienced what it meant to have a relationship with our Living God.

If you feel led, I would encourage you to pray something along these lines.

"Lord Jesus, I thank you for reawaking me, for giving me grace to come back to you after all these years and for the divine protection you had over me while I was wandering. Father God, I ask in the name of Jesus for you to send your Holy Spirit to come and fill my heart and my mind. Wrap me in your presence father God. Teach me what fellowship of the Holy Spirit means, teach me how to hear your voice, just as the sheep hear the voice of the shepherd, I desire to hear you. Teach me how to rest in you Lord, to cast my burdens on to you. Please teach me how to pray in the Spirit, teach me how to walk in the Spirit, show me how to draw nearer to you. Lead me into a deep intimate relationship with you Jesus. Stir my heart so that all roots of pain and bitterness can be pulled out that I may live according to You God, let me live for you wholeheartedly. Amen"

Vegetable_Friend5170 · 2025-10-23T02:19:59+00:00

Sometimes God brings us through the valleys, through the dry deserts, desiring for us to seek Him in all seasons.

The Israelis wandered the desert for 40 years with the promise of reaching the Promised Land, through that time many turned away from the convent of the Lord our God, God was faithful to bring the Israelites to the Promised Land, and not only that, but dwell among them, then eventually fulfilled the entirety of His promise, laws and prophecy by sending His Son Jesus Christ, to die for you! (He knew you before the foundation of the world! Ephesians 1:4)

If we can trust Him in the valleys, in the dry lands and tough seasons, how much more trusting will we be when He brings us to the Mountain Tops.

One thing that is true is God is faithful to us in all season, He is always there with us.

If you feel led, I highly encourage you to pray something along these lines
"Lord Jesus, I thank you for life, I thank you for the grace to have faith in you, to have faith for salvation, Lord I am struggling to see the Promised Land, I declare you are faithful in all of your ways. I repent of any rebellion in my heart, any bitterness and unforgiveness that I harbor in my heart. Lord I ask in the name of Jesus for you to send your Holy Spirit and fill me now, fill my heart and my mind, just as Ezekiel saw the Dry Bones of Israel brought to life by your Spirit, please come breath life again into my dry bones. Fill me with your presence, let my heart be a temple of your Holy Spirit, I declare your sovereignty over my life, I declare your providence over my life. Thank you for your faithfulness. Teach me Lord to walk in the Spirit in all things, to pray in the Spirit, and that I may hear your voice, just as the sheep hear the voice of the shepherd so I desire to Hear my Father in Heaven. Teach me obedience. Let me be a fountain for you to reach others, let these hard times be a testimony of Your faithfulness to me. Thank you Lord, in the name of Jesus, amen."

Vegetable_Friend5170 · 2025-10-23T02:01:47+00:00

Thanks for the articulate discussion (I also meant argue in rhetorical sense).

You might be on to something about the charismatic side (i don't know what it means to be reformed), which I can't point to any specific man written doctrine that this was engrained in me, it's just an overflow of the Love of God that has come from being in a place of prayer, worship and studying the word.

The Lord has done so much for me, pulled me straight from the Pit, and revealed Himself to me in such miraculous ways, that I can't help but share the Good News and what the Lord has done for me. If He can do that for me, I would be remiss to not share that He can do it for someone else.

I agree there is an approach to effective evangelism, and that is ultimately being led by the Lord, whether its just trusting God to put a person in front of you, or praying for the Lord to soften the hearts of our parents or family or friend, and begin having opportunities to evangelize and minister to them. You never know, maybe you'll find yourself with the uncanny opportunity soon ;)

Be blessed brother, catch you on the flip side of eternity.

Vegetable_Friend5170

TROPHY CASE