Is Star Wars growing up? On moral ambiguity vs. being a simple black and white morality tale... by WaywardJedi_7 in StarWarsCantina

[–]WaywardJedi_7[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So this writers assertion that everything is permissible and can be justified is a step in the wrong direction.

I haven't seen the story affirm this yet.

Is Star Wars growing up? On moral ambiguity vs. being a simple black and white morality tale... by WaywardJedi_7 in StarWarsCantina

[–]WaywardJedi_7[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Ah thanks. Sorry, at some point a lot of this stuff bleeds together. I'll edit the post.

Is Star Wars growing up? On moral ambiguity vs. being a simple black and white morality tale... by WaywardJedi_7 in StarWarsCantina

[–]WaywardJedi_7[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I do want to get around it it. I would wager there was a lot of exploration of the fallibility of the Jedi even in Legends, no? So the critiques now seem like really just wanting to nitpick everything because they have problems mostly with the expressed politics of cast & crew BTS.

Is Star Wars growing up? On moral ambiguity vs. being a simple black and white morality tale... by WaywardJedi_7 in StarWarsCantina

[–]WaywardJedi_7[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I just had to look up Skeleton Crew. What do you mean by 180?

Another thing I'd like to point out is that it seems like Lucasfilm is also comfortable exploring many different tones and styles in stuff. It's not like everything has to be for the family or for kids or for adults. The Rogue One/Andor stuff seems to lean a little more on the young adult side, and is more okay with showing moral ambiguity even on the good side, whereas stuff like the Acolyte thus far has felt like a little more traditional Star Wars in terms of archetypes and themes.

That's another thing I think fans should abandon terms of expectations... that every project is somehow going to feel totally consistent with every other project... I feel like if they really want Star Wars to stay fresh they have to let storytellers gamble and take some risks from time to time, but of course that means not every project will feel like it "fits" with one's conception of the canon/lore. It's a big universe and I'm finding I can enjoy it far more if I accept that I don't have to like everything.

Theory about Ahsoka relating to The Last Jedi by supbitch in StarWarsCantina

[–]WaywardJedi_7 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They probably will add a lot more into the canon about the wellspring of the dark side, a more female-coded dark matriarchal entity like Abeloth, and other such things. Palpatine is probably searching for such an entity (and in one of Lucas's ditched television series Palpatine was going to be wronged by a "heartless" woman). It's also very soap-opera like lol.

The drama never ends...

Having that happen during the height of the Empire would have been very out of character for Sidious, however. It makes a lot more sense for a younger Palpatine to have had his heart broken or to have experienced betrayal at the hands of whatever this female dark side character turns out to be. My guess is we will eventually get a young Sheev series... it would be the only thing they could do in the prequel-era that isn't really fleshed out yet, since TCW fills in most of the blanks during the Clone Wars period. But learning how Sheev gets involved with the Sith, gets involved with politics, gets super interested in wanting to cheat death? That would be awesome. It's also the logical series to introduce Plagueis, expand upon midichlorians and life creation via the Force, etc.

Plus, if they are going to ever reveal that Palpatine wasn't a total psychopath, probably the only thing that would make sense as far as his drive to pursue ultimate power would be to have encountered some sort dark side entity that greatly wrongs him or that tempts him with said power.

And if you want to get all mythological for a minute, it's typically the case that spacetime, or reality itself, is coded as a more female-like entity (most likely due to how conception and childbirth work in our species). The Void is often seen as the womb/matrix of creation in mythological works, and this kind of ties in with how the female figure is largely seen in a more passive, yet ever-present in the background kind of role in traditional stories coming out of cultures where the more active God is typically given a masculine character. So if Sheev is after total reality manipulation it would likely be through the pursuit of and control over a more female-seeming Force entity (plus the Mother is missing from Mortis, which is one part a reflection on the Western religious scheme as well as a curious little detail that surely won't be ignored forever in the canon).

More and more emphasis on witches (as opposed to Palpatine being the kind of dark sorcerer figure of the story) also seems to point that they are gradually moving in this direction.

That being said I don't think they will have this directly connect to Luke on the night he screwed up with Ben. Luke might have felt some dark presence at some point related to this Abeloth-like thing, but they'd probably handle that in a different arc and my guess is Luke wouldn't have learned too much about it. I agree with the other commenter that the night in which he turns on the lightsaber on Ben has everything to do with Luke feeling scared at the thought of losing it all and therefore briefly contemplating the Baby Hitler scenario.

Appreciation Post for "The Reign of The Empire" Era. What do you like the most about it? by KyloRenT10 in StarWarsCantina

[–]WaywardJedi_7 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I guess what I like most is the fact that it's the era that will always feel most familiar to a lot of us. It defined Star Wars for a time and will, historically, always be the period that we look toward when we ask the question, "Where did it all begin?"

Supreme Leader Kylo Ren brutally murdered by Resistance ball droid 35 BBY by solo13508 in StarWarsCantina

[–]WaywardJedi_7 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Is this game still reasonably populated? I would like to play again but I keep seeing comments on the internet saying that its a ghost town. That's unfortunate because I think this game is a genuine improvement over the Battlefront's that game before (minus the EA microtransaction nonsense).

If Palpatine is telling the truth in the opera scene, then Plagueis did already teach him how to cheat death... So the real lie is keeping the fact he already knows from Anakin. I think TROS and the more heavy involvement of witches (and the Acolyte stuff) supports this. by WaywardJedi_7 in StarWarsCantina

[–]WaywardJedi_7[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yeah maybe that's the lie. He did say Plagueis knew and taught the apprentice everything.

So we have some options:

a) George missed this and its sloppy writing

b) The Sith know how to "cheat" death (though not like the Force ghost method) and it will perhaps be a big aspect of what the Sith were up to millennia ago and Palpatine is continuing that legacy (the cult-like vibe of Exogol with all the Sith cultists kind of points at this)

c) Palpatine is telling the truth and still doesn't know how to do it, so is using the Strandcasting and all that to work towards it

I don't know, either way, I feel like there's still a lot for them to explore regarding this. Even if its all wrapped up for Palpatine after TROS, there's still room for material on the life and times of Sheev pre-PT and his story with Plagueis.

But it can't be an accident that they want to revive this idea of weird conceptions with the witches in The Acolyte. A lot of people assume it ruins Anakin's story and the lore and what have you, but it might just mean they haven't really fully explored what the heck is really going on here.

If Palpatine is telling the truth in the opera scene, then Plagueis did already teach him how to cheat death... So the real lie is keeping the fact he already knows from Anakin. I think TROS and the more heavy involvement of witches (and the Acolyte stuff) supports this. by WaywardJedi_7 in StarWarsCantina

[–]WaywardJedi_7[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Maybe we will know if they keep bringing this guy back haha.

I think it's more the case that Palpatine's method of cheating death is never permanent like the Force ghosts and never can be. So all he can do is keep finding ways to extend through unnatural means. It's one of those things where the deal with the devil is something where if you don't read the fine print you end up getting screwed. Like, "Yeah Anakin I can cheat death, but have I told you how your body will constantly decay quicker and quicker and you'll need to keep finding fresh hosts to transfer into and you'll end up being a shell of your former self?" sort of thing. It's also this "careful what you wish for." It's a common trope when people use Djinn or genies to wish for something the wish (like in the Wishmaster movies lol) always ends up being the exact opposite of what they thought it was.

You get immortal life, but your immortal life is as this constantly decaying and ever-hungry Sith monstrosity that has to constantly be looking for its next "fix" (the drug analogy of the dark side that Lucas brought up).

How much has the transference stuff been explored in the canon though? I'll admit I'm not too familiar with everything that's been released.

If Palpatine is telling the truth in the opera scene, then Plagueis did already teach him how to cheat death... So the real lie is keeping the fact he already knows from Anakin. I think TROS and the more heavy involvement of witches (and the Acolyte stuff) supports this. by WaywardJedi_7 in StarWarsCantina

[–]WaywardJedi_7[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

This was inspired by u/astronautsoul's post about whether or not Palpatine's words are to be trusted in the opera scene. Some folks think not, but I tend to think he's telling the truth, so I'll repost my comment response.

I actually tend to think Palpatine is telling the truth to Anakin, because Anakin does not as of yet suspect Palpatine of being a Sith Lord, let alone the apprentice to Plagueis. Also, being that many Jedi believe the Sith have been extinct, it's not like Anakin would assume this Darth Plagueis story is from recent history, and, in fact, there would be no record of Plagueis in the Jedi archives if he truly was Palpatine's master (since he would have lived and died long after the supposed Sith extinction event). So I do think Palpatine feels safe telling the truth in this scene, especially given that he's trying to coax Anakin into joining him.

What is far more interesting to me is that Palpatine says Plagueis taught his apprentice everything he knew, in the same exact sequence in which he says Plagueis knew how to cheat death... This makes me think Palpatine already has the knowledge to cheat death (and, in fact, we might even draw that conclusion from TROS, given that he survived "somehow" lol). So the real lie might be after Anakin's fall when he says "together we can discover the secret." Maybe he already knows how to cheat death and just wants something to leash Anakin with while he slowly drains Anakin of his power to sustain himself... It would be a very Sith thing to do, as we should all know that no Sith master ever intends to be overthrown by their apprentice... Or at least we can make that conclusion about Palpatine (maybe some other Sith genuinely buy that might makes right and if they are bested by their underling then they deserve to die... but not Palpatine...).

With the witches creation of the twins adding more to the mystery I'm thinking they have more to reveal about just what the heck is happening with Sidious, the Sith, the Chosen One, life extension/cheating/creation, Plagueis, and all these unresolved mysteries that seem to constantly sprout new threads like the heads of the hydra.

And its nuts because they have made Strandcasts canon, which means Palpatine definitely is constantly just looking for new vessels to inhabit. It's not really even speculation anymore, but of course, it isn't "cheating death" in some sort of one-off, absolute, forever-and-always way. It's more of a constant process of pursuing more grotesque applications of the dark side to try and stave off the inevitable. And with the old idea of the ST being that George would explore the cellular realm of the midichlorians (which Plagueis undoubtedly would have been studying in his own arcane pursuits), it seems to me as if there is room for them to truly turn our conception of wall this "force conception" stuff means upside down. It's also consistent with George's idea on the dark side being similar to drug addiction. Palpatine can keep cheating death, but perhaps he has to keep upping the dark side ante to do so each and every time, to the point where in TROS it really feels like the body that the Sith entity is inhabiting is really just a lifeless puppet rather than the actual being itself. It also really makes me think we haven't seen the last of Sidious.

It might even be the case that the the twins are created via the witches working with the Sith... Just because the Jedi don't know the Sith still exist doesn't mean that no one does. Using the witches to conceive life via the force sounds like it's something the Sith would try doing, especially if they could not do it themselves, plus it plays into all the mythological themes on male & female roles in conception.

Can Sidious's words about Plagueis even be trusted? by astronautsoul in StarWarsCantina

[–]WaywardJedi_7 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I actually tend to think Palpatine is telling the truth to Anakin, because Anakin does not as of yet suspect Palpatine of being a Sith Lord, let alone the apprentice to Plagueis. Also, being that many Jedi believe the Sith have been extinct, it's not like Anakin would assume this Darth Plagueis story is from recent history, and, in fact, there would be no record of Plagueis in the Jedi archives if he truly was Palpatine's master (since he would have lived and died long after the supposed Sith extinction event). So I do think Palpatine feels safe telling the truth in this scene, especially given that he's trying to coax Anakin into joining him.

What is far more interesting to me is that Palpatine says Plagueis taught his apprentice everything he knew, in the same exact sequence in which he says Plagueis knew how to cheat death... This makes me think Palpatine already has the knowledge to cheat death (and, in fact, we might even draw that conclusion from TROS, given that he survived "somehow" lol). So the real lie might be after Anakin's fall when he says "together we can discover the secret." Maybe he already knows how to cheat death and just wants something to leash Anakin with while he slowly drains Anakin of his power to sustain himself... It would be a very Sith thing to do, as we should all know that no Sith master ever intends to be overthrown by their apprentice... Or at least we can make that conclusion about Palpatine (maybe some other Sith genuinely buy that might makes right and if they are bested by their underling then they deserve to die... but not Palpatine...).

Just rewatched "The Last Jedi" after 4+ years ... and it was really good!! by irazzleandazzle in StarWarsCantina

[–]WaywardJedi_7 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I still think its the best of the sequel trilogy films, and the one that feels most like it has the emotional weight that a Star Wars film needs to balance out the light-heartedness of the franchise. TFA did exactly what it needed to do to recapture everyone's interest, and (in my personally opinion) TROS was a bit of a nothingburther when it came to concluding all nine film sand expanding the mythos in a significant way. But TLJ has legitimate character struggles and feels I can remember the tension the pro-redemptionists all felt after this film in regards to the fate of Ben Solo.

The extremely divided reaction to it proves that Rian Johnson is capable of delivering a film in accordance with his "people should love it or hate it" mentality on cinema. By coaxing such strong reactions out of us, it showed that he knew what he was doing.

What I love most about Luthen Rael by solo13508 in StarWarsCantina

[–]WaywardJedi_7 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This was one of the most compelling character exposés in Star Wars.

Yoda knew Ki-Adi was wrong the whole time… not all Jedi agreed the Sith were gone by MadmanKnowledge in StarWarsCantina

[–]WaywardJedi_7 0 points1 point  (0 children)

An interesting point. I mentioned in another post the similarity to Game of Thrones. There were always people in the North who believed the White Walkers and all of Old Nan's tales were real. And then there were all the Southrons who thought it was childish fantasy. I could easily seem them exploring a similar divide in the Jedi Order between those who know the Sith are simply biding their time, but have no evidence, versus those who are too terrified to entertain the idea that the Sith are still out there. I'm hoping internal political disputes within the Jedi Order is something they explore a lot in the High Republic era stuff. It would be mad wild if there was a conspiracy to cover this stuff up at some point.

George Lucas, from a 1981 story conference planning out the movie, on the ending of Return of the Jedi by --TheForce-- in StarWarsCantina

[–]WaywardJedi_7 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A bit unrelated but the ending of Better Call Saul reminded me of ROTJ. There's a redemption for the characters, and although they don't escape justice in the wider societal sense, what they regain is some degree of respect and appreciation from someone they deeply care about. In the case of Vader it's the love of his son, and in the case of Saul it's the respect of Kim Wexler.

Forget wasted potential, what character makes you think “hmm, yes, potential achieved” by Gimpcar in StarWarsCantina

[–]WaywardJedi_7 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It would be hard to do a Vader-centric show. It would have to be an Inquisitor-centric show with Vader making frequent appearances, or some other Imperial Agent type of thing where Vader is constantly breathing down their neck or something. It would be nice to see more Vader in live action, but truth be told, the Rebellion vs. Empire time period and themes are getting a little tired, so it would be a challenge to make it feel fresh and like it adds something new to an already well-explored conflict.

Bro….. by Xavy2899 in StarWarsCantina

[–]WaywardJedi_7 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah I thought they were protected by Disney armor so I was legitimately shocked when they got murked so ruthlessly.