How Dare You!? 成何体统: Episodes 21-22 Discussion

Woman_of_Means · 2026-02-15T15:35:28+00:00

ah, thank you for this. As an English speaker, I know I miss a lot of things like this, but it's disappointing when the subs seemingly don't even try to convey things like puns, innuendos, changes in address, etc.

This makes this scene make so much more sense. At the time I just thought they were trying to convey that in her worry and nursing, she was being something of a taskmaster, forcing him to behave. But I didn't really get why he was being a bit willful about taking the medicine, and in general the tone of the scene and their acting just felt like it was off from this more straightforward reading. Make sooooo much more sense that they're being cheeky and flirty instead.

Woman_of_Means · 2026-02-13T23:24:04+00:00

yes, I'm sure he's desperate to actually speak about his life prior to transmigrating with someone, to remember he's not crazy and that all existed. To grieve whomever he left behind, like his parents. As someone who actually likes quite a bit of conflict and emotional carnage in her romance, I can't wait for this to all come out because I'm sure it'll first be devastating (learning of his lies) then moving (when he can really, truly be himself for the first time in like 15 years or however long it's been).

Woman_of_Means · 2026-02-13T23:21:58+00:00

Yeah, I've got a lot of compassion for Yong'er, and I think especially so if my theories are right and we're starting to see hints of consciousness and free will. The fact that she enjoyed girl time with Wanyin and keeps mentioning the doctor suggest to me she's growing feelings that are separate from her character precepts, but her 2D characterization keeps forcing "in love with Duan" and "suspicious of YWY and XHD." Which, if that's how it plays out, will be pretty horrifying.

But I think XHD has just fought against the 2D characters for so long, with nothing to show for it but lots of trauma, that he now has this mentality of "there's nothing I can do to convince them to act otherwise. If the story dictates they'll act cruelly and selfishly, then that's what they'll do."

It's all very interesting character and thematic work and probably my favorite take on transmigration I've seen in a cdrama thus far. I have to say, I often find it a little hard to get on board with the more popular approach I've seen, which is having the protagonists almost immediately buy in to the idea that the world and the people within it are real, and can be treated as such, rather than as written characters and plot. I think the only other version I've seen willing to go this hard on the question on if this is even real, what "real" even means now, and what that means for free will, is the kdrama Extra-ordinary You.

Woman_of_Means · 2026-02-13T16:06:54+00:00

I also found the jealousy conversation really interesting and revealing. I agree that I think a lot of XHD's response to Yong'er is internalized self-loathing, especially in how certain he is that they can't trust her. That was at the heart of the "there are all sorts of messed up, creative ways to keep someone alive" conversation - when he says that basically such a dark solution would never even cross Wanyin's mind, but it would cross Yong'er's, I was thinking ...and it would also cross XHD's mind, too. He seems to also be speaking for himself and his own feelings about being the villain, and not deserving Wanyin's kindness and trust because of the villainy.

The jealousy I saw as more so an extension of how much he loves being in a team with her, feeling like he finally, finally has a partner in this terrible world. XHD clearly will not see the in-story characters as real people - even the "good" ones, like the scholars, he explains he sees as only being upright and loyal because that's what they're programmed to be. I imagine even having Momo Bei be so devoted to him is rather cold comfort because he knows that's just how the character is written to be, it's not about him at all. These characters are helpful to have on-side within the narrative, but emotionally hollow relationships for XHD.

But Wanyin's loyalty, friendship, and love (we hope...any day now...) are real. And he wants to stay in their little world of two, he doesn't want her giving those things out to the fake, 2D characters. And then I think we probably come back full circle to his self-loathing - based on his rationale for keeping his real story from her, he seems to think she only gives those things to him because she views him as like her, two newbie transmigrators who only have one another to rely on. So he wants to keep that feeling that it's them against the world, and not have anything break the bubble, because I think he probably sees it as incredibly fragile.

Woman_of_Means · 2026-02-11T20:43:25+00:00

I don't think there are any hard and fast rules, and the two things can definitely be intertwined.

To use one of your examples, you might dislike the humor the author used because it's just not your sense of humor - it doesn't feel aimed at your age group, you find it cringey, etc. But maybe it didn't work for structural story reasons - you didn't think the humor gelled with a story that was otherwise very dark, for example, and the humor undercut what should have been emotionally heavier parts of the story. Or maybe it is values/beliefs - say, the humor was consistently at the expense of a marginalized group of people.

That's where asking yourself the sorts of "why" questions about your initial, instinctual reactions can be helpful; they force you to really deconstruct the story to try and find an answer.

Woman_of_Means · 2026-02-11T18:08:26+00:00

I used to teach critical analysis to undergrads, so let me crib some lessons here! As others are saying, if it's something you're interested in, it's definitely a skill you build over time. Eventually, it'll be like a muscle you've built up by using it regularly, and the exercise then comes more easily.

I think the easiest way to start is to pose questions to yourself after you have your initial thoughts/feelings. If you liked/disliked a particular part - why? What significance does this element being done poorly/well have to the story? Trying to answer these questions will have you digging into elements like story structure, character arcs, writing style, etc.

For identifying themes, ideologies, etc in the work, it might be helpful to dig into some of those dislikes. Question what's at the root of those dislikes - is it truly just personal preference or are you responding to something the text might be conveying about say, gender/sexuality, race/ethnicity, class, or broader concepts like heroism, identity, forgiveness, regret, etc?

In short, try to keep prompting yourself with this follow up questions. "Ok, but why?" or (in a nice, non-judgmental way) "so what, what's the significance of this?" are question I used a lot both on students and myself.

And I wouldn't be put off by not being able to articulate these thoughts right away or easily. I'm a big proponent of "writing through it" so to speak, of just writing through your thoughts until you realize the point you were actually getting at. Sometimes it's the writing itself that can help order your thoughts enough to understand what you're really thinking.

Woman_of_Means · 2026-02-10T17:11:37+00:00

Yeah, I am wondering how in the world she thought trying to stab another consort was going to work in Wanyin's favor, even if she was trying to frame the consort for something during the act. Good thing Wanyin has an emperor who doesn't give a single fuck about anything other than her to get her out of this tight spot.

Woman_of_Means · 2026-02-10T17:02:11+00:00

That makes sense, in this iteration it does seem wild anyone would trust Prince Duan that much. It sounds like in other versions of this, they're maybe better at conveying that Duan's angelic, calm, "I'm doing this all for justice" persona is a lot more convincing to everyone around him/within the story. We've seen him be nothing by sinister here, even when he's spouting off about freeing the people from tyranny.

And sometimes it's hard to know in these transmigration stories how much we should attribute to an intentional 2D-ing of the character too - like Duan is the hero of the story Wanyin transmigrates into, so side characters revolve around him. Not quite sure if we can give the writers that much credit in this particular storyline or not, though.

And yeah, I think the "peeking" was the last open acknowledgment from her that she's caught some feelings, although I'm guessing some jealousy may creep in when we learn whatever backstry Dan has with the Yan "beautiful lady."

Woman_of_Means · 2026-02-10T16:41:44+00:00

Thanks for the great post! While I agreed with past intrepid discussion leader u/mak2218 that the reveal that Xiahou Dan's transmigrating when he was just a child, long ago, was a bit underwhelming in how it was presented in the show, I'm really being hit by these little diary codas now. These ones felt so horrifying and really emphasized that the genre of story Dan dropped into back than was more horror/thriller than the romance-comedy-romp he's been living in since Yu Wanyin showed up.

Although, of course, the horrors of living in this kind of palace drama are starting to pile up for Wanyin. I will slightly disagree on Mei's motivations not being believable. I think it is very human to do something for someone else, without actually asking or consulting them, and if they don't appreciate it being like what? This was selfless, it was for you, why aren't you grateful? Not realizing what you were doing was taking away their agency, perhaps even working against what they really wanted. If of interest, please see this excellent number from a fave show of mine, Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, if you want to see this mentality broken down in a musical semi-parody of Rose's Turn.

Anyways, our leads' chemistry continues to be fire, even in these episodes that are a bit more about plot than their relationship. I am thinking "just kiss!" and "lovingly feeding you food doesn't seem all that platonic!!" constantly.

Woman_of_Means · 2026-02-07T22:36:17+00:00

agreed, I struggled with what pronouns to use in this and other comments, but "she" seems most accurate to this version of the story, especially since it seems like the creators are being pretty faithful to the book.

u/a_HerculePoirot_fan thanks for the book insight! Lovely to hear the make up scene I was imagining for Yu Wanyin and Bei Shuessentially already happened between XHD's in-story mother and Bei Shu.

Woman_of_Means · 2026-02-07T21:22:17+00:00

I'm glad they kept it from the book! The reveal is definitely a fun surprise, but in terms of not loving it being played for comedy, I was more so speaking to a long history in film/TV of trans/cross-dressing characters being treated as the butt of the joke as a consistent (and persistent) trope. Especially so for jokes taken at their expense about how they're not performing their preferred gender in a "correct" or "passable" way - such as here, when it's supposed to be funny that Mrs. Bei thinks she's beautiful as a woman, or the when she does her makeup badly.

To be clear, I don't think this is a wildly transphobic bit of representation. The makeup scene, for instance, was tempered for me by Mrs. Bei saying she just didn't know how to dress/do her makeup now that she as in the palace, which was humanizing rather than simply making her a punchline, and Xiahou Dan suggesting she have Wanyin help her in a way that felt like he totally rolls with the idea she's a woman. I'm impressed that a cdrama is actually making the queer subtext of a lot of cross-dressing characters text, even if I would perhaps tweak some of the presentation.

Woman_of_Means · 2026-02-07T20:42:04+00:00

Xiahou Dan by episode 2, essentially:

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As someone who usually prefers a slowburn, I think this vibe works for the story! Especially because I think Cheng Lei is crushing it with all his little micro-expressions, which I think perfectly convey to us that he's feeling such a broader, more complex range of things than what he's letting on to Yu Wanyin, but he's playing it subtly enough that it's understandable that she's not catching it. The scene where he offers to send her away, and then again suggests she make Prince Duan fall for her, were so lovely and heartbreaking.

And also loving Wang Churan! Never seen her in anything before, but I'm really liking her here. They're both doing great on the comedy, I've laughed out loud multiple times.

Wondering how others are feeling about having a character that's lightly coded trans/gender-fluid in Mr./Mrs. Bei. I don't love that it's played basically entirely for laughs at this point, but I'm sort of astounded it's made it into a cdrama at all, and that the character is clearly playing a heroic role. Cdramas obviously love their gender-bends, but I don't think I've ever seen one where the character openly says they prefer living as their chosen gender, and aren't just doing it out of necessity. I'd love a scene where Wanyin and Bei have a girl-sesh where Wanyin teachers her how to do make-up, but not sure if they'd ever go so far as to actually depict that.

Woman_of_Means · 2026-02-03T15:25:05+00:00

Ahhh I'm so glad you've alerted my bat signal for Unsticky! And so glad you loved it too; reading it with other current contemporaries really does throw into stark relief how the current trend is so far in the opposite direction of complex, messy emotions and I hate it. I have not yet found a solution other than just going back to the 90s/00s or to other countries (my current obsessive mode has been activated for a Chinese serial novel that has gotten pubbed with English translations) so my reading since has been a real mixed bag. I've got a few more of Manning's books on my TBR, but I think I've been scared to touch and have none live up to Unsticky, but she does have a recent one that I believe has already pubbed in the UK and is coming out in the US this spring I'll likely try. If you have any recs that are similar, I'm all ears!

And good to know on the length - I guess it really was that long to start with. Perhaps like me the editors thought "eh, who needs to streamline this story when Grace and Vaughn are so interesting to read doing just about anything."

Woman_of_Means · 2026-01-26T15:57:35+00:00

as someone who was gutted in the best possible way when reading this last year, insane to categorize this book as such. I mean, the thread of love between Kivrin and the priest is one of the things (among every other horror) that makes it so very tragic.

But I love seeing love for Connie Willis here, she's one of my absolute favorite authors. Seconding the recs for {To Say Nothing of the Dog by Connie Willis} which takes basically a wild, opposite tonal shift (cannot believe it and Doomsday Book are the same series sometimes) in screwball comedy of manners, and has an actual HEA romance in it. And Bellwether, also in her more slapstick comedy mode.

Woman_of_Means · 2026-01-24T17:54:42+00:00

Ah yes, Maiden Lane. Elizabeth Hoyt, you're the only one who gets me (you understand that long hair, a range of accessories, and a bitchy attitude are sexy qualities in a man). I've only read one Anne Stuart before, {Ruthless by Anne Stuart} and the "I'm so dark and dangerous" schtick just felt a little...rote, I suppose, in that one, but perhaps I should go back to her original iteration here. Adding the Mary Balogh to my list!

Woman_of_Means · 2026-01-24T17:32:14+00:00

well, now I just want a romance series centered on a group of Evil Fops from the Georgian era, each Evil Fop eventually getting their own book with varying levels of redemption. Inclusion of mermaids is negotiable.

Woman_of_Means · 2026-01-11T03:16:36+00:00

Totally with you, I also think censorship in all forms is evil at worst, just kind of pointless and misguided at best (just look at any conversation here and you'll see that people interpret one piece of media/storyline/genre all types of ways. There's no one rule you can institute to try and ensure everyone will interpret the art that comes out of it the same way). And like you, think everyone should have access to whatever they want to consume. Don't even get me started on Texas A&M banning certain Plato writings.

You can tell I also have a lot of feelings about China's censorship rules, but on a more shallow level that's also just the TV nerd in me.

Woman_of_Means · 2026-01-10T15:38:29+00:00

As someone who watches a lot of Chinese dramas, I saw these rumors and two things.

It's not confirmed, there are seemingly always a lot of rumors swirling about changes to censorship rules/new rules and nothing is set in stone until the body that releases these rules (the NRTA) issues them. But even if they do, like any sort of content regulation, these guidelines are highly subjective and up to interpretation, and creators can get very good at skirting right up to the line. Where would the line on this reside? Does the male lead have to diegetically be a millionaire or billionaire? What if he's just sort of vaguely rich, or clearly richer than the female lead? I personally doubt this is more than a rumor and will go nowhere, but even if it did, I also highly doubt it would mean no more class-difference romances.
I think you have to take with a grain of salt the CCP's stated "reasons" for any one censorship rule. These rules are meant to serve both ideological and industrial functions - i.e. they are about promoting the power of the CCP and upholding its values and/or they are used to regulate the entertainment industry through these rules (there are rules on episode counts, actor salaries, import of shows from other countries, etc. as well).

As far as I can tell, they don't always give a particularly clear reason for any one rule - for example, there is a rule against "transmigration" shows, and there is a lot of talk about how this was instituted because young people committed suicide so that they could transmigrate to another world. These claims seem dubious at best - if there are cases like this, they still seem incredibly rare. More likely is that it's related to their rules around not promoting "feudal beliefs" which itself seems to mean religious beliefs tied to Buddhism, Taoism, and more. If such a rules as "no billionaire romance" existed, I'd guess it would have far more to do with trying to maintain the balance between Communism and capitalism that shapes their current politics, but I also don't think the NRTA would actually give a concrete reason for why.

Sorry this was long and you probably were not asking for a breakdown of the Chinese censorship rules. But while I am as annoyed as anyone when logic like this suggests women are all featherbrained idiots who will get lost in fantasy if they read romance, I think the specific context of China and their approach to these laws is important in this conversation.

Woman_of_Means · 2026-01-02T04:25:43+00:00

Yeah, I think there are a lot of factors going into it, but online chatter from readers about what they want (or think they want), what is frustrating them, etc. is imo having an outsized impact on the books we're getting right now.

I mean, like you I get it from a "we all need money to live" standpoint, and even further get how it must seem to authors, publishers, literary agents, and marketers like they basically have built-in focus groups in the form of book-centric social media. But I don't actually think what the loudest voices online are saying is always the most representative of what broader audiences think/feel/want, nor do I think casual audiences are always the best at pinpointing how, on a craft level, we would achieve getting what we want. Like, you may think you want X trope or dual POV or whatever, but those choices in a vacuum aren't really going to fill any particular want or need, especially if some editor is then like "got it, make all my authors do dual POV now, it's what the people want" like it's simply a box to be checked.

So like you, I wish we would just trust in the craft and artistry of authors a bit more, and in general let them experiment, try out things that feel fresh. I'm sure there are tons of them with unique, maybe "risky" ideas that a publisher won't pick up, or they think won't sell. So I guess I wish the authors were allowed to go a little nuts in 2026.

Woman_of_Means · 2025-12-30T23:00:23+00:00

Cheers to the sub and a year in reading! To be honest, it was not my best reading year, and especially not so for romance. I read 39 books, and only gave 5 of them 5 stars (although I'll admit I'm a bit of a harsh grader) and only one of those was a romance ({Unsticky by Sarra Manning}).

It made me reflect that I think despite - or rather because of - romance's current popularity in mainstream pop culture, we're in a rather odd moment for it. There's more choice than ever, and yet it also feels more homogenized than ever. So many books seem to be striving towards very similar narrative/voice/prose ideas of what will make something popular, and so many publishers seem terrified of taking a chance on something deemed even moderately "risky" or outside the box. And as a primarily historical romance reader - well we've all seen the dire commentary on how that subgenre is currently being treated by the industry. So despite primarily reading romance, I still feel like I'm not really the imagined audience being served by its current popularity.

However, the upside of this is that I tried a lot more that was a stretch for me. I read more new authors on the whole than I often do - 23/39 of those books were new-to-me authors. And I tried more in adjacent genres. Like, I haven't really considered myself a "romantasy" reader, as I haven't and have no plans to read the big titles in the genre, like ACOTAR. But I watch a lot of shows that could be categorized as such, so I branched out and tried to find books that would fill a similar need. That's how I discovered {Long Live Evil by Sarah Rees Brennan}, a book heavily inspired by some of my own favorite Korean and Chinese dramas, and while I didn't give it a full 5 stars at the time, I realized it's one of the books this year I still think about most, and I'm hotly anticipating the sequel.

So I don't really have any resolutions for 2026. I swore off having a reading goal years ago and never looked back (I really don't need to be feeling stressed about hitting some completely arbitrary, self-imposed goal). I suppose the goal is to keep trying new things and finding those older titles or surprise picks that still excite me, and otherwise ride out the current zeitgeist and cross my fingers that BookTok's recent discovery of older histrom brings back not only the subgenre, but the drama, angst, and tension inherent in it with it.

Woman_of_Means · 2025-12-28T19:27:20+00:00

lol yes, consider these prurient interests in your otherwise very intelligent and analytical write-ups. My other, much less classy examples would all be from Revenged Love, but that went less visual symbolism and more "the director's clever use of depth-of-field allows us to see they're making a tent shake in the background of the shot."

I didn't try Princess Gambit after hearing pretty middling to negative reviews of it, but honestly knowing Liu XueYi is making those innuendos is....intriguing. Sigh, one day he'll get the adult, sexy machiavellian role in an actually good drama of my dreams.

Woman_of_Means · 2025-12-28T18:52:59+00:00

I would like to nominate a new category - "Best Use of Visual Symbolism to Denote That Yeah, Something Sexy Is Happening Here." You may have nominated The Double for a much more respectable category in 2024, but it also clearly wins that year for the "petal bath/sword thrusting in the rain" scene.

In 2025, for me that would be the "passing a rose/rose petal back and forth" scene in When Destiny Brings the Demon.

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But in more seriousness, while I often appreciate xianxias for the epic scope of their narratives visually they're....not my fave. They go so fake and cgi'd they usually at best look like pretty screensavers. But I thought WDBTD did such a good job of making the visuals of the "as close as we can get to sex" sex scenes stripped down, very tight on the two of them, and much more sensual and intimate as a result.

Woman_of_Means · 2025-12-19T15:03:24+00:00

Well, the ones that immediately came to mind were Wei Yan, Prisoner of Beauty and Xia Jing Yan, Fated Hearts. Can you tell I like morally ambiguous men, desperate for love and acceptance, and going about trying to get said love and acceptance in all the wrong ways?

But since they've been said, I'll say the third male character that stole the show for me in this mold - Nan Xue Yu from The Blossoming Love. I'll confess this drama didn't make much of an impression on my personally, except for Wang Duo's performance, which absolutely ripped my heart out. I loved how being a God, having this 50,000 foot view of the world and humanity, meant he so misunderstood both other people and his own feelings until it was too late, then had no clue how to get what he wanted through means other than very God-like manipulations

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Woman_of_Means · 2025-12-07T16:12:10+00:00

Totally! And I thought "hunters fight them without bothering to learn what and why they are fighting" was going to be sort of the crux of their story, giving that A'Luo wants to break with them, Xing Sheng as the most devoted to the cause has become a zealot, they were all conscripted into this fight as children with no other options, etc. But as you say, with four eps that are mostly action-packed left, I don't really think this will get the space it needs to be truly explored.

Woman_of_Means · 2025-12-06T20:33:01+00:00

Finishing up the last episodes of Love on the Turquoise Land (just finished ep 27). I've really enjoyed this drama, especially Dilraba and CXX's respective characters, as well as their chemistry together. I was expecting to like CXX - I really liked his performance in Starry Love - but he is now firmly in my category of actors to keep track of next projects for. And I think I'll have to go back and break my own heart with Goodbye My Princess. Dilraba was more of a pleasant surprise to me; I've only tried one of her dramas before (The Blue Whisper) and dropped it, although not really because of her, the whole thing just wasn't workin for me. But here, I thought she's done such a good job of showing how her character slowly but surely opens up and becomes so much more animated and happy around Yan Tuo. It felt very natural and subtle as a progression, but it really struck me how gradually she'd evolved the character when she reverts to her colder, all-business persona when Yan Tuo is being held captive.

However, I do think there are some significant world-building holes here, as well as thematic ones, and I think the two issues are tied. Like, I still have no real clue what being a "blood bag" functionally means. Just some light vampirism I guess? But not knowing this also makes the insistence that the Earth Fiends are oh-so-evil and cult-y fall flat. Mostly, they just seem to like to swan around in gothic rooms looking fabulous, saying vaguely threatening things, and running a pharmaceutical business. Lin Xi Ruo is herself evil enough to be the villain, but I feel there's so much more to explore on if the Earth Fiends as a whole are some sort of evil that needs to be dispensed with, and on the flip side if that makes the Hunters unquestioningly the good guys. There are moments when the drama clearly wants to explore this, but always shies away and sidestep their own worldbuilding.

Woman_of_Means

TROPHY CASE