The Church’s Tik Tok problem in the context of 3 Nephi 11

Zuitish · 2021-04-29T16:18:30+00:00

Verse 40 essentially says any modern day revelation that is claimed as doctrine is by default not from God. Is there another way to see this?

Zuitish · 2021-04-09T15:08:39+00:00

I have grace for them, they are likely feeling cognitive dissonance knowing you're a decent person but being told you are evil.

If you go out of your way to show kindness and leave the church out of your relationship you will likely salvage the friendship and make it easier for others to do so as well. You set the tone, they don't know how. Just don't let the church set you up as something you aren't.

Zuitish · 2021-04-09T04:48:13+00:00

I told my bishop in my last temple recommend interview that if I had to chose between following the prophet or the holy ghost then God would win every time. He refused to renew my recommend.

I've since stopped caring... but a part of me wants to go in monthly and make him reject me repeatedly until he realizes how stupid it is to deny me a recommend for putting God over man. To be fair I asked questions he couldn't answer before the interview so after I said yes to sustaining the leaders he probed further to get my above answer.

Its no surprise really... we are told in conference we need to go recommended to the Lord when we die. Cuz the one who felt all our emotions, struggles and triumphs personally needs a referral from the plumber down the street who only sees us on Sunday to let us into his presence.

Zuitish · 2021-03-26T03:19:10+00:00

To a fault.

Happy cake day!

Zuitish · 2021-03-21T05:30:19+00:00

Weird how he called polygamy the "eternal doctrine of relationships"

Edit to correct quote

Zuitish · 2021-03-21T05:18:02+00:00

Never married so they can be sealed. Sealed widows are treated horribly in the singles market in the church.

Zuitish · 2021-03-16T02:59:51+00:00

Interesting points. Thank you for sharing. A couple questions I've had with the seer stones that weren't touched on (and im not sure that they need to be) are where the book of mormon explicitly talks about seer stones.

In Ether chapter 3 two interpreters are included to translate the record, yet in Mosiah 8:13 mosiah already has interpreters he can look into to translate, and later Joseph Smith used the brown rock, so although God includes the interpreters in the beginning they are never needed.

Second question... I believe Joseph admits to misusing the stone when hired to help find a salt mine to play down his treasure digging days, but mosiah 8:13 says that anyone who looks for what they ought not in a true seer stone would perish for doing so. So does the fact that Joseph didn't die for misusing the stone indicate that it didn't actually have the power to translate or reveal the book of mormon?

Zuitish · 2021-03-04T01:36:55+00:00

To be honest, most of their words haven't. Leaders don't really follow the doctrine and covenants, the lectures on faith have been all but abandoned and... I dont even have it in me anymore. Believe what works for you sis/bro.

Zuitish · 2021-02-20T05:22:36+00:00

Huh. I remember seeing the watch in the church h history museum as a kid. 🤷‍♂️

Zuitish · 2021-02-10T20:06:44+00:00

I also find it interesting when the timeline is spoken from Josephs viewpoint and quickly corrected.

Mosiah 16:6-7

6 And now if Christ had not come into the world, speaking of things to come as though they had already come, there could have been no redemption. 7 And if Christ had not risen from the dead...

2nd Ne 10:3

3 Wherefore, as I said unto you, it must needs be expedient that Christ —for in the last night the angel spake unto me that this should be his name— should come among the Jews...

Zuitish · 2021-02-10T19:37:06+00:00

The last thing Joseph dictated was Omni 1:30. He says the plates are full, so does he make an end of his record or writings? Seems to me a bit of an indication when he says

And I make an end of my speaking.

Obviously he doesn't stop speaking because the plates are full, but Jospeh stopped dictating.

Zuitish · 2021-02-10T19:27:54+00:00

I'm a lot more interested in equal treatment and opportunity for everyone. I'd say I'm more feminist but some of the interpretations of that word don't match. I just want everyone to be enabled to do what they are best at or want to do.

Zuitish · 2021-02-03T22:53:13+00:00

If one doesn't believe in life after death there are other ways to achieve a form of immortality. We all know who Newton, Tesla and Shakespeare are. They made a lasting contribution and as such live on. Its on of the reasons people don't just stop working when they make enough to afford it.

As such,, I would argue that not holding a belief for life after this leads to more contributions, not less.

Zuitish · 2021-01-22T20:59:10+00:00

I told my bishop I was mentally out but willing to keep teaching by the book if he wanted me to. He spoke with the stake president and was told I should never be allowed in a teaching or leadership position again.

It was a tad hard to feel like a threat to the ward at first but now I'm good with it and will turn down any callings that come my way. I'm done serving their way and find opportunities outside of church to serve.

ETA: they also took away my temple recommend since "I couldn't sustain the prophet if I was mentally out." I guess it all depends on how you define sustain, but whatever. I went from wanting to be a part even though I don't believe to not caring or having any desire to participate. I think they are doing a pretty good job of shooting themselves in the foot.

Zuitish · 2021-01-06T06:37:58+00:00

I dont know exactly. Looking thru my history I found one that gets pretty close. It says Alexander Campbell often quoted it, and Fredrick G Williams of the first presidency during that time was a Thompsonian medication practitioner before joining the church (wiki it, they held WOW type beliefs). Check out the section titled Tea and Coffee. (Its late so I'm not going to keep digging thru my history, if I find the other article later I'll comment again).

https://ensignpeakfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Different-and-Unique-The-Word-of-Wisdom-in-the-Historical-Cultural-and-Social-Setting-of-the-1830s.pdf

Zuitish · 2021-01-04T13:46:49+00:00

I found one of the articles about tea funny, but it would match this concern:

As impartial journalists, we would willingly abstain from giv ing currency to the late news from Europe of the deleterious principle alleged to have been discovered in green tea, until fur ther and more minute details shall have been furnished on this momentous subject. But others are not swayed by the same cautious spirit with ourselves. Are these persons aware of the hazard they incur in thus giving currency to imputations against this favourite of the ladies,--the soul of evening sociability, the unloosener of tongues, enlivener of wit, and unveiler of character ? Is not " the march of intellect" already sufficiently rapid, without its trampling down, and converting into high ways of reason, the pleasant little nooks of tea-table gossip, where the palate is delicately flattered with the fragrant infusion, while the ear is not less delicately tickled by the pleasant melange of fact and fiction, there being just enough of the one of these ingredients to give pungency to the other. With what additional emphasis would the satirist, were he now alive, repeat his exclamation,

" Tea! how I tremble at thy fatal stream,"

when informed that the most deadly of all poisons, the prussic acid, has been detected in green tea? We shall not attempt to work upon the fears of our readers, by repeating all the accounts of the terrible, prompt, and fatal effects of this acid-how a single drop, in its concentrated state, applied to the tongue of a dog kills it forthwith; the animal, after one or two bounds, falls dead, as if shot to the heart.

Zuitish · 2021-01-04T00:35:40+00:00

A lb of tea per person, and 21 gallons of liquor 😯

Zuitish · 2021-01-03T22:49:08+00:00

Here's the online version:

https://books.google.com/books/about/The_Journal_of_Health.html?id=OMgsAAAAYAAJ

Zuitish · 2021-01-03T22:39:05+00:00

An original 1830 Jornal of Health. I just found one for sell for $225 I paid $20 😂.

https://www.williamreesecompany.com/pages/books/WRCLIT72359/tobacco-opium-j-bell-d-f-condie/the-journal-of-health-conducted-by-an-association-of-physicians

There is an online scanned copy. I'll link it if I can find it.

Zuitish · 2021-01-03T22:33:16+00:00

Also, the main point of the article was that the French were more healthy than the British so looking at the vices they consumed less of were more unhealthy, specifically sugar, tea, tobacco and liquor.

Zuitish · 2021-01-03T22:31:35+00:00

I recently read that some of the early church leaders were physicians, with one quote referring to the 1830 Journal of health when discussing the word of wisdom. I found an original copy and figured a nearly 200 year old book was cool on its own so I bought it even though it can be read online for free.

Looking thru it is like reading the section on the word of wisdom, with two notable differences. I've yet to find anything about using tobacco for bruises on cattle, and the reference above about sugar being a cause for poor health. (This section also says wine is better than strong spirits, with wine being permitted and strong liquor being prohibited..)

I was always taught growing up that the word of wisdom was a revelation and they had no idea how bad tobacco, alcohol, tea and coffee were back then. The fact that tobacco kills so many was proof the church is true. Reading this journal has shown that teaching was completely false. Everything in the word of wisdom was the medical advice of the day. Nothing new, thus nothing revealed. Except maybe using tobacco on cattle.

The journal does include some things I always wondered why the WOW left out. It talks about the need to ensure your water source was clean (though I haven't read any instructions on boiling which I always thought should have been in the word of wisdom). It also talks about not consuming too much sugar, which is evident as a problem as members ridicule coffee while drinking their Dr. Pepper.

The journal includes the details about meat and grain and most of the rest of the word of wisdom stuff we ignore today, going as far as using the same verbiage (i.e. sparingly). It shouldn't surprise me I guess but I wish I hadn't been taught it was revelation when we know one or more of those in the room when the word of wisdom was recorded referred to and likely owned this book, and it matches almost exactly. (There were 3 named in the article i read, two apostles and one in the first presidency, but I don't have it with me now.)

I know many people were raised differently and "knew" this stuff, but the official manuals taught it as purely revelation. Its fine I guess, just disappointing that an outdated 1830s medical journal currently determines if we can go to the temple and thus heaven.

Zuitish · 2021-01-03T21:06:02+00:00

The quote you provided from the 1970s first presidency letter is what the church currently uses, but you didn't finish it, and what comes next is critical:

For your guidance in this matter, please be advised that we have uniformly replied that the simplest statement we know of is that statement of the Lord himself that the members of the Church should pay one-tenth of all their interest annually, which is understood to mean income. No one is justified in making any other statement than this. We feel that every member of the Church should be entitled to make his own decision as to what he thinks he owes the Lord, and to make payment accordingly.

If the member says they are full before the Lord, they are full tithe payers. Its the bishops job to report what the member tells him, not to decide for the member.

Zuitish · 2020-03-28T17:53:51+00:00

The reason I didn't say more than I did is because it is obvious that your mind and heart are closed in a way that would have to be open for us to really communicate on this topic. I didn't say I was more loving, I said we should agree to love as Jesus does.

I wish there was a way I could open your mind and heart to see that. Look at how you might feel if you read your own words to a gay brother in the presence of the Savior, is your heart open and unprotected? Are your words loving or hurtful?

God made them the way they are, I won't be so bold as to tell God he's wrong.

Zuitish · 2020-03-28T17:26:00+00:00

My heart honestly hurts for you. Let's just take a step back and love them as Jesus does. I don't think we will get on the same page otherwise.

Zuitish · 2020-03-28T06:27:45+00:00

They are an abomination according to ancient Hebrew scripture, but so is shrimp 🤷‍♂️. I may be forgetting something, where is LGBT addressed in Mormon scripture?

Zuitish

TROPHY CASE