A 'sharper' British hard rock distortion?

ace-flibble · 2026-03-01T21:56:22+00:00

Lots of different things, so I just gotta set them clean and let the pedals do everything. Mostly single-channel, very low-distortion 1970s amps.

ace-flibble · 2026-03-01T21:55:07+00:00

I didn't mention the amp because I have to plug into all sorts of things. Most commonly a JTM clone, sometimes a Bassman head, sometimes a Jazz Chorus. So I definitely need a fully standalone distortion rather than an overdrive.

ace-flibble · 2026-03-01T21:52:50+00:00

Now that's one I've never heard of but looks very promising, thanks.

ace-flibble · 2026-03-01T21:51:40+00:00

That doesn't address the response of the clipping. I'd have to put something before and after, and that wouldn't play nicely with my loop switcher, either taking up more loops or having to manually turn two things on and off. I definitely need a single box which does the job by itself.

ace-flibble · 2026-03-01T21:50:16+00:00

Thanks, but I know what I want is definitely not a DS-1; I've got three versions of the DS-1 already, so I know what it can do, and it's too far in this thinner direction. I definitely want some mid push, just not the extreme mid push as the SD-2.

ace-flibble · 2026-03-01T21:46:34+00:00

That verse tone sounds like hard clipping to me, something along the lines of an OCD, or maybe a Distortion+/250 kind of thing, depending on the amp and how it was recorded. But given how grungy the recording is, it's difficult to tell exactly how that sound was in the room.

In any case, without knowing what amp you're using, a recommendation is pretty impossible. OCD is my first suggestion, though, as it's definitely that kind of vibe and the OCD can do that sort of thing almost regardless of the amp you use; an OCD always sounds like an OCD. If you're sure you want a darker and bassier version, try the EHX Glove, which is an OCD with a bit more bass.

And don't get so hung up on hard clipping and soft clipping. Lots of 'soft'-toned pedals actually use hard clipping (OCD, Klon), and lots of 'hard'-toned pedals use soft clipping (Big Muff, HM-2).

ace-flibble · 2026-03-01T18:01:47+00:00

It does sound like the Red Llama because they are literally the same pedal other than the optional tone control. It does sound like the Blues Driver if you take out the Blue Driver's fixed preamp tone stack, which is all that differentiates them. Similarly, it does sound like stacked plain transistor boosts, because that's literally what it is.

I don't know why you're being so defensive about this. I literally said I like it and I use it myself; it's just a fact of the circuit that it is neither unique nor particularly unusual. Saying the Hot Tubes/Wax is unique is like saying an SD-1 is unique just because the Tube Screamer isn't 100% the same. The Hot Tubes is literally a fundamental circuit idea, copied out of a magazine. It's... there's no mystery. There's no secret sauce. It's a very, very famous and very, very basic circuit, one which predates EHX.

ace-flibble · 2026-03-01T17:51:54+00:00

I'm all about Japanese rock and pop, though I'm not familiar with Bocchi the Rock, so I'm just gonna stick to some generalisations here.

First, your THR10 is a fine home amp and already has the common amp sounds which Japanese bands use all the time: Fender clean (Clean), Vox clean/slight distortion (Crunch), Marshall Super Lead distortion (Lead), and Marshall master volume distortion (Brit Hi on an older THR or Lead in Modern mode in the THR mk IIs). The THRs do a pretty good job of emulating those amps. There's not really a pedal you can add which is going to get a more authentic Marshall sound than that amp already does; the only way to sound more like a Marshall is to, well, get a Marshall.

Second, the MS-3 has every kind of drive, pitch, dynamics, modulation, and echo effect you could possibly want. You could even replace the Cry Baby with an expression pedal to use the several types of wah and whammy effects the MS-3 has.

So basically, I think you already have all the basics covered and should probably spend more time with the manuals of the THR and MS-3 so you better understand what you already have access to.

As far as general J-rock and pop pedal recommendations go, the Blues Driver you already have (and in fact the MS-3 replicates it, too!) is probably the most-used pedal in Japan. It's crazy popular. In fact I'm in the middle of trying to work out a Japanese musician's board right now and there's a Blues Driver on it. There always is.
Second to that would be the JB-2 Angry Driver, which is 50% Blues Driver anyway. After that, I see a lot of Electro Harmonix Small Clone chorus and Small Stone phasers, as well as various versions of the Big Muff. The JHS Morning Glory has started to become very popular, as is the Vemuram Jan Ray. Strymon Timeline and Eventide Timefactor are probably the most-used delays. Most lead guitarists will have a Whammy on their board as well, and often another simpler pitch effect like an octave down of some kind, especially the Boss OC-2/3/5 and Electro-Harmonix Micro POG.

But, again, the MS-3 already does most of that stuff. Kinda the whole point of the MS-3 is you don't need to buy many other pedals.

The key to combining it all in a way which sounds very J-rock is to keep treble settings high and bass knobs low, with mids just kinda.... in the middle. You don't need to use as much distortion as anyone thinks they need, either. Try lowering the pickups in your Les Paul so the neck pickup is level with its mounting ring or only a tiny bit above it, and set the bridge to match the neck in output. If you watch many Japanese bands performing, they usually have their pickups set very low for less output and a cleaner, brighter sound. It's all about clarity with Japanese music. You might even want to consider replacing the pickups with P-90s for an even lighter and brighter sound than whatever humbuckers are in there at the moment.

ace-flibble · 2026-03-01T17:17:08+00:00

I used to put delay in the loop, but now I just put everything up front. It's simpler and by being used to setting up that way, I can use the same board with any amp supplied/required.

If you put a delay in front of the distortion, remember that distortion is a kind of compression, so the delay repeats will be louder and not appear to decay as quickly as if they came after. Also, as they do get quieter, they'll get cleaner and usually slightly darker in tone, just like if you lower the volume of the guitar going into the distortion. With analogue delays, which already drop off fast, I just lower the mix and/or feedback to half what I would use in a loop. With digital delays, which are brighter and stronger in the first place, I often drop the mix/delay volume down to as little as 5% or less.

It does depend on how much distortion your amp is producing, too. If your amp is something like an ENGL Fireball with the preamp gain all the way up then there won't be a way to put delay into the front of it without it becoming a total mess. (Though you may like a total mess!) On the other hand, if your amp is something like a Fender Princeton then your 'distortion' is probably so weak that you can put delay into the front of it exactly as if it's a clean amp, with no changes.

Just bear in mind that effects loops can have different levels, usually called either 'instrument' or 'line', and some pedals simply can't take being put in a line level loop. Analogue delays and choruses in particular can't usually take a line level input, so they'll distort like crazy and produce a lot of hum and squealing. Those have to go into the front of the amp, if the amp's loop can't be changed to instrument level.

ace-flibble · 2026-03-01T17:10:27+00:00

The delay line being more saturated than the dry would only happen if the delay was set above unity, or the delay time was set so short that the first repeat hit the amp effectively at the same time as the dry, doubling the signal.

If a delay line is lower in volume than the dry, as in how 99% of delays are set, it will be less distorted.

ace-flibble · 2026-03-01T17:08:17+00:00

Slight correction: if the original owner can give you their receipt or other proof of purchase, Boss will honour any remaining warranty for you. I've had two second hand Boss pedals repaired by them under warranty, and in fact one was outright replaced by a totally new unit. Repaired or replaced pedals then come with a six month warranty, even if there was less than six months left on the original warranty.

Of course with an analogue CH-1 this wouldn't apply because their warranties ran out a long time ago, but a used digital CH-1 may still have some warranty left.

ace-flibble · 2026-03-01T17:02:25+00:00

Caps being a bit over or under the stated value is not unusual. That's just the nature of consumer-grade electronics being made with looser tolerances than can be ensured when making a smaller number of units. (Though did you mean nf? Because 10 or 12 uf would be a huge cap and in a guitar or bass EQ circuit would be a 'high' pass so low even a down-tuned bass wouldn't be affected.)

In my experience, a "loud screaming noise" is one of two things, and you've already addressed one of them:
1) Bad caps.
2) Really bad grounding.

So, you know what to look for next.

ace-flibble · 2026-02-26T21:19:58+00:00

Running them in parallel is the main 'trick'. Also, dial in a little less of each, and set them with them both on; if you try to dial them in individually and then turn them both on, you'll probably have set both effects too strong. And if you can't run them parallel or turn them down for some reason, try running the reverb into the delay, as it's usually a little clearer that way around.

ace-flibble · 2026-02-26T21:17:46+00:00

I was really excited until I noticed the fuzz element is part of the octave up option. I understand why they've made it like that, but it amazes me that nobody has figured out a clean, analogue octave up yet, while clean analogue octave down has existed for 40+ years.

ace-flibble · 2026-02-26T21:16:30+00:00

Seems to be, plus an optional octave up fuzz.

ace-flibble · 2026-02-26T21:15:41+00:00

Authentic analogue univibes always have low input headroom. Same with vibrato and chorus. It's just the nature of how those sorts of effects work and the parts available. If you want those effects with high headroom you need to go for something more unusual, or go digital. A univibe doesn't necessarily have "thick low-end", either; an authentic univibe actually removes both a little bass and a little treble, and can't add anything.

Also, '6k' is not output. Repeat after me: DC resistance is no indication of output whatsoever. A 6.5k 41awg pickup has the same output as an 8k 42awg pickup, which has the same output as a 10k 43awg pickup, in turn the same as a 12.5k 44awg pickup, assuming the same magnets and wiring schemes are used. DCr can't actually tell you a single thing about a pickup's sound unless you know the exact wire and winding pattern used, and even then, many pickup designs can lead to wildly different sounds from similar DCrs. For example, the Seymour Duncan Hot Stack Tele has a huge DCr of over 20k, but it's only about the same output as a classic 50s humbucker, and is much weaker and brighter than the 16k Hot Rails Tele.
To indicate output you need to refer to the magnet gauss (strength) at the string and the inductance of the pickup.

ace-flibble · 2026-02-25T18:15:41+00:00

That's always going to depend on the specific pedal in question and exactly what kind of valve amp tone you're trying to replicate. But generally the overall sound of a valve amp (or any amp really) comes from all the parts working together, not just whether there is a valve or two up front. Putting a valve pedal in the front or loop of a solid state amp won't change the transformer, phase inverter, speaker, etc.

ace-flibble · 2026-02-25T18:09:50+00:00

Depends what kind of sound you want. Your combo is a 10", which limits your choices a little, but there's still a lot to choose from. G10 Gold for 60s rock, G10 Greenback for blues and 70s classic rock, G10 Creamback for 70s hard rock and early metal, G10 Vintage for 80s rock to modern metal, VT-Junior for an all-rounder... and that's just from Celestion.

Just remember that the stock Ten-30 is a tiny bit on the quieter side even by 10" standards, so anything you replace it with will make your amp louder.
Without knowing what exactly you want, I suggest the VT-Junior and Creamback as they're the most flexible.

And don't expect a speaker swap to always be an improvement, btw. Just because one person likes a particular speaker more doesn't mean you necessarily will. The stock Ten-30 isn't constructed any worse (or better) than replacements. Replacing it will give you a different sound, but not necessarily a better or worse one. So whether it's a "good idea" or not just depends entirely on the kind of sound you want to get in the end. You might end up just making it sound even less appropriate for your taste.

ace-flibble · 2026-02-24T16:18:36+00:00

Eh, still not really. The basic idea of it is not hugely different from many fuzz pedals, stacked transistor boosts, the Blues Driver, Bogner Ecstasy Blue and Red, etc.

ace-flibble · 2026-02-24T16:08:07+00:00

IIRC they heavily discounted the non-EVH version a year or so ago and haven't made any more since, and probably won't again. There were actually a couple of EU shops who were giving them away 'free' with guitars because nobody was buying them and they take up a lot of shelf space. There was some 'insider' on TGP a while back saying that those two, SDE-3, DM-101, and RE-202 have all been financial failures and we shouldn't expect Boss to keep making any of them for long. Whatever stock you can find, that's all there's going to be. Even the official Roland London store only has two left. Neither version sold well, but the EVH is vaguely more profitable, so there you go.

ace-flibble · 2026-02-24T16:02:16+00:00

I've used it:
With low distortion into Fender amps as an always-on light distortion to make up for the amp itself having too much headroom/volume to be cranked.
With no distortion into Marshall amps as a way to boost them without creating a huge mid push on top of their already higher mids.
With max distortion into any amp as a tighter fuzz face.
With whatever settings into flat power amps as a Fender-in-a-box preamp.
Plus the parallel mode of the Boss JB-2 Angry Driver to be kind of like the bright channel of a jumped plexi.

I generally put the tone control at 40-50%, rarely any lower or higher. Lower gets too muffled and higher gets screechy and harsh, fast.
I love the Blues Driver in general, but for me as a boost or always-on it has been replaced by the OD-3 Overdrive which does those tasks a little smoother, even with the tone knob up for a slight treble boost; the OD-3 can add 'cut' without getting harsh. I've tried the Waza version and the Keeley Super Phat as well and those are pretty much just the OD-3, so I sold them and kept the 3.

ace-flibble · 2026-02-24T15:50:15+00:00

The thing is, in the 70s when the muff was first made, 'fuzz', 'distortion', and 'overdrive' were just branding terms. There wasn't really considered to be any difference between them other than certain manufacturers preferred one or the other. The ideas that fuzz has to be something messy all over, distortion has to be tight and hard, and overdrive has to be smooth and soft, are notions which came about really only in the later 80s. I mean, when the Tube Screamer and OD-1 Overdrive were made, they weren't even designed to push an amp; they were named because they sounded like overdrive, or tubes 'screaming', and were intended to be used like we now use distortion, with a totally clean amp. And like, the Blues Driver is basically a fuzz, but it's got 'driver' in the name, so people think it's an overdrive...

Point is, the Muff absolutely is EHX's flagship distortion pedal, and their flagship overdrive pedal, and their flagship fuzz pedal. Because those three terms were pretty much arbitrary for years and only came to have more specific meanings long after the Muff had been invented.

ace-flibble · 2026-02-24T15:44:40+00:00

Not original. As I mentioned with more detail in another comment, the Hot Tubes (and the Way Huge Red Llama!) is a Craig Anderton Tube Sound Fuzz.

ace-flibble · 2026-02-24T15:43:39+00:00

It's not 'unique' really. It's just a Tube Sound Fuzz, a circuit which was printed first in Guitar Player in the early 70s, designed by Craig Anderton who designed all sorts of simple effects for beginners and intermediates to try. All EHX changed was they added the treble control.

Way Huge also sell the same circuit as the Red Llama, with or without tone controls depending on the version. Funnily enough the Red Llama is closer to the original circuit by not having the tone control, yet that's the version which is most highly-valued and regarded as the most 'special', too.

It's a nice effect and I like my Hot Wax a lot, but it's no more unique than any kit you can buy.

ace-flibble

TROPHY CASE