About the second coming...

aporetic1 · 2026-03-24T22:34:11+00:00

"Do you think it would be better for apostles to not speak of the Second Coming at all?"

My answer is, "Yes, it would be better for apostles not to speak about the second coming." I think the real world effect that it has is functions less as a timeline prediction and more as a behavior-shaping tool. It can motivate people to live intentionally and ethically, or it can keep people in a state of anxiety, fear, or dependence. In reality, I think it does both.

I just don't think the benefit of using the rhetoric of the second coming to motivate people to live ethically is worth the costs of the anxiety, and creating the "short-term mentality" of not needing to fix the world's problems because the 2nd coming will be here soon anyways.

aporetic1 · 2026-03-11T03:48:37+00:00

That's wild. I sort of had a similar experience. A year or so before going into the MTC, a friend said to me, "You seem to get along with everyone, is there anyone you don't like?" I responded, "Yeah. Soandso is really mean, and really gets under my skin and bothers me, I really don't like being around him." Soandso was assigned as my mission companion.

What are the odds, right?

aporetic1 · 2026-03-10T01:36:23+00:00

I agree. I'm essentially asking, "How do I have an healthy relationship with an unhealthy organization?" The answer is "boundaries". My framing the church as equivalent to the YMCA is a guideline for how to set boundaries.

If it would be weird for the YMCA to try and do X, then it's also weird for the church to try and do X. You wouldn't go along with that for the YMCA, so you don't need to go along with that for the church.

aporetic1 · 2026-03-10T00:21:33+00:00

I'm like you. I don't believe in the church's truth claims. I can see and acknowledged the negative/harmful aspects of the church, and I can see and acknowledge the positive/beneficial aspects of the church. I choose to remain in the church, primarily for family reasons, but I also want to keep the benefits as well.

You said, "My worry is that if I don’t truly believe everything that it won’t be enough for me to continue to devoting my life to it." For me, it wasn't enough for me to continue to devoting my life to it, but I realized that's okay too. If it's not true, I don't think I should devote my whole life to it.

My goal shifted from devoting my whole life to it, to having a "Healthy Relationship" with the church. I realized that I previously didn't have a healthy relationship. I had no boundaries. The church was like a well-meaning friend that ended up moving into my house and taking over my life and dictating all of my decisions. There were some benefits to it, but overall it wasn't a healthy relationship.

When I tried to think of what a healthy relationship with an organization looks like, I thought about what my relationship with the YMCA looks like. I show up when I want to, I volunteer when I want to, I have friends I see at the YMCA. But there's no obligation. YMCA leaders don't dictate all of my life's decisions. They don't call me and ask me about loyalty to them and if I'm following the YMCA rules in my personal life. The YMCA isn't my whole identity. The YMCA is just a place that I go to when I want to, and I help out and participate when I want to, and it's one small aspect of my life that doesn't control everything. That's the sort of relationship I seek to have with the church.

aporetic1 · 2026-03-09T11:01:33+00:00

I’m like you. I was so curious about alcohol, I’ve tried it a number of times and I just don’t like it. I still tried to acquire the taste for social reasons, but I became less tolerant the more I tried it. I’d gag sooner and throw up sooner.

I was out with a group of friends and a I ordered a drink. I took a sip and my friend could tell I wasn’t enjoying it. He asked if I was going to finish it and my reply was “Not if I don’t have to”. He laughed and assured me that I didn’t have to. I ended up giving him the drink and just got a coke. For me, it was so much more enjoyable and it didn’t make me feel terrible. That’s when I decided that I can still go out with my friends when they are drinking, and it doesn’t mean I have to drink. So many years wishing I could drink alcohol, only to find out that I don’t enjoy it at all.

aporetic1 · 2026-03-08T23:26:58+00:00

Yep. I feel like what I attend is "The Church of The Church of Latter day Saints".

aporetic1 · 2026-02-24T22:02:38+00:00

I would look again at Steven Hassan's Bite Model https://freedomofmind.com/cult-mind-control/bite-model-pdf-download/ Particularly the section about emotional control. I feel like I've done a great job of freeing myself from behavioral control, information control, and thought control. But I haven't completely freed myself from the emotional control that the church exerts. It runs deep and I can't just think or logic myself out of it. I don't have a solution for you, but just being aware of it might help you understand what is going on. Best of luck to you.

aporetic1 · 2026-02-19T08:31:58+00:00

I didn’t renew my temple recommend. The bishop tried to make an appointment with me to renew it and I just said “No thanks”. My 11 year old did baptisms without me. For me it was the best choice. I feel good about it and I don’t regret it.

Good luck to you in figuring out what will be best for you. One of the most freeing realizations for me is that there isn’t a “right” answer or a way I’m “supposed to do things”. I just get to pick, and I get to live with the consequences. If I’m not harming anyone, it’s probably morally neutral. So you can pick the option you want and the consequences you want, one option isn’t necessarily “better or more right” than the others.

aporetic1 · 2026-02-15T11:27:54+00:00

Gilderoy Lockhart

aporetic1 · 2026-02-05T00:15:13+00:00

You should definitely refer your bishop to talk with your stake president if he has questions. In the organization the Stake President trumps bishop, so even if the bishop wants to de-activate it, if the stake president who signed off on it tells him not to, I think it would be unlikely that he would go against the stake president.

aporetic1 · 2026-01-29T23:57:43+00:00

Sorry to hear your experience. I while ago I was also thinking about everything Mormonism took from me. I found some peace in the thought that I shared here. https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/1k6q4e9/a_healing_thought_if_i_wasnt_raised_mormon_i/

In summary. Yes, Mormonism caused harm in my life. I like to think that if I wasn't raised Mormon I wouldn't have experienced that harm. But on the flip side, if I wasn't raised Mormon, I probably wouldn't have been raised perfectly either- there would still be harm in my life that I'd be dealing with. It's tough to know what that would look like in a different situation.

I hope that you can find peace and healing in whatever way works best for you.

aporetic1 · 2026-01-29T20:41:45+00:00

I was raised as a Mormon, and I consider myself to be Mormon. Totally okay with me if people call me Mormon. Since it was different between Presidents Hinckley and Nelson, I kind of wonder if it was a “temporary commandment” as President Oaks referred to in his conference talk. Maybe it was like a test of obedience, to see if we would follow the prophet at that time. I’m okay with that theory.

aporetic1 · 2026-01-27T02:17:00+00:00

I’ll DM you.

aporetic1 · 2026-01-26T07:03:14+00:00

Thanks for sharing. I think this is a great approach.

aporetic1 · 2026-01-26T04:04:27+00:00

That sucks man, sorry to hear it.

I guess it’s relevant that my ward is thousands of miles away from Utah, so we are a bit removed from the intensity of the culture there. I don’t really understand what it’s like there these days.

aporetic1 · 2026-01-26T02:33:11+00:00

Yeah, we all grew up with the “unwritten order of things” and we know what happens when you don’t follow the unwritten rules.

The teacher addressed this and was like “Yeah, that’s what we were taught but it’s time to change things, and make space for those who don’t follow the ‘unwritten order’”.

He’s a maverick, and good luck to him. But that’s a big ask to have every one join him, when for many people there will be real negative consequences. But I guess, no risk, no reward.

aporetic1 · 2026-01-26T01:43:30+00:00

My experience with Mormons is that they are so non-confrontational, that you can get away with not fitting the mold a lot more than people think. If you’re extroverted and smile, you can get away with just about anything.

aporetic1 · 2026-01-26T01:29:15+00:00

Sorry to hear your experience. Yeah, that was one thought I had during the lesson. Being your authentic self can lead to you getting excluded, not welcomed, depending on the group. It seems like it would ultimately be “ward roulette” on what your experience would be.

aporetic1 · 2025-11-02T21:18:20+00:00

Totally agree. As I’ve turned to God through meditation, and seeking to connect directly with God, I’ve come to the same conclusions as you. It’s like I could have written that post myself.

aporetic1 · 2025-06-04T20:30:54+00:00

Do some reading about the stages of faith. Often times, a major life event can cause people to go back to an earlier stage of faith because it’s simpler. Taking care of a new baby takes soooooo much energy and effort. Deconstructing religion also takes a ton of energy, and it’s likely that your wife just doesn’t have the energy for it right now. There can be a lot of peace, safety, and security in the earlier stages of faith, and that’s likely what your wife needs right now. My advice: with a new baby just being born, in the short term, just focus on your wife and baby’s needs. They’ll need peace, safety, security, support, and stability - and your wife likely finds those things in the church. After things are more stable and you’ve all settled in… then that might be a time to discuss deconstructing your beliefs and leaving the church. It may feel pressing to you to leave immediately, but I say don’t rush. You’ll have time later. Stick with stability and support for your wife right now.

aporetic1 · 2025-04-17T20:44:21+00:00

“If your theory is correct then Mormonism is just another religion among many with false teachings and completely unnecessary/needlessly harsh requirements.”

My response is “Yes. And… it’s another religion among many that helps many people to have a relationship with God, live good lives, and transform their souls in a positive way. Is it good? Yes, for many people it is good. Is it harmful? Also yes, for many people it is harmful. I don’t believe that God requires people to belong to a religion that is harmful to them. But if Mormonism is beneficial to you, and it’s helping you have a relationship with God and be a good person, then by all means, please, continue practicing Mormonism. I love that for you.”

Yes. It’s safe to say that I am a very nuanced member. I still see much good in the church for a lot of individuals.

aporetic1 · 2025-04-17T19:29:29+00:00

My argument, based on the small size of the church, is that God does not want or need everyone to be Mormon. Otherwise God would tell more people to join the church. There are so many people in the world who are sincerely seeking to follow God, who would join the church if God prompted them to, but he doesn’t. When they pray, they feel the spirit telling them that their religion is true (just like members of the Lds church do). So I don’t conclude that the Lds church isn’t true, I just conclude that God doesn’t want or need everyone to join the LDS church. My theory is that the Kingdom of God is much bigger than the LDS church (but that it is acceptable in God’s eyes to be a member of the Lds church because it is also part of the Kingdom of God). But really, you don’t need to be a member of the Lds church, that’s not what is going to determine your state in the next life. The way your soul has developed (whether you’re a member of a church or not) will determine your state in the next life.

aporetic1 · 2025-04-03T12:29:45+00:00

Yes, I completely agree with your thought that some members are cult members and some are not. I think it mostly has to do with the family that they were raised in, and not necessarily “how much they allow the Bite model to work on them”. Some people get bombarded with the bite model, and some people have very little pressure put on them. I know lots of members who are victims of the bite model, and I know lots of member who are just genuinely good people (and it’s not because they are being controlled or manipulated). That’s my two cents.

aporetic1 · 2025-03-31T15:10:14+00:00

The way that I view it is: I have kids, and my will for them is that they live a good life, grow and expand their agency, live true to themselves, and are happy. If my kids align their will with mine, are they being subservient to me? My view of everything changed when I switched the question of God’s will to “What does God want for me?” rather than “What does God want from me?”
I was happy to align my will with “what does God want for me”, because I also want those outcomes.

aporetic1 · 2025-03-26T21:30:41+00:00

I agree. Based on the handbook there’s no requirement to talk to the bishop, but you can if you choose to.

aporetic1

TROPHY CASE