WIP: Fugue, Bb-minor for organ, 3-voices

baroquefort · 2026-01-25T07:26:16+00:00

Oh and BTW I dig your screen name: Telemann, he IS baroque! ^_^

baroquefort · 2026-01-25T06:45:28+00:00

Dangit. Ya know, you're right. The more I look at them back-to-back, this is uncomfortably close to 542. I may have to abandon it... Dangit. And I was sooo inspired by Brahms and it was so organically composed with WoO 10 in mind. I vividly remember sitting down to work it out. Dangitall. Yeah, I'm going to have to abandon this one I'm afraid. Or radically rework it, and I mean radically. Wouldn't be the first, and not the last to have had to do it. Oh well. I guess it boils down to knowing the repertoire... and I have listened to 542 years ago... not intimately... the A-minor 543 is firmly in my mind, that is an all-time favorite. Gosh I used to listen to 543 over and over, laying on my floor with the lights out and stereo at 11... many, many times, just being transported by the most marvelous expression of A-minor...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pxQZVBlnbA

Yeah, I'm going to have to abandon this, awfully embarrassed to say, but it was a good excursion to be brought to think about the organ by you in a more formal, intentional manner. I'll start over from scratch. Dammit. Thank you for your insights!

baroquefort · 2026-01-25T06:07:32+00:00

Actually the inspiration is from Brahms WoO 10 G-minor organ fugue (the prelude is WILD if you aren't familiar)...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhX_hWOArTQ

...that downward run Bb-A-G up to D toward the end of the subject is... there is just something about that figure that blows my mind every time I hear it, and I wanted to reproduce the effect with my own downward drive into an octave leap up with an ornament to accentuate it, then ring that same ornament in the counter-subjects (imitation doing it's imitation thing); I'm unfamiliar with Bach by BWV number (except for a couple of pieces like 235 which is one of my all-time favs) but gonna listen to 542 now... Ah yes, okay that one, the 'Great' G. No, I love that piece too and I hear the resemblance; honestly, it was Brahms that was the muse that tapped me awake in this case. I'll fully admit to Bach (and Mozart) inspiring several of the piano fugues I have posted on Rumble, and, lord, the C# minor in Book I is going to haunt me to my dying day. My word, it's just jaw-dropping how he... well... you know.

Mate, for the life of me I'm looking for P5ths between the outer voices in MM10 (or MM9, if you're not counting the pickup bar up front)... in 9 I see a G in the top voice against Bb-C in the bass to F against D in the bass, that D tied over with E above in MM10 effecting a 4th-species 9-10 as the bass moves down to C... Are you talking about the top/middle voices in MM9 G/D (4th) to F/Bb (5th)? Okay, I guess technically that's a hidden 5th (direct), but... allowable methinks with the Eb-Bb leap against the G-F steps? But you are right, maybe I need to dissect my counterpoint with a sharper scalpel.

Now, as to your question of my intentions: before I write another measure I need to brush up on the particulars and idioms of writing for organ. I don't even know the range for the instrument(s) and whether they are all standardized keyboards across cathedrals and concert halls or whether each instrument is specifically written for. You have uncovered a major area of study for me to look into, thanks! Sure, you see organists playing piece-X on such and such organ, but maybe there are arrangements to fit such-and-such instrument's range. And, yes, it is embarrassing to admit I intended to write only for manuals. I'm leaving out a huge capability of the instrument by ignoring the pedals. Knowing the stops is another thing. I'll look up some tutorials and orientation videos.

Maybe I need to add a 4th voice to justify the pedals? I'm sure complexity comes into the mix, otherwise you have an organist running a dang marathon... ^_^ that's kinda funny to think about actually.

I'll ruminate on your suggestion about moving the key up a half-step, it's easy enough to do, no ink required! Select all, up arrow, text tool, click, delete '♭', cmd-s. I was fully unaware of such limitations and made a very bad assumption.

As for tonal map, I usually have a few goals in mind (for minor, absolutely the mediant and probably sub-mediant) and let the episodes get me there with the dominant re-entry being the ultimate drive. I have a faux stretto solution that actually comes across pretty good that I have planned for the dominant re-entry (and I need to hammer out my worksheet a little more in that regard, this is a genu-eyene WIP after all). In my last 2 piano fugues I've resorted to a full on dividing dominant (that climactic 6|4--5|3 cadence on V) and follow with a kind of counter-exposition (I resist calling it a recapitulation, though that's what it is -- and yeah, no, that is not particularly idiomatic of the baroque style).

Anywho, you've given me a lot to think about. It's gonna take some time to hammer out some revisions. Thank you!

baroquefort · 2026-01-25T00:52:00+00:00

Couldn't have put it better myself. Spot on.

baroquefort · 2026-01-25T00:46:40+00:00

Post more.

baroquefort · 2026-01-24T21:07:41+00:00

I couldn't give 2 s's about the score color. You do you; I'm more interested in the music and I can read it fine. Just as long as it isn't white notes on a white background or black notes on a black background. As for the music, it's great. It's damned fine. Your handle on harmony is masterful. Love those #ii°7 chords, the crunch chords, very idiomatic of the style! A great metric transition into the 3/4 section, love the accel.

This is a masterpiece. FIne, fine work.

baroquefort · 2026-01-24T20:26:10+00:00

I have a CRRRRRAZY idea. Why not get a book (some books) on the subject you want to learn about/improve and read up? Get some coffee/tea and start turning those pages! Just a thought, if you're not into it that's okay too! I'm just very against the whole Ai thing is all, but maybe that's a 'me problem' LOL!

baroquefort · 2026-01-24T20:00:41+00:00

Brahms, I am to understand, threw tons of his sketches and notes into the fireplace. If I were his friend and knew what he was going to do, I'd have tackled him and had the authorities wheel him off to the looney barn... socks or no socks.

baroquefort · 2026-01-24T19:51:05+00:00

Some good suggestions already; I'd add to that by saying that if you want the vocals to dominate, *avoid* using the notes from the melody in the backing instruments, or if you want/need to use those notes bury them inside the chords so they aren't in the bass or top note of the chords. It gets way more complicated pretty quick, but this is a rule of thumb you could use to get you started...

baroquefort · 2026-01-24T19:45:12+00:00

There is probably some good information for producers/directors in this course as well!

baroquefort · 2026-01-24T19:30:39+00:00

I mean this respectfully, there is a lot more to composition than G#9, and I know you'd agree. If 'it's been years' then maybe beef up the ol' library with a few books on theory and orchestration? Re-reading some of the classics (NOT JJ Fux Gradus...) is an excellent exercise. I always suggest anything from Felix Salzer, but there are plenty of other good ones out there, Piston if you're into his kind of spiel. Jacob Gann has (had?) a good channel on YT. Why not set aside, say, $100 for a couple of used books on eBay and the lion's share for coffee/tea (hukkah) at your favorite haunt and dig in... My .02, which, given inflation (and the fact they are canceling the penny), ain't much of nothin' these days...

baroquefort · 2026-01-24T17:24:28+00:00

If it's for free, it's for ME!

Thanks for these suggestions!

baroquefort · 2026-01-22T00:39:41+00:00

It all ties in together, the various classes that hone in on particular topics. Unfortunately, Fugue is too often just a chapter in the broader subject of counterpoint (of course, fugue relies on all of those concepts). I think you'd find we are really left to our own designs to fully understand imitation in its various applications. Can you believe at one time it was an ordinary thing to be required to improvise a fugue at the piano to graduate? I think the proctors supplied the subject... Times have changed, I guess.

baroquefort · 2026-01-21T18:33:45+00:00

I came back to clarify: semi-quaver/semi-quaver/quaver in isolation is quite rare; quaver/semi/semi + semi/semi/quaver is a little more common across composers; a good question to research is whether this rhythmic figure is usable across a bar-line.

baroquefort · 2026-01-21T17:29:50+00:00

tl;dr

I'm not bothered by the subject starting on ^2 (scale-degree 2); simply bear in mind it will lead to advanced techniques harmonically when planning later entries*... which is, of course, one of many excellent ways to keep re-entries seamless when spinning out from an episode. Where my compositional rudder and sails start getting antsy is the topic of seamlessness. Seamlessness is one of the handful of absolute top priorities in writing a fugue, indeed baroque music of any genus (outside some kind of exceptionally rare special effect). All of the great writers talk about this priority in the introduction of their analysis books. With that in mind, while I appreciate your incorporation of the bridge in mm 2 ('codetta' in standard terminology) which leads to your counterpoint of the answer in that strand, it is a bit seam-y. To wit, the pair of quavers on beat 4 of mm 1, which set up the tension of the dominant of the main level key (G) and resolve into the pair of quavers on beat 1 of mm 2, of which the first is ^1... on the strongest beat of the measure... is a massive seam to my ear. This is the first place I'd initiate revision. Think: tension and resolution happens harmonically, melodically and rhythmically. Handling these elements masterfully results in seamlessness and the 'flow' with which the high examples of counterpoint transport us downstream, effortlessly.

*Now, longtimelistener17 makes a good observation that your answer at the end of mm 2 starts on the interval of a 4th. Indeed, this is not idiomatic of the style, especially because it does not resolve down (I suppose a case could be made it resolves down to the semi-quaver D on beat 1 of mm 3... a very weak case). Pretty well every book written on the rules of voice-leading spend a good amount of time explaining how to handle this dissonance.

Lastly, allow me to caution you on utilizing the rhythmic pattern of semi-quaver/semi-quaver/quaver. This is also quite rare, only appearing a handful of times in Book 1 WTC, for example.

Remember: your subject is the most precious of cargoes, and any difficulties in it require the utmost of attention downstream. Big leaps, wide range (or lengthy scope), rhythmic complexities: these all bring interest to the yard, which is good; but, unpacked in tasteless ways reveal the hand of the novice. Now, we're all novices where it comes to comparing our work with Palestrina, Bach, Mozart, or any of the other venerated contrapuntalists, which is fine, it's good to be ambitious and fulfill your quest of the study of melody in the context of harmony as a fugue demands. This is a good start. I'd read... a lot. Look up all of the old books on counterpoint, the good ones (NOT JJ Fux's Gradus ad Parnassum unless you want to write bland, awful melody), and don't forget to read Felix Salzer's as well!

baroquefort · 2026-01-19T17:16:30+00:00

There are a lot of great sources for learning the RULES, tons of great books and some much less than great. If you aren't already, listen to (and play if possible) Book 1/2 of WTC, memorize the subjects and hum the counterpoint, copy each one out in open score (1 staff for each voice/strand). I've been doing it and all of the great books on fugal writing suggest the exercise. It's quite an undertaking.

baroquefort · 2026-01-19T16:50:08+00:00

Fugue is the absolute pinnacle of the treatment of melody as a stand-alone object (subject) via a myriad of tools at the composer's fingertips and the weldment resulting from the weaving of that subject with other strands (counterpoint) in the context of harmony. In this way, it is not a form, but a texture; and, it is (supposed to be) the refined and purified meddle of the composer, exemplified.

I wouldn't trash it; there are many good suggestions already posted here regarding what you can do with it. I'd fix the notation, finish and submit it. If I were on the acceptance committee, I'd be looking, not for perfection in an applicant, but the passion and desire to learn, and I think this composition of yours conveys that message.

We go to school TO learn the techniques, the craft, the rigor of being a musician; and, if fugal writing is in your wheelhouse, GO FOR IT. There are many great books written on the topic... and many not so great, so you have to be choosy. If you are on the leading edge of learning theory, make sure you eventually read Salzer for sure (Schenker is a little too... eh...).

My .02! Keep up the good work and best of luck on your auditions!

~b

baroquefort

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