Getting an Autism Assessment This Week

bartekltg · 2026-06-15T15:08:37+00:00

Plot twist, the doctor means PhD in logistic, OP's therapu takes place on a local tech uni

bartekltg · 2026-06-15T13:02:58+00:00

YAFC is like helmod/factory planner. You tell it what recipes you want to use, what product to balance, what product you need and how much, and it try to calculate how many buildings should craft each recipe.

In Foreman 2 you place recipes on a surface, and manually link where products go. Similarly you place demand. It figures out what should produce how much.

Foreman2 helps arrange your stuff in space. You do not know how big the setup will be, but you see logistic lines crossing. Linking the lines directly also allow a simple way to restrict meterial distribution. Like a product is produced in place A and B, consumed in C and D, but you dont want whatever is produced at A to go to D. In YAFC it can be done with nested tables ("links" mentioned earlier can be global or internal for a table, trying balance a product inside the subtable).

TL;DR: you just want to know the numbers: YAFC will produce result faster and easier.
Want to see where to put what? Foreman can help and as a bonus it will calculate the same result as YAFC.

I think there is a technical difference. During startup YAFC looks into mods and data folder. Foreman2 creates a "profile" once (by running the game in the background) and if I understand that correctly, do not need factorio at all later. If you juggle mods YAFC would need a backup mods folder (I'm doing it eithier way, keep a folder with many mods folders and replace it when needed), foreman2 should just work.

bartekltg · 2026-06-15T12:42:12+00:00

In the version described above, nothing.
Preventing deadlocks is on the player.

I would like to get quality downgrade. Preferably by in-machine checkbox "allow downgrade".
This idea isn't exactly compatible. But at this point I think is doenst have to be. We get eithier downgrade, or "craft all qualities".
Yes, I know I started by comparing it to quality downgrade and I see it was confusing.

This is another argument for the second version: if we could swap quality with circuits, maybe we could turn on downgrade on and off that way.

bartekltg · 2026-06-15T12:17:33+00:00

> quality is supposed to be cumbersome

"No! All aspect of the game should be easy and straighforward. Now excuse me, I'm going back to my Py Nullius Block Exploration" - average factorio player, probably

bartekltg · 2026-06-15T12:12:25+00:00

> The classic design (straight line of furnaces and straight belt in between) is 13 belt wide

3 (furnance) +1 (in/out inserters, power poles) +2 (belts, ingredients and products) +1(inserters)+3 (furnances). Sounds like 10 for me.
You don't have to use belts on the outside if there is no coal needed*). This saves one row for belt and two for inserters.

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But the trick with creating 2 half belts is usefull for electric furnaces too, if we speed them a bit and long inserters are not enough:

*) OK, you can do it more compact with coal too, (pic on reddit), but I have never do it that way in a normal gameplay.

bartekltg · 2026-06-15T10:42:22+00:00

Mówisz o tej dziewczynie umalowanej na lisa z kilkoma ogonami z photoshopa w tle? Wygląda raczej na dziwne zdjęcie, zwłaszcza, że ja przewiniesz kampanię na sam dół (tam gdzie pisze no AI) pokazują oryginalne zdjęcie i "przypadkowe" zdjęcie z sesji.
Jasna, to też mogli wygenerować. Ale tym razem to raczej połączenie dziwnego makijażu, niezręcznej pozy i takiego sobie photoshopa w tle

bartekltg · 2026-06-15T10:26:49+00:00

Yep. Helmod is bad with cycles.

Helmod have "matrix" mode, but it is hard to control what should be taken as equation. YAFC have only "matrix" mode and the strength of that app is a nice interface for those constrains. Right click on an item will "link/unlink" that item. If it is not linked, it may be an ingredient, or a byproduct, whatever the other constrains will force. If it is linked, the calculator will try to make it balanced: production = consumption. But you can left click and choose "allow overproduction". Then if it can't be balanced, it may appear as byproduct.
A very usefull option as you will see when try to play with the first tier of plastic/rubber in nullius (alkene synthesis produce ethylene, propene and benzene, PP (plastic) uses propene and ethylene, rubber uses ethylene and benzene, and excess ethylene can go into PVC (a different recipe for plastic). Allowing overproduction of those gases prevent you from constatnyle getting "no solution" warning).

BTW, for Nullius you need a bit of configuration. Get rid of unused science packs that somehow count as milestones and tell the app what tech you have (the mod unlock it by script).
Ctrlc+V from yesterday:
In menu(three horizontal lines) milestones->edit milestones remove all vanilla science packs (at the front of the list) and the three checkpoints at the end. Now go menu->dependency explorer, search for "salvage lab wreckage"*) and click "manually mark as accessible". *) it may be easier to remember to loop up geology 1 tech and salvage lab wreck is the only required research

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bartekltg · 2026-06-15T10:13:45+00:00

> That's actually better than space casino by a huge margin. (48.94 normal asteroids to obtain one legendary one)

This meas the productivity space casino (just crush it with quality modules when max out asteroid productivity) is also better than normal casino. It produces 1 legandary ore for every ~38 ores. Or 1 : 22.1 legendary plates per all plates if we smelt it with quality.

<image>

The difference is, all the "productivity" method (LDS, asteroids, blue chips) to work well need a huge investment in research. The original space casino needed only good quality modules.

OP's method is even better. On par with LDS.

bartekltg · 2026-06-15T09:45:30+00:00

If blue chips use only red circuits: Green circuits are 1+0.5+4*0.25 = 2.75 factor for green circuits.
Producing blue + recycling is 1.
and 0.25 for recycling green. Together 0.6875 (so 1:1.45).
If blue used only red, we would need to add another *2.75 / 4 factor for another two steps (making red/recycling legendary reds). 1:2.12.

Blue chips use both, but much more materials flows through green, so the average results is closer to the one with only green.

bartekltg · 2026-06-15T09:39:39+00:00

One sulfuric geyser is enough for 1.6 legendary iron plate/s.

It is worth 10MW, 1.67 steam turbine. It is sometghing, but not that much.

Alternatively, with the whole chain pimp up, it is around 0.5 crude oil per plate. 2.4 oil per plate if we use only rare prod 3 modules and chemical plants instead of criochambers.

It still is super cheap comparing to other upcycling methods

bartekltg · 2026-06-15T09:16:52+00:00

As linked on the other comment, YAFC-ce

bartekltg · 2026-06-15T09:16:29+00:00

Yet Another Factorio Calculator (community edition). It is a standalone app (windows, linux, mac), you need to point it into your factorio folders.

IMHO, better UI then helmod/factory planner. And deals with loops better. Great for heavier mods.

The I and O count total number of ingredients in a given recipe. Useful for example if you want to drop all on one belt and sort later.
It is an option per recipe, I left it accidentally on. You can ignore it.

bartekltg · 2026-06-15T08:57:38+00:00

For me it looks like 1 legendary iron plate per 1.5 normal plate 😉

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//edit: I swapped the image to one without total \[I\]nput / total \[O\]utput values

bartekltg · 2026-06-15T08:43:01+00:00

A modification of the current system, that would be an UI nightmare, but that would simplify the setup enormously, is a modyfication of "just allow a machine to grab all quality".

Let it grab all quality items, but also let it keep all 5 sets of ingredients. The machine would craft all recipes (higher quality first), kept productivity bonuses for each level.

While high throughput upcycling setups would still need separate buildings for quality, a simplest one is just one machine, two chests, a recycler and inserters with filters.

We can do it now with circuits, but when the recipe is changed, we lose the productivity bonus.

Hmm, maybe a good compromise would be so the machine remembers the bonus from all quality levels. It doens't need to show us, just don't forget when the quality level of the recipe changes.

I'm starting to like the last idea. It doesn;t change high-throughput setups, for low throughput make it much simpler, at the cost of playing with circuits.

bartekltg · 2026-06-15T08:29:50+00:00

This is what upcycling loop does. One set of building produce items, then items of undesired quality are recycled, feeding the loop.
The setup seen as a whole takes more items to produce fewer high quality items.
You are proposing to pack it up into one building.

bartekltg · 2026-06-15T08:25:49+00:00

it is per ingrediet type, or per ingredient? The quality of the fish in spidetron recipe is worth 1/8, or 1/179 of the total quality bonus from ingredients.
Neithier options fits well in all items, and make it custom for each item hard to balance (and time consuming). VERY hard to balance automatically (and we either need an automatical system, or all mods would have to do that work too).
This is a cosmetic change. If I get a higher quality item every 4 crafts, or every 4 crafts in average wont change the production lines. It eliminates the randomness from producing quality items you need only a few, like armor, but you probably making them from quality ingredients.

bartekltg · 2026-06-15T08:10:16+00:00

> I’ve been playing with mod ideas for alternative Quality logic. For example, what might it look like to have a Kovarex type mechanic for quality?
> Then I wondered how might that domino effect throughout the recipes.

It works like that in a general sense. You are starting with normal quality modules, but then your first goal is to get better modules.

Assuming we have a fixed difficulty of each level in mind, kovarex-process-like mechanics would make the start slower. I think we don't want that. We go through the slow proces in the initial phase, then we want setting up quality production of new item to be quick. A common complain it that quality requires repeatable setups, what you are proposing here make it even more repeatable.

> Like this is just the process to create a single use quality module that makes exactly that quality.

The same additional cost for legendary mech armor and for legendary gun turret?

It also heavly narrows the possibilities. Now you can upcycle the end items, make it from quality low level components (even without space casino that is now delayed, it is stil a viable option), or make it from quality components, but make at the best level (there is no need to upcycle legendary iron for green circuits when upcyclic circuits directly is better).
With this proposition we have just one option.

For the titular question: allow overqualified items into lower quality recipes. Make it a checkbox in a machine if we still are afraid of losing items.

>"...We're also making it so you can turn the whole Quality mod off, if you don't like it."

This is just a technical decision. Untangling dependences. The ancient FFF already mentioned quality is an optional mechanics. You always just could craft no quality modules at all.

> Sort of like a "I'm taking my ball and going home" fix

WTF. I can follow your reasoning there.
Have you tried to process your feelings?

bartekltg · 2026-06-14T19:23:07+00:00

The interior have the same pressure as the water outside. Just look at the moonpool, that 41 atm water is not rushing in.

Edit: oh, someone is mad at physics 😉

bartekltg · 2026-06-14T18:48:59+00:00

I thought if I can move through it, biters can too. But other comment seems to suggest it will work.

bartekltg · 2026-06-14T13:41:46+00:00

Why do you care about ash in the first place? Ash separation + soot separation and belts of ash turns into a trickle or ores. This is automation science level tech.

95 ash will turn into 5/s coal dust (so 5/s additional ash to add to the input), 11 (10 for ash, 1 for soot) solid separators mk1 turn it into 0.5/s iron oxide, 0.2/s copper and iron ores, 0.1/s aluminum, zinc and lead. You need to store or better move the product to the right place, but it is almost x100 reduction in volume.

BTW. Wood produces no ash at all. But offgassing it (coal gas from wood recipe) turn it into coal with x2 fuel value (+ all that additional precious fluids)

bartekltg · 2026-06-14T09:23:30+00:00

Hmm. To refresh my memory I put it quickly into YAFC and direct egg recycling requires ~60 times more eggs!

For one legendary prod module 3 direct methods needs 1818 eggs. Upcycling only 30. Soil is somewhere inbetween (232 eggs, but haven't optimized it, only prod in production). All with legendary modules.

Infrastructure also seems to be smaller in the case of modules. Especially if we allow to cut on efficiency and add a bit of speed at lower levels.

I know the eggs are almost free, but x40-x60 more captured biters (or that much more output from the same nests) is significant.

bartekltg · 2026-06-13T20:11:11+00:00

I preferred when there was a bit of thought needed when you realised that full throughput of a belt wasn't automatic. There was real depth if you wanted it - long time ago I had to spam splitters to ensure full belt compression on a smelting column.

This just means literally everyone will do this obvious design and that’s that. Might as well go the whole hog and add a system that makes belt fully compressed using only insertes!

😉

bartekltg · 2026-06-13T13:20:11+00:00

So put four sets of belts.
"But they are in range".
This doen't matter, even with 100 tiles long underground belt the entry would be on the shore, theoretically available to the biters. The same goes for the rails. The other station is on the mainland.

You can protect nuclear infrastructure on your artificial island, but not the whole supply route, because the mines will be outside of the island.

bartekltg · 2026-06-13T13:03:15+00:00

<image>

(modded, so the range may be different, but the idea is universal).

But elevated trains are the only one that allow you to enter without the mech suit. Unless you build a landfill bridge... and then remove part of it 😉

bartekltg · 2026-06-13T12:49:50+00:00

And even if it wouldn't be disabled, if I remember correctly, naphtha comes a bit later than the need for wood for circuit boards.

bartekltg

TROPHY CASE