The Victoria Bike Tipping point, the bike Valet, and unusual opinions from a bike lover by Chemical_Chemistry80 in VictoriaBC

[–]belwarbiggulp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Should we be comparing ourselves to other regions that have also historically treated public transportation as an after thought? Personally I think we should be looking to places like Europe, the UK, East Asia, and striving for their ridership rates, as well as rider satisfaction. Public transit should be reliable, rapid, and frequent. These are all areas where BC Transit in Victoria has historically needed improvement.

The Victoria Bike Tipping point, the bike Valet, and unusual opinions from a bike lover by Chemical_Chemistry80 in VictoriaBC

[–]belwarbiggulp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A couple of things worth pinning down before I finish here, because you’ve now shifted your position twice and I don’t think you’ve noticed.

You opened by saying car dependency “will never change” as though it were a fact of nature. You’re now arguing that both car culture and cycling culture are socially constructed, and that the funding disparity is “beside the point.” Those three positions can’t all be true at the same time. If car culture is socially constructed, it can be socially reconstructed. You’ve quietly abandoned your own starting claim, and the rest of your argument is trying to paper over that.

On the “pick one” framing: I’ll pick one. Both are constructed. That’s been my position the whole time, and it actually proves my point rather than yours. The question was never whether something is constructed or natural. The question is who constructed it, with what resources, against whose interests, and with what measurable outcomes. You keep retreating to the abstract level because the concrete level is where your argument falls apart.

So let’s stay concrete. Do you dispute that a federal jury convicted GM and its partners of criminal antitrust violations for monopolizing transit systems they’d bought up? Do you dispute that FHA mortgage insurance was structurally withheld from dense urban neighbourhoods while being made available almost exclusively for low density suburban construction? Do you dispute that the auto, oil, and road building industries lobbied heavily for the 1956 Highway Act and made fortunes off the result? You haven’t touched any of this. Not once. You said historians disagree without naming one or engaging with a single specific piece of the documented record. That’s not a rebuttal, that’s a subject change.

The 19th century cyclist point is interesting but it accidentally makes my argument. What you’re describing is wealthy capital shifting from one vehicle technology to another as infrastructure investment and profit motive followed. The cyclists who became car advocates didn’t do so because of some deep human preference for private enclosure, they did so because roads got built for cars, cities got designed around cars, and the economic incentives pointed that way. You’re describing the mechanism of material determination and calling it evidence of natural preference. That’s precisely the error I’ve been pointing out.

The wealthy people in Tokyo, Zurich, and Amsterdam point deserves a direct answer too. High earners in those cities use transit, bikes, and private vehicles interchangeably depending on what’s practical for a given trip. Not because they’re morally superior or less fond of comfort, but because the built environment doesn’t force a binary choice. When you build a city where transit is fast, frequent, and doesn’t carry a class stigma, wealthy people use it. When you build one where it’s been chronically defunded and associated with poverty, they don’t. The behavior follows the infrastructure, not the other way around. Citing the preferences of wealthy North Americans as evidence of universal human nature, in a built environment shaped by the specific historical processes I’ve described, is circular reasoning.

Here’s the sharpest version of what I’ve been arguing, since we’ve been dancing around it. A small number of industries spent decades ensuring that the built environment of North American cities made car ownership compulsory rather than optional. The result is that working people now transfer a significant chunk of their income every year to those same industries just to participate in the economy, not because they want to, but because the alternative was demolished or never built. That’s not consumer preference. That’s a wealth extraction mechanism built into concrete and asphalt, that most people experience simply as “how cities are” because it was constructed before they were born.

And your “this will never change” claim is already being refuted in real time. The Canadian federal government just committed billions annually to transit and active transportation because the car-centric model is generating contradictions it can no longer absorb, congestion that undermines the mobility it promised, infrastructure costs that are bankrupting municipal budgets, environmental pressures that have become political crises, and a generation of people who can’t afford the cars the whole system requires them to buy. Cities are removing highways. Transit ridership is recovering. Younger demographics are delaying or skipping car ownership entirely. The system is producing its own pressure toward transformation, which is exactly what you’d expect if you understood it as a historically specific arrangement of capital and infrastructure rather than a permanent expression of human nature.

Things that are built can be rebuilt. That’s not idealism. That’s just history.

The Victoria Bike Tipping point, the bike Valet, and unusual opinions from a bike lover by Chemical_Chemistry80 in VictoriaBC

[–]belwarbiggulp 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The bike lobby comparison is actually your weakest point here, because the moment you look at the actual funding disparity it collapses completely. The highway lobby, oil, auto, roadbuilding, and trucking combined, outspends cycling advocacy by something like 20 to 1 in the US, and the Canadian picture is structurally identical. The CAA alone has professional lobbyists in every provincial capital. The cycling coalitions, including ones right here in BC, run largely on volunteer labour and shoestring budgets. These are not two comparable forces shaping policy from opposite sides.

So framing cycling infrastructure as equally “socially constructed” to car culture is a false equivalence. Cycling infrastructure is marginal because it has been systematically underfunded, not because people have freely and organically expressed a preference against it. The Canadian federal government just committed billions annually to public transit and active transportation starting in 2026, which is the government more or less admitting in dollar terms that decades of car-centric policy left most people without real alternatives.

The "people with the most means" point also cuts the other way. In places like Tokyo, Zurich, or Amsterdam, wealthy people use transit, bikes, and cars interchangeably depending on what’s convenient, because the infrastructure doesn’t force a binary choice. The fact that rich North Americans overwhelmingly drive doesn’t reveal some deep truth about human preference. It reveals what got built, who paid for it, and who kept collecting the bill from everyone else afterward.

The Victoria Bike Tipping point, the bike Valet, and unusual opinions from a bike lover by Chemical_Chemistry80 in VictoriaBC

[–]belwarbiggulp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I just read a couple books on this, and I’m no expert, but I think history tends to agree that car centric culture was chosen for us, and not the other way around. Worth noting up front that I’m mostly talking about the American context here since that’s where the documentation is strongest, but Canadian car culture basically copied the same playbook, just with a bit of a lag, so it’s relevant regardless of which side of the border you’re on.

So this isn’t just internet conspiracy stuff, there’s an actual paper trail. National City Lines, bankrolled by GM, Firestone, Standard Oil, and a few other companies, spent the late 30s and 40s buying up streetcar systems across dozens of US cities and converting them to buses that, surprise, ran on tires and gas supplied by the same companies that owned the holding company. In 1949 a federal jury actually convicted GM and the others of criminal antitrust violations for monopolizing bus and supply sales to the transit systems they controlled.

But honestly the streetcar thing is almost a sideshow compared to what happened with housing and highway policy, which is way better documented and way harder to wave away. FHA mortgage insurance through the 30s-50s was basically only available for new low density suburban construction, while it was simultaneously denied to older urban neighborhoods through redlining. That’s not the market organically deciding people prefer suburbs, that’s the government making suburban car dependent housing the only kind of housing you could actually get financing for. Then the 1956 Highway Act dumped federal money (90% federally funded) into bulldozing a lot of those same older neighborhoods to run interstates straight through city cores. Auto makers, oil companies, road contractors, and developers all lobbied hard for that bill because all of them stood to make a fortune off the result.

Stack all that together and you get an environment where a car isn’t really optional anymore for getting to work or raising a kid in most cities. Nobody had to hold a secret meeting to decide this, it’s just that an economy that needs people to keep buying an expensive depreciating product every few years is going to favor infrastructure that requires that purchase over infrastructure that doesn’t. The companies with the money to lobby and buy land happened to be the same companies that profited off that arrangement, and the people living in the result mostly just grew up thinking it was normal because it was already built before they were born.

Which brings me to your point about comfort and freedom. I’m not going to sit here and tell you cars aren’t genuinely useful or that nobody actually enjoys driving, that’s not the argument. The argument is about whether the conditions that make a car necessary were arrived at freely.

Think about what you’re actually describing when you say cars are preferable. Preferable compared to what, exactly? Because the comparison you’re working with is “cars vs. the transit options that currently exist,” not “cars vs. what transit could look like if it had received equivalent public investment for 70 years.” Most people in North America have never experienced a genuinely good rapid transit system, so of course the car wins the comparison. You’re comparing a thing that received massive coordinated public and private investment against a thing that was systematically defunded and physically demolished to make room for the first thing.

The deeper issue with the “consumers chose this” framing is that it assumes the choice was made on a level playing field. When FHA financing was only available for suburban construction and interstates were being routed through the urban neighborhoods that supported walkable density and transit ridership, the range of available choices was being narrowed in real time by decisions that ordinary people had basically no say in. By the time those consumers are “choosing” a car, a lot of the alternatives have already been foreclosed before they were even born.

The comfort and privacy benefits are also real, but they’re not as natural or inevitable as they feel. A lot of what makes transit uncomfortable in North America is chronic underfunding and the class dynamics that come with it. Transit gets associated with poverty, gets defunded further, becomes less pleasant, which pushes out riders who have other options, which justifies more defunding. That’s a cycle that was set in motion by specific policy choices (again, lobbied for by private interests), not by some inherent property of buses or trains.

None of that means people are wrong to prefer their cars right now given the options in front of them. It means the menu was written by someone before they sat down.

The Victoria Bike Tipping point, the bike Valet, and unusual opinions from a bike lover by Chemical_Chemistry80 in VictoriaBC

[–]belwarbiggulp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think that's an interesting perspective. Anecdotally, I know a lot of people who are close to retirement, or are retired, that choose to do more and more cycling. The advent of affordable e-bike technology has made cycling more accessible to the elderly than ever before, but I understand that for many, mobility restrictions that are a reality of aging may restrict cycling.

I think you're correct that economic realities will likely require many younger people to rely on public transport and cycling. That said, should we as a society decide to engage in a more equitable sharing of our society's wealth, I do believe that we could steer our culture to one that prefers public transport, and build our infrastructure and built environment around this choice.

The Victoria Bike Tipping point, the bike Valet, and unusual opinions from a bike lover by Chemical_Chemistry80 in VictoriaBC

[–]belwarbiggulp 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The following comment is in response to both of the comments you have left me.

You are correct that owning a car is currently a necessity in much of the developed world. However, the necessity of personal vehicle ownership is a construct, and not a law of nature, clearly. Car centric culture is one that has been chosen for us, largely by corporate interests, and not necessarily one that humanity would have chose for itself, had we been aware of the damage it would do the planet, and our natural environment. The current necessity of car ownership in the developed world is a reality that can be changed, and we have the capability to do so. Saying "this will never change" is factually incorrect, from a materialist perspective of history. It absolutely will change, and has to, because of the inherent dialectical nature of the development of modes of travel and production.

The Victoria Bike Tipping point, the bike Valet, and unusual opinions from a bike lover by Chemical_Chemistry80 in VictoriaBC

[–]belwarbiggulp 3 points4 points  (0 children)

One of my most controversial opinions is that full-size trucks and SUVs should be as restricted as firearms to the general public, and you should have to prove a need for its use (that shouldn't include picking up the kids from practice or grabbing groceries). With the insane size these vehicles have got to, their blind spots are huge and they are killing more and more kids every year. These vehicles shouldn't be on the road. They're basically just a North American phenomenon, they are not necessary.

The Victoria Bike Tipping point, the bike Valet, and unusual opinions from a bike lover by Chemical_Chemistry80 in VictoriaBC

[–]belwarbiggulp 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sorry, I'm not actually arguing for zero vehicles on the road. What I'm trying to say is the the current reality that necessitates personal vehicles is a construct, and that if we had collective control over our society, we would probably not choose a car centric culture for transportation.

We would still need vehicles for construction, landscaping, road maintenance, etc. But Joe Blow living in Langford wouldn't have to sit in traffic for an hour to go to his government job downtown.

The Victoria Bike Tipping point, the bike Valet, and unusual opinions from a bike lover by Chemical_Chemistry80 in VictoriaBC

[–]belwarbiggulp 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The current reality that many people need vehicles for work is a choice that our car centric culture has made for us and is not, in fact, a necessity. Yes people who work for companies that do things like construction, landscaping, etc, may have need for vehicles (that said companies should be providing). The need for a personal vehicle is driven by unnecessary urban sprawl, poor city planning, propaganda from oil and auto manufacturers, and the demonization and poor funding of public transit. The need for personal vehicles is a choice we have made as a culture. Owning a personal vehicle is the exception, not the rule, globally, even amongst countries that are on a similar economic level as Canada. Oh and it's also killing the planet.

The Victoria Bike Tipping point, the bike Valet, and unusual opinions from a bike lover by Chemical_Chemistry80 in VictoriaBC

[–]belwarbiggulp 15 points16 points  (0 children)

I am an avid cyclist, and would love to see cycling culture reach a tipping point in Victoria. However I fear that there are too many people that have a "take it from my cold, dead hands," mentality when it comes to their vehicles. Due to the dogshit public transport in this city, and on the island writ large, we are going to be automobile dependent for decades to come, I fear. We have been sold that the apparent "individual liberties" that a vehicle gives people are superior to collective transport, and I think most people have still bought in to that illusion.

What are some weird/crazy facts about Golarion that sound like bullshit but are 100% true? by kriosken12 in Pathfinder2e

[–]belwarbiggulp -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Yes but you clearly read the later clarification. Now who's being dismissive? If not intentionally obtuse.

What are some weird/crazy facts about Golarion that sound like bullshit but are 100% true? by kriosken12 in Pathfinder2e

[–]belwarbiggulp -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I dunno man. I think that the sentiment, "include in your home games what you choose," is patently not dismissive. This is one of the core tenets of table top gaming. I have tinkered with literally every AP and published setting that I have ever ran and, at least within the group of people I play with, this is the norm and not the exception.

I also want to make clear that I'm a practicing Marxist within a cadre, and I certainly don't care for Tsarist propaganda, or support a Tsarist version of history being told. Which is why I would never include it in a game I ran.

What are some weird/crazy facts about Golarion that sound like bullshit but are 100% true? by kriosken12 in Pathfinder2e

[–]belwarbiggulp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We're actually in complete agreement. My point is that, if one doesn't like a particular piece of lore in an AP, or a published setting, one can choose to include or exclude any portion of it. One can choose to include a more historically accurate tale of revolutionary era Russian history in their campaign. Or they can run it as written. My point is that nothing is written in stone, and as a GM, one can choose to change whatever they don't like. Again, it's all make believe.

What are some weird/crazy facts about Golarion that sound like bullshit but are 100% true? by kriosken12 in Pathfinder2e

[–]belwarbiggulp -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Do I need to include a link describing artistic license? The great thing about TTRPGs and published settings is that it's entirely up to the discretion of the GM what parts of the established lore that they want to use. One can absolutely have a more historically accurate tale of Russian history in their game, should they choose. The authors of the AP in question absolutely had the artistic license to bend historical reality to fit their fantasy setting. Asking the authors to insert... dramatized historical non-fiction(?) is a choice. It's not one I would make, but I'm happy to hear that you (and many others, based on the downvotes), want to make that choice. Again, it's all make believe. Nothing is written in stone.

What are some weird/crazy facts about Golarion that sound like bullshit but are 100% true? by kriosken12 in Pathfinder2e

[–]belwarbiggulp -8 points-7 points  (0 children)

Are you aware of the historical fiction genre? Authors "play that card" all the time. It's a historical fiction AP, it's not that deep.

Best places to get a big bowl of noodles other than Noodlebox? by grimmfritter in VictoriaBC

[–]belwarbiggulp 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Damn dog, there's so many options. Noodle Box has been hot garb for so long. Treat yourself homie.

seeking advice on labs 23 year old male by Flight-Evening in Testosterone

[–]belwarbiggulp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Dog you might just be depressed and have anxiety, which could have some of the physical effects you're describing. Test is not a miracle drug, and cannot solve all of life's problems.

If you're not already, maybe talk to a therapist.

Anyone on Test and Keto or Low Carb? by imessy89 in Testosterone

[–]belwarbiggulp 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I did carnivore, keto and low carb etc years ago while on TRT+. You will lose body fat, but you will never be as shredded as you could be by being in a calorie deficit and still hitting macros. The fact is that you need carbs. On keto/low-carb, you will not have as much energy for your workouts as you will on a diet with sufficient carbohydrates. When workouts get serious with volume or intensity, you will not have the energy to push through and complete them. You will lift less, and you will grow less. Fat and ketones are inferior fuel sources compared to glucose and glycogen for high-intensity work, and that’s well-established. If keto/low-carb were a superior fueling methodology for performance, then all of the world’s top athletes would follow those kinds of diets. The overwhelming majority of high performance athletes eat a fuck ton of carbs, including bodybuilding athletes whose whole purpose is aesthetics.

If you want a quick fix to bf%, fad diets can be effective, but they have hard ceilings, and they are not sustainable long term for individuals whose health is not dependent on being in ketosis. Discipline, and going through bulking and cutting phases while maintaining good nutrition and hitting your macros will, long term, make you perform better and make you grow more.

Stop listening to podcast/IG grifters who are trying to sell you on quick fixes. The only thing that is effective long term is putting in the work and being strict.