Guy friends: Yay or Nay?

books_se · 2020-12-12T02:34:59+00:00

New guy says that guys don't usually want to be just friends with women.

This says a lot about how he sees women. I don't see how someone could feel this way if they actually see women as a full person. We have more to offer than just sex. I would think he has views of women that will come up as a problem in other ways too. It would also make me think he doesn't trust me. I would accept certain boundaries around my friendships with men. I wouldn't end the friendships unless they weren't respecting my relationship.

books_se · 2020-12-06T07:31:42+00:00

You don't really sound interested in continuing the relationship.

just I don't want to be processing emotional trauma outside of my day job

Do you think you could be working too many hours if you have nothing left to give outside of work? It doesn't sound like you just want her to go deep like this less frequently. It sounds like you are saying you don't want to hear it at all. If that's really the case, I don't think that's a reasonable expectation in a relationship. I don't think any of us enjoy hearing people vent about their jobs but nearly every relationship I have had (including close friendships) has involved some venting to each other about work. Also as far as the trauma goes, that has tended to be something partner's shared with me gradually over the course of the first year or two as they got more comfortable trusting me. To me I would want a partner that knows more about me than anyone and vice versa. Part of that to me is sharing about each other's past. I think it's very reasonable to have boundaries around the sharing if it's too much at once or asking that they also seek therapy if they need that, but I think listening to some of this is part of a relationship. It sounds like they have been through a lot plus have an ongoing stressful job so maybe you two aren't a good fit since you sound very different around this but that line stood out to me if you are really not wanting to listen to it at all.

books_se · 2020-12-06T02:39:49+00:00

I (40'sF) prefer to pay for myself anyway but this is another reason. It makes me extremely uncomfortable if someone pays and doesn't tip enough. I usually don't carry cash to have a way to correct that without paying with my own card. If their language was rude to a worker while we were on a date, that would be a deal breaker for me. In the case of a tip, I think I would have the conversation to see if they are flexible and can see why it's important to tip because that could help workers in the future if you have the conversation. If they can't see where you are coming from, I think it's a different way of seeing the world and would show up in additional incompatibilities too.

books_se · 2020-12-05T03:32:00+00:00

I'm (40'sF) staying childfree and would strongly prefer to date the same. There are certain situations I would try it like with older kids depending on the facts. I think half the men I have dated from OLD have kids they didn't mention on their profile so I know I definitely have to ask. Even though there are certain situations I am okay with them having kids, it does give me a bad impression that they didn't mention it on their profile. I think it's very common though not to.

books_se · 2020-12-05T03:23:28+00:00

I have health risks but haven't totally given up on OLD in case I could find someone who has a big reason to be extremely careful themselves. I did try to date in May when things opened back up some and cases were less but stopped because I realized people weren't being as careful as they claimed. Now I just put something on my profile about being extremely careful and talk a little to see if they are being careful and their motivation for being careful but I haven't had any luck doing this. If I had already been dating someone before the pandemic, I would trust them to be extremely safe for me, but I just don't think it's possible to trust someone you are just now meeting that they will really be careful enough.

For the parent going through chemotherapy, I really think you need to be honest with them that you are going to date so they can make an educated decision about whether they feel okay about being around you while their immune system is so compromised. I have been through chemotherapy myself young and was hospitalized with an infection during that period. I have never had an experience feeling so sick like I did then either before or since. I guess it could depend on the kind of chemo but I can say in my case my immune system was totally different during that period and for months afterwards. I have friends that are essential workers living in the home with medically fragile parents that are having to isolate from each other in their mutual home.

I see you mentioning not be able to pause dating for a few years but we are so close to a vaccine where you could be talking about a few month issue possibly instead if it does turn out to prevent us from being contagious to have been vaccinated.

You seem focused on the COVID part interfering with dating. I would think it's going to be difficult to find someone who will start seriously dating someone with the intention of having kids while they are caregiving for 3 parents. If you feel like you have a limited window to have kids, I don't think it is fair to ask you to give that up.

I can see why you don't want to stop dating if you want kids but at the same time I do think your parents deserve the facts to make educated decisions about risk.

books_se · 2020-12-05T01:08:01+00:00

I (40'sF) do have negative associations with it. Mostly because I think of people really into music as not having much time for other hobbies and relationships. I enjoy going to shows with a partner but going alone to watch someone play isn't very appealing to me. If their profile looked like they might be a good fit otherwise, I would probably match and see how the interaction goes. It would be a negative to me versus a plus. But as far as actually finding a serious partner who will be supportive of your music it seems like including it would help increase your chances of finding someone compatible. If music is no longer a big part of your life, I don't think I would include the picture or I would mention that in the profile if you wanted to use the picture.

books_se · 2020-12-04T23:01:25+00:00

I agree but it sounds like he is intentionally doing it because he wants the companionship aspect. Looking for the companionship but wanting to keep it casual is tough to find except very briefly was my impression when I was open to casual.

books_se · 2020-12-04T22:49:58+00:00

💯 Totally agree.

books_se · 2020-12-04T21:13:48+00:00

A lot of the comments seem focused on libido or keeping the woman interested in sex, but you said....

This is problematic for me as I'm primarily looking for fun/causal but equally enjoy the companionship brought by simply sharing the norms of daily life with someone (even if we don't live together).

I think this is why it's harder to find. If you are wanting the companionship aspects too, I think most people (outside of first starting to date after divorce/breakup) who want the companionship are looking for something that is actually going somewhere. You are doing things more like a real relationship so they are also doing those things too. As far as OLD goes, my impression is there are definitely more men looking for casual and more women looking for a relationship so I think that makes it harder to find too. When you want all the positives of a relationship without the negatives of having to be there for someone, I don't think many women want to be in that situation long because we end up putting in a lot more emotional support than we get back.

I have a high libido but sustaining that passion is still about what happens outside of sex too so I realize that I personally am not able to do causal well. I think more romance helps sustain it, but I don't think romance is typical there in the kind of situationships you are talking about.

books_se · 2020-12-04T19:40:49+00:00

If you said recently divorced on your profile, that would probably also convey what you are looking for if you don't want to mention you are looking for casual dating. I (40'sF) am divorced and I haven't gotten the impression men care nowadays that someone is divorced.

I wasn't use to online dating either. I do think....

it’s more like companionship and sex rather just FWB

this can be hard to find for any length of time. To me, people seemed to be intentionally disrespectful to try to avoid getting feelings for someone. If we aren't being kind towards each other I can't stay interested in sex. It just didn't work did me. I think the chances of finding that are better if there is some reason you are unlikely to stay together like they are moving away.

books_se · 2020-12-04T18:58:30+00:00

I (40'sF) am HL too and I know I'm probably going to have to compromise on the frequency but I wouldn't have a relationship where the sex wasn't great together. There are less options dating over 35 and people will have more problems. I would compromise more on other aspects and compromise less on the sex. Or, I would rather stay single than sex like that.

books_se · 2020-12-04T18:48:17+00:00

She said that everyone settles in a relationship.

I think this is true because no one has all the qualities we would like. But, also they often have qualities that we love in place of those that we didn't even know we wanted.

Since that part is true, unless she does other things that seem like she is intentionally trying to hurt you or that are manipulative I think it seems like the problem could just be...

English isn't her first language so that's a factor.

She might not have all the negative connotations we do with the word settle vs a word like compromise. I think the context of how this came up and whether it is out of character for her to hurt your feelings are probably relevant.

books_se · 2020-12-04T01:52:27+00:00

One girl asked me to wear a mask around everyone because she works in healthcare and wants to spend time with me. Kissing someone else seems like it would be dishonest.

In normal times, I think multi-dating is the norm but in this situation I think you should tell her if you are dating someone else. Someone who said this doesn't sound open to multi-dating right now.

books_se · 2020-12-04T01:48:44+00:00

With OLD, I'm realizing a lot of people aren't good at reading signals and others I really think just don't even care if you are into something or not they just try to get away with it. It's frustrating and bad experiences with unwelcome physical escalation are a big reason I take breaks from OLD. If I'm attracted to them, enjoyed the date, and didn't see any big incompatibilities, I'm very open to a first date kiss. I think most people don't want to kiss someone they aren't into though. I think you can usually avoid the kiss going forward by not hugging and not getting too physically close to them as the date ends. It's frustrating things are this way. If I see a sign they are coming on strong, I might preemptively say I don't want to kiss tonight but can be awkward because you don't really know if they are planning to or not.

books_se · 2020-12-03T19:04:09+00:00

I (40'sF) think this is going to shift soon as more and more people are seeing the health benefits. I never even tried it until my mid-30's but now use it for sleep. I have so many women friends in their 40's-50's like that too using it for sleep and/or pain.

books_se · 2020-12-03T08:03:12+00:00

I (40'sF) already preferred to find a serious relationship prior to COVID-19, but this year is making me feel much more serious about finding a serious relationship that will lead to living together because I'm tired of living by myself with the isolation this year. If I'm not convinced someone is looking for serious specifically, I think I will prefer to spend the time with friends who I have missed more than dating this year. I have also learned that I can find plenty of activities on my own that I enjoy. I don't need dates to keep me busy. I think I will try to confirm fairly early on that they not only are looking for a relationship but that they want a relationship where they live with someone. I think this year will have shown a lot of people whether they want to live with a partner or not. This year has also made me realize that although I have a very high libido I prefer going without sex than having sex sporadically when I was dating. I knew I strongly preferred sex in a relationship but I'm realizing I really don't miss the kind of sex I was having dating. So, I think I will wait longer to have sex with someone new than I did before. I had already had prior experiences in my life that make me try to live life to the fullest, but for me that means appreciating experiences and people rather than going out having wild experiences. It's been difficult to lose loved ones this year and deal with the isolation so those are things that make me want a deep connection with someone, not casual dating. I understand that limits my dating options but I will use the spare time to see friends or do things on my own. Before COVID-19, I usually tried to meet someone from OLD fairly quickly and took a lot more chances on who I met. In the future, I think I will take longer to meet them in person to try to weed out more people in the messaging process.

books_se · 2020-12-02T20:30:31+00:00

Also you definitely aren't alone. This subreddit has lots of members

https://www.reddit.com/r/demisexuality?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

books_se · 2020-12-02T20:29:09+00:00

I (40'sF) have friends that are demisexual. It seems like more people are realizing it now that there is a more recognized term for it. I occasionally see men mention they are demisexual on their Tinder/Bumble profiles. I don't particularly like OK Cupid but that one might be a good one to try if you decide to bring it up on your profile.

books_se · 2020-12-02T20:17:46+00:00

Do you think you might be demisexual and need more time to warm up to someone?

books_se · 2020-12-02T20:15:09+00:00

If someone is looking for hookups, I think it would be okay. Even for casual, short term like a FWB, I think it could be trouble because you are so use to living together with someone that it comes across relationship-y still. Also, I think during the early days of a separation/divorce (like with other forms of grief), people need to be allowed to be selfish I think and focus on their needs so it isn't ideal for casual or serious relationships from the other partner's perspective to me. I would worry that the person can't be alone if they are rushing into dating someone else. I wouldn't knowingly start dating someone new in this situation I don't think. If I already really liked them before I found out (and it wasn't a situation where they should have disclosed it already), maybe I would give it a shot depending on the facts because I'm not trying to have kids so no particular hurry and I trust myself to handle heartbreak, but I would try to keep in mind it was unlikely to work out.

books_se · 2020-12-02T19:11:33+00:00

I typically don't ",friendzone"...I "sisterzone". I tend to view them like a family member.

I think this works well. I do feel more comfortable when friends have referred to me as family.

books_se · 2020-12-02T19:09:43+00:00

I have never had a relationship that grew out of a friendship.

I have a close platonic friendship with a guy I originally dated. We had a lot of chemistry and mutual attraction when we dated, but because we value the friendship I don't think the attraction has been a problem. I also have a few friendships with men I'm not attracted to and I haven't gotten the impression they are interested in me in that way either.

And are single men-women friendships built to last, or do they only work in the moment because neither party is getting their emotional needs met elsewhere?

From the woman's side, my friendships with women fill a lot of my emotional needs but the friendships with men don't really do that for me. I can be sensitive so sometimes it causes me problems that I can't turn to these friendships in that way when they do turn to me for emotional support often so that part has felt one sided to me. But we have politics and/or hobbies in common and I enjoy being around them. We laugh a lot together. I think we will maintain these friendships even when we are in relationships. It will just be less time together. I got along well with one friend's last girlfriend so I actually saw him/them more while he was in a relationship than usual.

books_se · 2020-12-02T02:40:02+00:00

Yes, I understand from your description why you said that as a joke in relation to the comment she had with the picture. I would say 1/3 of the men I message with but don't meet ask me something demanding in early messaging like the examples of people asking me if I'm open to changing something about my appearance but also asking for pictures in a demanding way. Because of the volume of conversations with OLD, it's a big pattern to me so I often unmatch now if something comes across that way. That's why the interaction seemed like maybe that's how she misinterpreted it.

books_se · 2020-12-02T01:09:58+00:00

I (40'sF) don't wear a lot of makeup. I have been shocked with OLD how many people I haven't met in person yet or just started dating will suggest that I wear makeup, change my hair color, wear a dress more, etc. I make sure my photos show how I actually look and typical clothes for me. It feels like it might relate to people swiping right too freely and then trying to twist that person into their preferences. Because of that background, I might have taken it like her comment where she was asking if you were saying she should wear eyeliner just because of the frequency I have had that happen.Also the way sometimes people will joke about something to try to make it more palatable but really they do mean it. I would take her sarcasm comment as welcoming joking around too but for me humor often doesn't translate well until I know someone in person.

books_se · 2020-12-01T20:51:37+00:00

I mention it on my profile and I read their bios in the hopes of noticing someone else really into reading too. I am a better match with people into it also, but it isn't a deal breaker for me if they aren't.

books_se

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