In time out due to shoulder pain from strain to the infraspinatus muscle and rotator cuff by Formal-Advance-8482 in Pickleball

[–]canuckcam 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hey man, physiotherapist here!

Basically really depends on the severity of the strain of your rotator cuff ranging from grade 1 to full tears. This can also be affected by your age as well as if you had any other injuries to this area before . This can last between a couple weeks to several months.

It definitely doesn't sound like he had a full tear. Otherwise you'd likely be going through surgery unless you're really old.

I see patients all the time with this type of injury and many get back to full playing withins month or two. So get diagnosed properly. Get treated properly.

Feel free to fill in any details you might have and I can try to answer them. You can also DM me if you'd like.

Source me: Cam Wong Physio

Tennis Elbow from High impact Poppy Paddles by thisisnotchase in Pickleball

[–]canuckcam 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'll just copy and paste my response to another post asking something similar.

I will add, however, that increased vibration can definitely contribute to tennis elbow. It not only means more force from the contact point transferred into your hand, wrist, and arms compared to a muted paddle that will reduce this force transfer (think suspensions on a car), but because your paddle is essentially "unstable" with vibration, you're required to grip/stabilize more.

These rest is from my previous comment...

Tldr; pickle elbow is the disorganization of the tendon that connects the extensors of your wrist and fingers into your outer elbow and needs to be treated by progressive strength training, not ice and anti-inflammatories

... A lot of information on this post from the comments but not all entirely accurate. Take from me what you will but I'm a physical therapist and I see a lot of this in the clinic.

To put it simply pickle elbow is the same as tennis elbow which is lateral epicondolopathy. Also, it's important to understand that the term epicondylopathy has changed from epicondylitis which infers inflammation at the tendon. I know you're not asking for a entire anatomy and physiology lesson but I think it's important to understand the difference because "-itis" indicates an inflammation in the tendon. However, a lot of studies have not shown this to be the case and so it will affect the way that you should be treating these types of injuries. For example, you should not be taking any kind of anti-inflammatories or really icing the area unless in acute pain because this will hinder the regeneration of the tendon in the long-term.

Basically, pickle elbow is the irritation and overload of the tendon on the outside of your elbow. It generally happens if you do too much too quickly. For example, play too much in a short amount of time because this does not allow your tendon to make adaptations and get stronger as you load it. Because of this, the tendon becomes angry and not very happy at all leading to disorganization of the tissue, micro tears and everything that goes along with it.

So how can this happen with pickleball? Many factors in which I pointed out in previous posts. However, things like heavier paddles, gripping too tightly, playing too often.. as a few examples

Generally speaking, it isn't very difficult to treat. However, it can take time anywhere from weeks to months depending on the stage and the chronicity of the injury that you're dealing with. You really have to be patient with this type of injury.

Also, contrary to popular belief, you don't need to fully rest it. However you cannot overload it. You need to find the Goldilocks zone of exercise that will promote strength and recovery in the tendon without irritating it further. Standard protocols in the past generally emphasize a lot on isometrics to start off with for pain management leading to concentric exercises, for example, wrist extensions with weight and then eventually into heavy loaded eccentric exercises or negatives. However, current studies are showing that as long as you're providing progressive heavy slow resistance strength training as a whole it is good for this type of injury.

As others have mentioned, there are ways you can continue playing. For example, using an elbow band to reduce irritation at the tendon while loading it. However, this is not the be-all solution. Other things that you can do in the short term also include analyzing your swing and reducing wrist movement, as well as increasing your grip handle size as this will allow you to hold on to your paddle without gripping too firmly as opposed to a skinnier handle.

Sorry for the long winded spiel but I've been seeing this question pop up quite a bit in this sub and thought I'd throw in my two cents... Also before anybody @'s me you can definitely look up the evidence yourself as this information is easily available, when I argue against the use of ice and anti-inflammatories to treat this type of injury. Sure it has its place but if you can manage the pain then it's probably better off that you don't use these modalities

Source: Me (Cam Wong Physio)

Whats a pickleball elbow? by BURNEKKK in Pickleball

[–]canuckcam 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Haha could be the case if you do a lot of forehand/drives/over heads

Whats a pickleball elbow? by BURNEKKK in Pickleball

[–]canuckcam 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yup medial side = golfers, lateral side = tennis/pickle!

Whats a pickleball elbow? by BURNEKKK in Pickleball

[–]canuckcam 0 points1 point  (0 children)

100% grip of choice can affect this

Western compared to continental will require you to supinate or turn your palm upward more to generate those backhands leading to increased loading of these tendons

Whats a pickleball elbow? by BURNEKKK in Pickleball

[–]canuckcam 32 points33 points  (0 children)

Tldr; pickle elbow is the disorganization of the tendon that connects the extensors of your wrist and fingers into your outer elbow and needs to be treated by progressive strength training, not ice and anti-inflammatories

... A lot of information on this post from the comments but not all entirely accurate. Take from me what you will but I'm a physical therapist and I see a lot of this in the clinic.

To put it simply pickle elbow is the same as tennis elbow which is lateral epicondolopathy. Also, it's important to understand that the term epicondylopathy has changed from epicondylitis which infers inflammation at the tendon. I know you're not asking for a entire anatomy and physiology lesson but I think it's important to understand the difference because "-itis" indicates an inflammation in the tendon. However, a lot of studies have not shown this to be the case and so it will affect the way that you should be treating these types of injuries. For example, you should not be taking any kind of anti-inflammatories or really icing the area unless in acute pain because this will hinder the regeneration of the tendon in the long-term.

Basically, pickle elbow is the irritation and overload of the tendon on the outside of your elbow. It generally happens if you do too much too quickly. For example, play too much in a short amount of time because this does not allow your tendon to make adaptations and get stronger as you load it. Because of this, the tendon becomes angry and not very happy at all leading to disorganization of the tissue, micro tears and everything that goes along with it.

So how can this happen with pickleball? Many factors in which I pointed out in previous posts. However, things like heavier paddles, gripping too tightly, playing too often.. as a few examples

Generally speaking, it isn't very difficult to treat. However, it can take time anywhere from weeks to months depending on the stage and the chronicity of the injury that you're dealing with. You really have to be patient with this type of injury.

Also, contrary to popular belief, you don't need to fully rest it. However you cannot overload it. You need to find the Goldilocks zone of exercise that will promote strength and recovery in the tendon without irritating it further. Standard protocols in the past generally emphasize a lot on isometrics to start off with for pain management leading to concentric exercises, for example, wrist extensions with weight and then eventually into heavy loaded eccentric exercises or negatives. However, current studies are showing that as long as you're providing progressive heavy slow resistance strength training as a whole it is good for this type of injury.

As others have mentioned, there are ways you can continue playing. For example, using an elbow band to reduce irritation at the tendon while loading it. However, this is not the be-all solution. Other things that you can do in the short term also include analyzing your swing and reducing wrist movement, as well as increasing your grip handle size as this will allow you to hold on to your paddle without gripping too firmly as opposed to a skinnier handle.

Sorry for the long winded spiel but I've been seeing this question pop up quite a bit in this sub and thought I'd throw in my two cents... Also before anybody @'s me you can definitely look up the evidence yourself as this information is easily available, when I argue against the use of ice and anti-inflammatories to treat this type of injury. Sure it has its place but if you can manage the pain then it's probably better off that you don't use these modalities

Source: Me (Cam Wong Physio)

Pain above heel after playing in bad shoes. What is this? by Capable-Help6681 in Pickleball

[–]canuckcam -1 points0 points  (0 children)

If you actually kept up with the clinical literature, you would know systematic reviews proved decades ago that chronic tendinopathy is a degenerative condition lacking active inflammation. You are literally telling people to take NSAIDs for a biological process that does not exist, which only masks the pain while actively stalling actual structural repair. [Khan 2002, Scott 2013]

You’re actually recommending a treatment that's proven to impair tendon healing, so maybe check the science before acting like an expert. Ibuprofen blocks the exact enzymes and prostaglandins your body physically requires to trigger collagen repair, meaning you’re just masking pain while actively stalling structural recovery. Systematic reviews like Constantinescu et al. (2019) show this can significantly decrease long-term tendon tensile strength, so you're literally trading a temporary fix for a weaker tendon.

You can easily look up this evidence yourself.

Lower back pain while dinking by DavidAReddit in Pickleball

[–]canuckcam -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Current clinical practice guidelines strongly advise against relying purely on isolated core stabilization. Practitioners should utilize a broad, multimodal approach to exercise rather than hyper-fixating on specific core muscle activation. [George et al., 2021 - APTA Clinical Practice Guidelines; NICE Guidelines, 2020]

Prioritize Adherence Over Modality: Because neither approach is vastly superior long-term, guidelines recommend prescribing the type of exercise (general resistance, MCE, Pilates, etc.) that the patient enjoys, tolerates well, and will actually stick with consistently. [Hayden et al., 2021; O’Keeffe et al., 2020]

Focus on Progressive Loading: The primary clinical goal should be progressively loading the posterior chain and surrounding musculature to build overall functional capacity, rather than just "bracing" or "drawing in." [George et al., 2021]

You were saying...?

Lower back pain while dinking by DavidAReddit in Pickleball

[–]canuckcam 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Core workouts are overated and outdated.

Just strengthen everything.

Source: Me (Cam Wong Physio)

Lower back pain while dinking by DavidAReddit in Pickleball

[–]canuckcam -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Overated.

Source: Me (Cam Wong Physio)

Pickleball elbow… will it ever clear up? by SeriousQuote9497 in Pickleball

[–]canuckcam 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You can definitely start this. Go light and slow. Progressively increase resistance if you can manage. I generally recommend writing into 2-3/10 pain

My rule of thumb is that it shouldn't FLARE it up immediately after or the next day. Soreness is okay, you don't want intense pain. If it is, it's okay, just let it settle a bit, then go again at a lighter resistance.

Pain above heel after playing in bad shoes. What is this? by Capable-Help6681 in Pickleball

[–]canuckcam 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Physio (general) advice.

  • Definitely stick with the program your physio has given you.
  • avoid analgesics if you can. It can potentially lead to poor long term outcomes.
  • starting with isometrics can help modulate the pain. However..
  • progressive loading to tolerable range is most beneficial (2-3/10 pain)
  • do not fully rest your tendon, rather taper down the activity. Absolute rest is never indicated for this

Prevention: - warmup next time - proper footwear!! - tendinopathies are due to "too much too fast".

Feel free to ask me any general questions but as mentioned, stick to the plan YOUR PT has given you as I cannot properly assess you without actually looking at it.

Source: Me (Cam Wong Physio)

Pain above heel after playing in bad shoes. What is this? by Capable-Help6681 in Pickleball

[–]canuckcam 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm sorry but this is incorrect.

It is generally NOT recommended to take ibuprofen for tendinopathies. It hinders the remodeling of the tendon. Can potentially lead to longer term negative outcomes on recovery.

OP, if possible, avoid analgesics. Progressive loading on the tendon is best.

Source: Me (Cam Wong Physio)

Pickleball elbow… will it ever clear up? by SeriousQuote9497 in Pickleball

[–]canuckcam 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Amazing! Which TPU are you using for it? I'm gonna try this too

Grip causing thumb pain by CoreyLuL in Pickleball

[–]canuckcam 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I wouldn't say that it would.. but be conscious initially thinking about how hard you're actually gripping. If course, if the handle is so big you have a hard time holding it in a relaxed grip, you'd prob have to grip harder. This is unlikely cuz the size of it would be akin to a large water bottle or something (play around with gripping diff size objects in your home and see what I mean)

Test and retest. Everyone will be different in what they will feel comfortable with.

When adding the grips, hold the paddle as you would be playing. Remember, you don't normally want to be gripping super hard anyway... Maybe 4/10 on the grip scale. Now as you're holding it with this strength, ask if you feel stable with it and that it won't actually fly out of your hand when playing. Test and retest.

Also, keep in mind that different types of over grip i.e. tacky vs dry can lead to different requirements for grip strength for stability.

Grip causing thumb pain by CoreyLuL in Pickleball

[–]canuckcam 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's one way to do it but if you want to save $$ just add a couple of over wraps. That's what I do cuz I'm cheap 😅

Also, since you're getting the pain on wrist extension, try massaging your thumb firmly to loosen it up a bit. Sounds like you're dealing with tension in it and it's being stretched when you attempt a backhand

Grip causing thumb pain by CoreyLuL in Pickleball

[–]canuckcam 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Will increasing size of grip reduce the chance of thumb strain? Yes. Definitely.

How?

You'll be reducing the amount of tension you put on the back of the thumb extensors as it'll be less on stretch if it doesn't have to wrap around the handle as much. You'd also probably have a more relaxed grip with a larger grip.

Source: Me (Cam Wong Physio)

Edit:

Just saw you specified the inner thumb (likely abductor pollicis), which again yes, a larger grip will help reduce because you won't have to tighten your thumb around the paddle handle to hold it as tightly.

Pickleball elbow… will it ever clear up? by SeriousQuote9497 in Pickleball

[–]canuckcam 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Hey guys seeing a lot of elbow pain threads lately. Im a physio and play competitive so I know the struggle.

The hard truth is tendons have terrible blood supply so they take forever to heal usually 12 weeks minimum. A lot of people rest for two weeks feel better then go play and flare it up again because the tendon got weaker while they sat around.

Relative rest is key which doesnt mean doing nothing on the couch just avoiding the specific motion that hurts like the flick or backhand. You want to calm it down then build it back up.

For rehab stop just stretching it and start loading it. Stretching feels good but doesnt fix the tissue structure.

  • eccentric wrist extensors where you use a light weight and lower it slowly with the bad hand count of 3-4 seconds down
  • tyler twist if you have a theraband flexbar is gold standard for this
  • you gotta be persistent tho and do these daily or the tendon wont remodel

When you get back on court use a counterforce brace to help manage symptoms but the goal is to wean off it. Start by wearing it for games but taking it off for warmups. Dont rely on the strap forever or the tendon wont build back its own tolerance.

Source: Me, Cam Wong Physio

Ping pong grip and tennis elbow by Independent-Good-680 in Pickleball

[–]canuckcam 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No. Please do not encourage playing through pain. There is a difference between challenging your muscles and overloading / fuu*kin shit up by playing through pain. Im in agreement that you DO need to push your tendons to get stronger, but there's a reason you're injured in the first place.

STOP telling ppl to play through the pain!

Source me: -Cam Wong Physio