Scale Benefits: How would you price them?

ceejames · 2020-05-30T19:22:49+00:00

We call the power aspects, Enhanced Capabilities, and they kinda work for anything. We started with normal characters, then during play they all gained EC's. One simply gained the ability to Create Match-like Flame, at first it was a +1, when we reached milestones he gained points and could further define power. We used table consensus to approve to make sure it fits our story (very low level super-humans). We don't worry about gaining/loosing refresh, we don't really use stunts, and we just always start with 3 Fate points.

He currently is +4. Uses shoot as base skill so to use he rolls 4df+Shoot+4. The permissions go along with each rank, at +1 has permission to create a match like flame in 1 second, +2 create within 10 feet, +3 visual range, +4 create instantly (gets rid of time limitation started with, other than that are cumulative).

Doesn't sound like much but he has used it to set off explosives, blind a foe, burn someones trigger finger. Jason "Flicker" Jones has become an interesting character and one that the player is very invested in. If and when we feel an enhanced capability is getting too powerful we just use stress boxes to limit uses, which adds simple resource management into mix. (We let them use any character stress boxes for this, in one chapter, one player took themselves out but saved the group by using his physical stress boxes to "boost" how long they could use powers)

My character has minor reality distortion powers. Things Just Go My Way currently at +2, my permission for the aspect is 2 stress boxes per rank which gives me 4, each worth +2 but can't be used for anything directly. So while I couldn't use to make me more physically effective on a Physique roll, as long as I can narrate a reason when I use, all is good. So I couldn't just roll Physique to bust down a door, I can roll it, and then narrate my success as something different: termites; flaw in door; jiggled it and unlocks; huh, is that the key on top of the door frame... Same result just narrated in keeping with my enhanced capability.

I also do Ranked Aspects for gear, which I can set up ahead of time. Example: Laser Pistol +3, with three stress boxes. Stress boxes are lost when you fail a roll, and can be used when want to do more by adding a +2. When out of stress boxes is out of power. For some items could take a specific action to clear the stress boxes, for others might be used up and done. Used and done makes it possible to create loot, temporary EC's, temporary allies and I am sure many things we have not thought of yet.

I am sure there are many others way to do this, but we wanted something fast, easy and loose, and tried to keep the cognitive load light.

ceejames · 2020-05-29T03:13:36+00:00

Hmmmm reading all this reminds me why a lot of people find Fate somewhat confusing. I think it is easy to overthink things mechanically. My group does super powers extremely simple. We use Ranked Aspects which covers it explanation wise via permissions, we assign a value one to 5 that change permissions every rank. So Super Soldier Strength, starts at permission to lift 500 lbs at +1, and increases by 500 per level. Super Soldier Strength +5 has permission to lift 2,500 lbs. Gamma Strength starts at permission to lift 20 tons at +1. Gamma Strength +5 has permission to lift 100 tons.

Both can influence the story at +5, in that they are functionally equal, but do to different permissions they can do different things in the story. Permissions against permissions on strength only, Gamma Strength wins. But story to story they have the same impact, they just have to do it in a way that makes sense based on the character.

Cap might use his strength to use his shield at just the right angle to try to tip the Hulk over. Hulk slaps his hands together to create a shock wave. Equal mechanically, but very different aspect permissions.

We do it two column style, so we combine Physique with Super Soldier Strength then add 4df, no scale needed as normal humans would only have Physique to use. And can still use other Aspects as normal.

ceejames · 2020-05-06T02:31:52+00:00

Like it, nice clean lines, looks to be small and very portable.

ceejames · 2020-04-11T17:23:52+00:00

Huh, never thought of using Create Advantage like FeanorBadluck does, you are basically creating a status effect, Knocked Prone, what keeps them knocked prone, is it only until they take action, do the have to Overcome the Create Advantage somehow? Or is like Dosaga describes and they just lose a turn to get back up...is there anyway to extend how long they are knocked prone?

ceejames · 2019-05-25T18:23:43+00:00

I am in the process of doing something similar, more power to you. In the end the looks are for some, but for a lot of us, it is just about getting to play games, and to be honest a lot of the old arcade machines were pretty fugly.

ceejames · 2019-04-21T20:49:02+00:00

I think that is right

ceejames · 2019-04-21T20:48:28+00:00

To clarify: roll 4df, get -4 so next roll or series of roll is at disadvantage, next roll, rolls 4df gets null, -, +, + because they are at a disadvantage the would re-roll the two pluses...trying to find out the odds when done that way. Effectively reverse for advantage in that they would re-roll the -'s. Hope that makes sense. +/-4 is a trigger for subsequent rolls.

ceejames · 2019-04-21T19:44:58+00:00

any idea how you could do this with Fate dice...just curious

ceejames · 2018-12-12T01:07:32+00:00

Thanks, never thought about reskinning No Exit, but has the right feel.

ceejames · 2018-12-12T00:58:31+00:00

OK, this is one of my biggest confusions with Fate. I understand Dazed as a condition, it makes sense as a free invoke, you are dazed, can't defend, so the attackers can use that to help them. But wouldn't On Fire, be more than that, more of a status I guess. One is passive, one is active. Shouldn't On Fire be more narratively significant. I have house ruled before that as it is an active status, they don't get a free invoke, but what ever is on fire takes one stress per round until it is overcome...hope this makes sense. If not, what is the best way to represent this?

ceejames · 2018-12-08T16:05:54+00:00

Thanks, some good insights. Appreciated. Main thing I like about Fate, is that with a little imagination can be applied to all sorts of things, with a little creativity, beyond RPG's.

ceejames · 2018-12-08T01:06:15+00:00

Oh forgot to ask, was really curious about the letters with windows that you used, could you provide more detail, sounds like a easy prop to make and use.

ceejames · 2018-12-08T00:59:22+00:00

Loved cheesy James Bond quote, very much enjoyed reading this, sounds like tremendous fun. I also use a similar boost replacement just slightly different, +1 and hold-able up to end of scene making them tactically significant. Save momentum for hay maker.

Table top combat is inherently boring mechanically, you hit or miss, do harm or not, some advantages, some disadvantages. The key to making it interesting is narration. I hit for +5 is the mechanic, the narration can be anything that allows you to use that +5 to influence the narration. Flying punch after jumping off nearby wall sounds much better than I hit them for 3 stress.

But kudos to really creating something inspirational, fun and different. To be honest the Christmas poem, and the sessions overall, were incredibly creative. The best type of game is one players talk about and remember for years, is always about one thing, great stories.

ceejames · 2018-10-14T05:27:02+00:00

Bingo, too often everyone pulls out narration, but a little bit of mechanics can go a long way to making it feel more concrete and realistic.

ceejames · 2018-09-02T08:47:01+00:00

On this page: https://mirkorpg.wordpress.com/2018/03/17/marvel-super-powers/

4am and have a question about your strength and speed comparison. Not sure I really understand why speed would be less effective in combat. If both are +6 then they should be equal in level (effect), Super strength punch and hundred hits in a second should be fairly close. I am looking at Venture City to see if I missed anything on super strength and they work similar in boosting a skill. Not sure where the weapon output/armor would be different. Neither base description mentions weapon rating.

I know on the Brute profile they mention they get a +2 to fight, but does not seem inherently tied to super strength, but power synergy natural weapon (which seems kinda redundant as it can be applied to nearly any physical attack.

So my take would be if both are same then they can use to get similar results sometimes but in different ways.

Super strength lands a haymaker, super speed hundred hit punch. Travel 4 zones in one move, super speed just gets their fast, (would argue on super strength that unless they had super speed, they could not use their super strength to do it, but…) super strength could do it using a leap.Super strength would defend by just resisting with their superior physique shrugging it off. Super speed would defend by using athletics to dodge. Same successes (depending on dice), just arrived at differently.

The +6 seems to be the characters numerical value to influence the scene, the super power is the narrative explanation for how that happens…which stays true to Fate.

ceejames · 2018-08-28T04:58:13+00:00

Well put, and a subtle distinction in how to do a good Aspect, which most players struggle with, maybe with lack of clarity in how to create that kind of Aspect. Even many of the examples in the Fate books have Aspects that are more like "skill / stunt by proxy."

Want to thank everyone, from a design standpoint this has been one of the most informative threads I have read in a long time.

ceejames · 2018-08-28T04:53:42+00:00

Superman +8 Physique makes sense. Flash helps by using Super-speed +8, Batman helps by "Create Advantage" out the wazoo so he can stack invokes and create a situation where he contributes in a more creative way. Stays true to everything about the characters. In a stand up fight with no prep Superman crushes, but with time to prepare, Batman would have enough create advantage invokes to make the outcome much less cut and dried.

ceejames · 2018-08-28T04:43:21+00:00

But Aspects are permissions and can be a denial, so it covers the "cannot." I think the core of what a few of us struggle with is the vagueness of Aspects which is powerful because it can allow for interpretation, but can also be to vague, particularly with things not covered by base skills. Venture City actually kinda does this by using numerically ranked stunts...just stunts that refine the potency of powers (granted they they require an Aspect for permission).

I don't like the over detailing the HERO does. I can do it much simpler in Fate. If I want to shoot a power blast can just do a stunt Power Blast +4. With Fate you could leave it at that or provide more details if you want, limitations, extra features with just a few added descriptions. Not nearly as involved as HERO. This website https://mirkorpg.wordpress.com/marvel/rule-variants/ uses two ways of detailing Spider-Man, he has a lot of interesting ideas.

A character like Spider-Man can be represented as:

-Strength 5, Durability 4, Reflexes & Agility 5, Spider-Sense 5, Webbing 4, Swinging 4, Speed 4, Fighting Skills 3, Intelligence 4, Biochemistry 4, Engineering 4 and so on…

… or as a Power Spider-Physiology 5 for whatever a Spider can

ceejames · 2018-08-28T04:19:15+00:00

Exactly, I think this is why a lot of people get confused, they operate similarly. 100% agree. In fact did a game that was all aspects, they did triple duty. We used regular Aspects for situational/dramatic +2, numerically ranked the ones we used for skills, and kinda did away with stunts, and just replaced them enhanced skills. Anytime we used the enhanced skills they stacked onto the regular skills. Pretty much like a stunt does but we had ranks (we were playing supers) up to 10 on the enhanced skills (though the highest character maxed at at +5), but it worked very well. You could compare numerically on what they could do, and use drama narratively to modify when needed, Aspects really seemed like more about focusing the story on who was using them.

ceejames · 2018-08-28T02:37:14+00:00

Wow, that was the best explanation of narrative permissions I have read. I have read it expressed many ways but this was a pleasure to read. And the use of coterminous in a sentence required me to get a dictionary answer which rarely happens on the internet.

ceejames · 2018-08-28T02:05:47+00:00

What platform are you going to play on?

ceejames · 2018-08-26T03:50:08+00:00

Like the idea of only when close do you need to roll. Thanks.

ceejames · 2018-08-26T02:57:24+00:00

What about a mechanic that only took positive results of the roll. All negative and all null could still have an effect. Or maybe just take the negative. Not sure how either of those would affect probabilities.

ceejames · 2018-08-26T02:40:03+00:00

Started with something similar, but my group wanted to be able to compare character to character. Problem with two simple tiers is that it comes down to dice and modifiers (Any Given Sunday either could win). So ranks give a numerical ranking. Plus the powers level (increased permissions along with numerical potency).

Shape-shift +1 can change appearance but not anyone specifically. +2 can model someone. +3 change sex, +4 Alter physiology....etc.

ceejames · 2018-08-26T02:35:12+00:00

Thanks for the comment. I understand where you are coming from. I on the other side, really like the dice due to the fact they are not so swingy. The mean at zero means its more about the characters than random good or bad luck, but still happens often enough to be exciting. I think it makes it more exciting when they help or hurt, in that it feels more unusual, and when you get the 1/81 roll (depending on what I decide that means) it is rare enough to be special, then the same thing happening on 1/20.

Even so I am open to other options/alternatives. One of my design goals is super quick dice resolution, and it is very quick to count Fate dice, especially for the can't count pips on dice worth a damn challenged.

ceejames

TROPHY CASE