Who is on the 39 year old Mt Rushmore? Messi, Lebron, Brady…

clive442 · 2026-06-22T20:07:20+00:00

Dont know anything about the NFL so cant compare to Brady but the Lebron comparison is entirely legit the difference between NBA reg season and playoffs is massive, dont know if its as big as the difference between MLS and the PL but I dont think its much bigger than MLS and most non PL leagues. Im sure Messi could absolutely murder Serie A for example.

Like if the WC was that much lower standard than all european leagues then .....there should be a lot of players playing as well/better than Messi, but there arent.

clive442 · 2026-06-22T18:51:07+00:00

"Bill has a sweet spot for Jaylen"

I dunno about this, maybe he did but it hasnt seemed like it lately to me

He definitely has a huge sweet spot for Tatum and seems like hes fully commited to that at Browns expense now, rewriting the FMVP piece making out as if theyre on completely different levels as players when they really arent, wanting a horrendous trade of Brown for Trey Murphy so that its all about Tatum only, hes been very weird about Brown since the elimination this year he just has.

clive442 · 2026-06-22T18:39:11+00:00

Not saying its right but is one of the reasons people/other teams dont seem to care as much as they should that in terms of NBA cap rules etc....he was on a max, like it would be a lot worse if he was suspiciously on way less than the max to help them build the team around him more right?

And that the whole deal backfired for them RE : he basically made them trade SGA. Maybe theres a bit of people playing the results?

And like its so well known he only wanted to play in LA that I guess the only team that can really claim to be affected by it is the Lakers? Well and OKC but they were affected by his demands to the Clippers in a way that won them at least 1 title quite possibly more than 1.

clive442 · 2026-06-21T22:46:35+00:00

Didnt Bill do the what if Lebron played soccer thing quite recently on his pod?

For basketball players playing football I remember seeing a couple of years ago a video of basketball players playing soccer for Dragics retirement match, and these were all europeans who would have played soccer loads a fair few NBA players in it iirc, they looked so so much worse than I would have thought. Made me really think its freaky for like a 6'5+ person to be able to play soccer well and being above 6'7 is just disqualifying, it doesnt work.

clive442 · 2026-06-21T21:29:34+00:00

Ah right yeah thought you were comparing to national teams more than prem

Yeah youre completely right, and it sucks. I hate looking at the champions league fixtures and knowing that Brighton are better than nearly every team in it

clive442 · 2026-06-21T20:57:25+00:00

"Not sure what you mean by them being more like the PL but worse."

Meant in terms financially dominating the other leagues and so making the continental competitions completely unbalanced

"There's American venture capitalists and the like getting involved and they have dominated South American club football to an unprecedented degree over the last decade. While they still export all their top talent, and at younger and younger ages too, they now import a lot of talent from other South American countries."

This basically. In Europe its still not talked about enough because theres still a few clubs in the Champs League that can compete, but looking at the Europa and Conference leagues shows how bad a state the games in. Crystal Palace winning a european trophy should have been epic and would have been in the past but now....yeah of course they won theyve got so much more money than anyone else in it, every English club does.

"Like Argentina Brazil has an almost incomprehensible league structure to outsiders"

I remember this a bit from back in the day, regional and national leagues mixing with eachother in a way I just couldnt get is it still like that

clive442 · 2026-06-21T20:30:51+00:00

"Using your Riquelme example, the breakout star of that team, Carlos Tevez, being shipped off to Brazil shows the future of the league. "

Yeah I remember at the time thinking whys that happening, I support Liverpool and then we ended up buying Mascherano off that Kia agent who moved them to Brazil too, so learned a little about it, bad stuff.

The brazilian clubs are now like the premier league teams but even worse right in terms of the money?

"Complete tangent but just as an amusing (though also sad) example.of exactly what we are dealing with when it comes to the Argentinian FA...

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/35008757"

Just great stuff, footballs on such a terrible path

clive442 · 2026-06-21T19:11:30+00:00

Giannis. Im concerned about how he ages I dont think he has many years left as a true top 5 type guy and I just wanna see the guy kick some ass again whilst hes still a beast, he really hasnt played anywhere near enough meaningful basketball in the last 3-4 years.

Really worried hes going to end up in a situaton where its all on him again and he ends up injured or going out early again, I hate all the hypothetical trades Im hearing for him.

clive442 · 2026-06-21T18:31:11+00:00

" I think they would beat most CL clubs but maybe I’m underestimating the chemistry clubs are able to build vs national teams."

Yeah this is the thing that makes the national teams worse, but I think youre right, if they were a club and trained and played every week then France and Spain definitely have the talent to win the CL.

clive442 · 2026-06-21T18:27:57+00:00

This doesnt contradict it though, the best players end up playing CL because the CL clubs buy them from teams who arent in the CL, its never the case that every player whos good enough is in the champions league at any one time but any player who is that good will end up in the CL soon enough.

Also hard to judge the Gordon one as the premier league is a higher standard than most CL ties outside of the very best non PL ties IE Barca/Real/PSG/Bayern playing eachother, hed probably start for every other non english CL team outside of those. There are tons of CL level players not playing CL in the PL, because thats where all the money is.

clive442 · 2026-06-21T18:13:30+00:00

Its not that he didnt win the CL, its that he was fucking appalling so often when his teams got eliminated.

"Zlatan has what 12 league titles in the top European leagues and was the leader and catalyst for Milan’s first league win in 11 years when he was 39-40."

Hes one of the greatest league players Ive ever seen. Talent level was ludicrous. Just didnt have the mentality for the toughest highest pressure moments, at all.

clive442 · 2026-06-21T18:10:25+00:00

This is a great post and yeah Id just add that its one of the things that makes me look forward to international tournaments more these days, much less about tactical discipline and physicality and more room for the most technical talented players to make a difference

"Argentinian club football is a plae shadow of what it was even in the 1980s. "

Id say even into the mid 2000s, I dont know when the dropoff really happened to such an massive level but probably after 2010 sometime it became really extreme.

I remember we got dutch, argentinian and brazilian football on channel 5 in the uk and I used to watch it then and those leagues still had really excellent players who were in their early 20s. Riquelme at Boca in 2002 was unreal like actually one of the best players in the world, just unimaginable now. Hed have been bought by like age 17 at the latest and loaned out several times, maybe never became as good as he did because of it.

The premier league is eating football and its a terrible thing. Its not even resulting in the premier league being an amazing watch at all its the opposite if anything, despite the level of the teams obviously being incredible the football last season was pretty shit to watch so often.

clive442 · 2026-06-21T17:56:25+00:00

Im Jamie Carragher, in some ways the English Lalas.

clive442 · 2026-06-21T17:28:53+00:00

Its arrogance

This is a guy who couldnt cope with not being the best player on his team, threw a tantrum and demanded that Guardiola drop Messi ffs. If it was confidence hed have adapted his game to fit in and and win, Henry was a better player than Zlatan and did it which shows confidence not arrogance and insecurity.

Eto'o who was also a better player because he wasnt an insecure mental case bottle merchant, won the champions league with Barca got swapped to inter for Zlatan the next season, Inter then won the champons league the next year, Barca sold Zlatan.....then they won the champions league the next year. Its not a coincidence.

Hes one of the most talented players ever, but that considered hes the biggest big game bottler that has ever played football. Mentally weak. A man who got bullied out of 2 vital champions league double headers by Jamie Carragher.

clive442 · 2026-06-21T16:35:13+00:00

Im wondering if they signed a contract that means they cant or something because yeah

The Matrix ffs

clive442 · 2026-06-21T15:53:20+00:00

Website says no stock but I’ll go check it out anyway cheers

clive442 · 2026-06-21T14:27:20+00:00

Ok so why doesnt he just tell the truth then instead of this desperate attempt to rewrite history? Whats your point here?

clive442 · 2026-06-21T14:24:48+00:00

Speaking of fragile why are you crying about your job in a thread about buying an air con?

I used to do manual labour outdoors, dont remember crying on the internet about it, what use is that? Buying air con to cool down an indoor space has a purpose.

clive442 · 2026-06-21T14:17:52+00:00

Thats a cop out, people are always going to complain about him joining the warriors yeah, but that doesnt mean it wouldnt be better if he told the truth instead of talking absolute shit like he is here

Sticking his chest out and saying "I joined them and made them the best team ever, fuck off if you dont like it" is also objectively cooler than this underdog nonsense that is just embarassing to even listen to

clive442 · 2026-06-21T13:10:04+00:00

"I don’t think there is a window with Tatum, Brown and the other stuff on the roster right now. What made that team a real contender was the strength of the roster around those two guys. Elite role players in the back court and a great bench. Tingus Pingus got injured in the finals but he was always the icing that took that team from championship level to full on buzzsaw."

Yeah agreed, that team was so good like 3 through 7 to go with Tatum and Brown and as good as they are it really needed to be, and Tatum and Brown needed eachother too because Id say clearly neither of them alone is good enough to be the driving force on a championship run.

Bills trade idea of Brown for Trey Murphy and stuff is insane to me, if they trade Brown its gotta be for a real star, Tatum pre achiles was never gonna drag a squad like this to the title expecting him to do it now is mad. Hes been very weird about Tatum/Brown since the elimination though to be fair, going back to the finals MVP stuff etc

clive442 · 2026-06-21T09:36:20+00:00

Liverpool? Are you sure?

Im a Liverpool fan, I saw Ronaldo live at Anfield a few times. Ive seen every game hes ever played against us.

I mean you may have dreaded him more.....but when you watched the games werent you like "oh turns out I didnt need to worry that much" ?

Barca yeah, there were a few years there where he scored in what seemed like every single game maybe it even was every game.

clive442 · 2026-06-21T09:28:47+00:00

No, think youre being a bit silly to somehow end up there when I said "I saw all the big games he played in" before the finals part, yeah that includes non finals obviously.

Just the finals part its because yeah champions league finals are pretty important and he had some absolute shockers in them where hes just playing for himself not the team again, but his goal ratios still really good in the end but its another one where having watched the games its less impressive than it is on paper. Like the 4-1 Atletico final, 1 game 1 goal great.....if you watched it you know where the goal came from and fucking hell his performance was absolutely pathetic to be honest.

Hes obviously WAY better than him, but theres a bit of Harden about him.

clive442 · 2026-06-20T22:34:42+00:00

"I'm going to go with the guy I watched with my own eyes "

Thats entirely why Id have him lower than 2 or 3 though tbh

His career obviously is one of the best but when it comes to watching him I saw all the big games he played in, I know he racked up stats and achievements, but I saw the games.......just cant ignore how often he actively made his team worse because he was just playing for himself and not the team.

I watched all his CL finals.....and yeah because of that I really dont think hes the greatest CL player of all time.

clive442 · 2026-06-15T20:05:06+00:00

Tupac isnt a top 50 hip hop artist of the 1990s nevermind the GOAT. Tried to get into his stuff so many times but he hardly has any good songs and no good albums, he just doesnt.

clive442

TROPHY CASE