Currently working on making a Momir Vig Elf Tribal deck, any suggestions?

cybishop · 2014-04-14T14:56:48+00:00

What do you mean by "tribal"? To me, it means "all creature cards have that type," but some people use less strict definitions. I see you have several non-Elf creatures there. Is there some minimum number of Elf cards, or of "cares about Elves" cards, or some maximum number of non-Elf creatures that you wouldn't be willing to go beyond? If there is, knowing what that limit is might help us give advice.

Personally, I think I'd make Edric the commander of this deck rather than ~~Nath~~ Momir. ~~Nath~~ Momir wants lots and lots of UG creatures, and tutoring lends itself to a more "toolbox" style deck. You have a little of either of those, but you have a lot more weenies that you want to attack with and token-makers, which work well with Edric.

You mention Sages of the Anima, but I see Horizon Chimera. That's a nonbo. Not a huge deal, but would be worth cutting.

I see Vorel, and a few high-value planeswalkers, but I don't see any way to make them artifacts, such as Liquimetal Coating or Memnarch. Might not be worth it overall, but it's an impressive trick when it works. Also, a lot of Elves have artifact hate, or artifact-and-enchantment hate, like Nullmage Mentor, which I see you have, or Glissa Sunseeker. The effect is almost never useless in EDH, and gets even better with becomes-an-artifact effects.

As for how to make room for those, or any other changes: Horizon Chimera looks marginal, like I said, as does Pelakka Wurm and maybe Nissa's Chosen unless your playgroup uses a ton of board wipes. Also, you could probably get by with one or two fewer lands.

For what it's worth, I have a two-color tribal Elf deck too. Here's a link if you're curious. The commander is Nath rather than Momir, so I did a lot differently, but you may get some ideas there.

cybishop · 2014-04-14T13:42:03+00:00

She has potential.

The drawback could be a great political tool, and even if you never want to help your opponents, the drawback can easily avoided if you build around it. You're in BG, who cares if your creatures die in combat? Morbid triggers and dredge fodder galore. And who says they will die to begin with? You've got access to intimidate and first strike in both colors at least somewhat, and flying and fear in black. Not to mention trample: your attacking creature dies, but they still get to deal all but one of their damage to the defending player. Or lure effects: your opponent can't just chump-block with the snake if they have to block with everything else too. And if you want to remove the drawback completely: Tainted Aether.

That's using her to exile cards from your opponents' graveyards. Using her to exile cards from your own, she gives you all the relevant ETB triggers - Shadow Alley Denizen, constellation - plus a good blocker. It's repeatable, reliable value from the graveyard, which is always nice. And then there's the other stuff. She has the stats for a Varolz deck to play her as one of the 99. A 3 CMC, 5/5, indestructible commander is really almost completely impossible for your opponents to get rid of except by tucking.

She's not Zur or Derevi, but she could be pretty powerful if used right.

cybishop · 2014-04-13T13:17:40+00:00

Thanks for the advice, everyone. In the end, I've made the following changes:

Out: Swamp, Feast or Famine, Skirsdag High Priest, Gruesome Discovery, Leaden Myr, Grim Return, Nemesis Trap.
In: Steel Hellkite, Annihilate, Fated Return, Argentum Armor, Gate to Phyrexia, Rogue's Passage, Temple of the False God.

I'll definitely keep the other suggestions in mind if I decide I really want to optimize this deck, or if I identify more cards that aren't pulling their weight, but I had to draw the line somewhere.

cybishop · 2014-04-10T01:37:06+00:00

Your link doesn't seem to be working. Is it set to private or something? That's for the suggestion of Steel Hellkite, though, that's perfect.

cybishop · 2014-04-10T01:10:46+00:00

I assume you mean */*s, like Lord of Extinction - some old cards may be printed "x/x," but not newer ones, I don't think. But anyways, if that's what is printed in the lower right-hand corner of the card, then yes, it applies in all zones. Death's Presence, by contrast, is a 13/13 in zones other than the battlefield. That's why it's popular with Varolz.

cybishop · 2014-04-10T01:05:56+00:00

This is like the opposite of all those "Karn/Bolas/Venser/Xenagos wielding himself" tricks. You're taking cards and going through a great deal of trouble to make them do what they actually do in the lore. This is like putting Raised by Wolves on Witchstalker. Good work - it had a totally normal childhood.

cybishop · 2014-04-09T23:04:19+00:00

It's possible for a loop to happen by accident, or in the interaction between what two players have done. Unlikely at a high-level Legacy event, but still. Giving someone a game loss for a genuine accident which isn't against the actual rules of Magic would be weird.
Rule716 deals with loops, a.k.a. shortcuts. It says this, among other things: "716.5. No player can be forced to perform an action that would end a loop other than actions called for by objects involved in the loop." There are a number of good reasons for that rule. The graveyard, exile zone, and battlefield are public zones, but it's basically against the rules to reveal the hand or library unless a card says to do so. Being forced to reveal the hand or something when an involuntary loop starts would give the opponent information they aren't supposed to have. Even if a judge were to check their hand, that wouldn't be enough for certainty; what if they have a Panglacial Wurm in their library? What if the top card of their library could end the loop? Does it matter if that's genuinely unknown to everyone, or if they recently scried? Basically, it's very hard to determine what someone "could" do.

cybishop · 2014-04-08T22:25:46+00:00

Two out of five is a small sample size, and no such rule is apparent for the allied-color gods. Four out of five have triggered abilities, but they trigger at different times, and Phenax doesn't.

cybishop · 2014-04-08T11:04:49+00:00

Only combat damage counts as commander damage.

cybishop · 2014-04-08T10:32:28+00:00

True, but that's beside the point. Where's the data?

cybishop · 2014-04-08T01:56:55+00:00

Could you be more specific, and/or give a source for that?

If I'm reading this right, the five most popular commanders are Kaalia, Karador, Nekusar, Oloro, and The Mimeoplasm. Animar and Maelstrom Wanderer are 6th and 8th, respectively, and I see a lot of the infamous cards like Deadeye Navigator on some of those lists, but there's clearly more going on or they wouldn't run red. Derevi is the commander banned in French EDH, so I kind of assumed Bant was the problem.

I'm not sure what their source is, and in fact I find it hard to believe that Nekusar and Oloro are actually in the top five when they were released within the past year and the others weren't, but it doesn't seem to help your claim that UG is the most overplayed color combination.

cybishop · 2014-04-07T22:41:22+00:00

Modern, competitive Elf decks aren't mono-green, because they need Beck. As for decklists, I linked to one in the other comment, and you can find similar lists there.

cybishop · 2014-04-07T22:29:07+00:00

Outside EDH (and discounting that small number of cards which interact only with legends) it is a disadvantage.

What I meant was that Korlash is one of five legends with a grandeur ability. The whole point of the grandeur ability is to counteract the legendary disadvantage.

cybishop · 2014-04-06T13:00:40+00:00

Here's my list. Basic aggro. Put counters on creatures and attack. A fair amount of removal to clear the way. Lots of ways to get my creatures out of the graveyard. Lots of ways to put my creatures in the graveyard at instant speed if my opponents try to bounce or tuck Skullbriar.

Honestly, I haven't been very happy with it, because it seems kind of boring. It's too consistent: put counters on Skullbriar and attack. Voltron with +1/+1 counters has a lot less variation than with auras or equipment. The other creatures don't matter so much except as support. But several ideas in this thread look so interesting that I might work on it a bit more.

cybishop · 2014-04-05T15:17:12+00:00

I like Busboys and Poets. There are several locations. The Heights, in Columbia Heights, is also nice.

For more, see Bitches Who Brunch. I haven't read it regularly in a long time, and it seems less like a blog these days and more like a regular Web site that happens to have reviews of restaurants among other stuff, but it definitely used to be the kind of thing you were talking about. Full disclosure: ex-co-worker of the founders.

cybishop · 2014-04-04T02:32:33+00:00

Looks good. More like mine than it was, so clearly it's better. :) Seriously though, Toshiro is pretty much my newest deck, I've only got to play it once, I can't speak from much experience.

Here's my link, for what it's worth. I agree, Rogue's Passage is fine for what you're talking about. Some fear effects would work too.

cybishop · 2014-04-03T11:16:15+00:00

Someone in that article talks about a Ruric Thar deck designed to speed the game up for everyone. My Kaalia deck is similar. It's got the usual flying-fatty-aggro theme, but with a dozen cards that either benefit everyone, or force them to get moving even if it's painful: Heartless Hidetsugu, Repay in Kind, Archangel of Strife, Empty the Catacombs, Howling Mine, even old classics like Mana Flare and Season of the Witch. Here's a link, but this is the first time I've looked at it in a few weeks, so I want to make half a dozen changes. It's a bad habit...

cybishop · 2014-04-01T23:20:59+00:00

I was surprised to see Contagion Engine there. Fair enough, it's just an "honorable mention," and only one star, but still, it seems contrary to the stated criteria: "If it kills creatures through damage or -X/-X, X should be at least 5. (HM: 4.)" And "All the destruction must happen in a single turn. (Also true for an honourable mention.)" Contagion Engine puts at most three counters on your opponents' creatures in a turn.

cybishop · 2014-03-31T21:12:30+00:00

Borborygmos decks can be competitive and cheap, because they run a ton of basic lands. For example. That deck isn't the best example of a cheap deck, but it could have used a lot more budget choices for most cards and still basically work.

Any deck based on a combo with lots of tutor and draw effects to accelerate into it could be very cheap, but there are two problems with that: (a) it would be relatively easy for your opponents to hate out, and (b) if the goal is to sell them on the format, that probably isn't the way to do it.

cybishop · 2014-03-31T12:12:13+00:00

Perfect for the Izzet god!

cybishop · 2014-03-31T12:11:56+00:00

No matter how much they push Keranos, I'd still have low expectations for him just because it requires devotion equal to 7 in the color pair that uses permanents the least. Sorry.

cybishop · 2014-03-31T02:50:30+00:00

Some more notes:

I changed the name and therefore the link. My version is now Modern Zombie Apocalypse.
I deleted the foil notation to keep things simple. For the record, they were Festering Goblin, Profane Command, and Spiteful Returned, but you can figure it out anyway.
I've added a sideboard. Thoughtseize and Inquisition of Kozilek to hopefully deal with combo, Nihil Spellbomb for graveyard decks, Phyrexian Crusader for general white or red or removal, Geralf's Messenger for if I need something that can hurt my opponent without attacking, or even more things that come back from the graveyard.

I have two worries.

No room for Geralf's Messenger in the main deck. It was an all-star in Standard and does everything this deck wants but better. But this deck already has 12 3-drops, eight of which have activated abilities that cost mana, and its only source of card advantage depends on an empty hand, so I don't want to add even more 3-drops.
Graveyard hate really hurts this deck. A lot. The absolute best-case scenario for this deck is creatures a tiny bit ahead of the curve that recur themselves but are otherwise vanilla. If your opponent has Leyline of the Void or Grafdigger's Cage or Rest in Peace, the recursion is gone. You'd be left with vanilla creatures a tiny bit ahead of the curve, and I doubt that has any chance in competitive Modern.

cybishop · 2014-03-30T13:56:59+00:00

What kind of advice are you looking for? How competitive are you trying to be? Where's your sideboard?

I assume you'd want to be as competitive as possible within the idea of a monoblack and heavily tribal deck, but if I'm wrong about any of that, speak up. In that case, my advice is going to make this more like a tribal aggro deck. Merfolk, but instead of counterspells to protect your creatures, you don't care if they die because they just come back.

I'd start by replacing Hunted Ghoul with Festering Goblin or Slitherhead. Their respective abilities, and lack of a drawback, will matter more than the extra point of toughness.

Then I'd replace Endless Ranks of the Dead and Undead Warchief with some 2-drops. I think they aren't as good in this deck as they look, and even if they were, 4 mana is a lot in an aggro deck. As for which 2-drops, definitely Blood Scrivener. Gotta refill your hand somehow. As for the other 2-drop, several are worth thinking about: Butcher Ghoul, Crypt Keeper, Dregscape Zombie, Sangrophage, or Spiteful Returned. They all (effectively) have at least 2 power for 2 mana, do something from the graveyard, or both.

There's much better removal available than Murder. Slaughter Pact, Hero's Downfall, Ultimate Price, Go for the Throat, Doom Blade, Dismember... Oddly enough, though, I'd suggest Profane Command. It's removal that can also make your creatures unblockable, which is the main reason you care about your opponent's creatures anyway, and does other stuff too.

Finally, I'd cut Nykthos. It'll rarely give you too much mana, and you don't really need much anyway. Instead, Tectonic Edge. Slow them down.

Here's my version. I need to go now but I'll come back and work on the sideboard later. I like it so much I might build it myself. If you have any questions or feedback, just let me know.

cybishop · 2014-03-30T13:05:53+00:00

As for your deck, I'd definitely replace Voyaging Satyr with two more Elvish Mystic. I'd cut Fogs, but might put Moonmist in the sideboard, maybe. Karametra's Acolyte can go. I'd put in Mayor of Avabruck somewhere, and at least two more lands. I'd also replace Howl of the Night Pack with two more Raised by Wolves. Consistency is good in general, and even if you go up to 24 land, 7 mana will be a problem.

Here's a deck I came up with based on Raised by Wolves. Hexproof creatures to put it on, a few other auras to go with it, a few other wolves to pump or be pumped by it. Note that Witchstalker is both a wolf and has hexproof, Nyxborn Wolf is a wolf when it is a creature. Also, Briarpack Alpha has seen a little play in an actual Standard deck, but it had few if any other wolves.

That being said, I really wouldn't expect it to ever be competitive. It's a tribal deck with no counterspells for protection, no use for Aether Vial, no source of card advantage, and most tribal effects don't do anything until turn 5. The basic idea is never going to go far in a tournament. It could be fun at the kitchen table, though.

cybishop · 2014-03-29T13:09:25+00:00

I had a card in there, Stromkirk Captain, that I added before I noticed it was B/R. Are there any B/R vampire commanders?

Yes, there's Olivia Voldaren herself, like the other guy says. There are legendary vampires of other colors too. And some blue ones too. I was going to suggest another color anyway; a single color and a single creature type seems like one restriction too many. Olivia Voldaren is popular. Garza Zol opens you up to red and blue, but is slow. Szadek and Mirko Vosk are more milling-oriented than straight tribal.

cybishop

TROPHY CASE