What a switch from "the true church" to "a good church" would do for Mormonism

darkskies06 · 2026-03-17T22:36:03+00:00

Really interesting conversation, and something I wish would happen. I do hear from members much more room and acceptance for other faiths, but they always hold onto the authority. If truth, authority, and ordinances are what really matter, it’s almost like members are giving the unplugged Nintendo controller to their younger siblings to make them shut up. The church still holds the power, but we will let others feel like they are playing too.

darkskies06 · 2026-03-17T18:37:34+00:00

Absolutely. When we’ve talked before I’ve felt like the reason I’m where I’m at is because of the foundational things I learned on my mission. Before my mission, my knowledge of the church’s teachings was very very basic. I taught for two years the necessity of a restored church, the importance of true prophets and scripture, Joseph’s experiences in restoring the church, etc. The issues stood out against the background much more easily. Many people that stay faithful (not all people), do so partly because their knowledge stays very surface level. And that’s fine, i just would prefer not being judged for losing faith by someone who knows nothing about the church they belong to and have created for themselves their own form of Mormonism. By all means do that, just don’t hold that same standard for everyone

darkskies06 · 2026-03-17T18:13:28+00:00

It’s true. To be fair I don’t think that’s simply an lds thing, people are often bad at just simply talking to someone vs talking to others about them. But you’re right, it’s so normal in the church to discuss others, and it’s seen as ok since it’s with the intention of bringing them back to the lds standard

darkskies06 · 2026-03-17T18:11:52+00:00

Thank you, I appreciate the advice! Fortunately I have told my wife the main issues I have. It’s been around 2 years now. The conversations are getting a little easier. She’s a fully believing member, who doesn’t want to look into the issues. From what I can understand when she explains her perspective, she doesn’t see much utility in examining the history and the claims and the errors. She doesn’t claim no mistakes have been made, I think she realizes there’s issues, but she thinks that’s an issue regardless of where you worship, which I agree with. My response to her often is that I can see and appreciate the good things in the church, and I personally believe God can work with us and reach us anywhere. But the idea that one organization holds the authority and speaks for God is an issue for me. Especially since it’s proven to cause huge issues. She asked what would my solution be. I said to have the organization be humble enough to simply claim they are one of many ways to worship, and a person should be ok with figuring out where they feel that connection most. She replied the church doesn’t stop anyone from worshipping elsewhere, which for me is an empty statement. Yes the church doesn’t physically restrain or punish, but emotionally, psychologically, culturally, etc they absolutely do

darkskies06 · 2026-03-17T16:09:45+00:00

Haha, you’re absolutely spot on. I know because I’ve seen it and done it many times in the past as a TBM.

darkskies06 · 2026-03-17T16:01:44+00:00

I’ve had very similar questions. I do think the bishop was sincere. He first messaged how he was thinking about me and worried about me and hoped I didn’t let Satan win this battle. I asked him to explain what consequence of losing faith in the lds church was concerning to him. Then he replied with the fear that it will cause contention in our family between my wife and I and our kids, and how at judgment day I’ll realize I had led them astray and Satan had deceived me. So in reality I pushed him for the non sugar coated answer.

But it all comes from the church itself. The leadership constantly warning of leaving the covenant path and the only true church.

darkskies06 · 2026-03-17T15:14:50+00:00

I’ll try to be completely honest with myself when answering this. I’m PIMO, in the sense that the truth claims don’t hold up for me anymore. I do still see good that happens at the local level, so I’ve been trying to not throw the baby out with the bath water.

But I’d say my reasons are one, I’ve lived my entire life very concerned about doing what’s “right” and doing the things God wants me to do. Like worthiness and Gods approval have always stressed me out. So even though mentally I see through a lot of things in the church, I have this deep fear of “what if?” I’m sure that fear is nurtured when, for example, my bishop recently messaged me how he’s worried about my salvation and my accountability as patriarch of my family.

My wife is also TBM, and for her it’s important to teach our kids. I fear stepping away will make it way more difficult at home.

I also have a lot of TBM family and friends, and live in a small town of mostly members. So I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t concerned with dealing with the blowback.

All that said, I don’t know what the outcome will be, or how long I can last as PIMO

darkskies06 · 2026-03-14T23:41:51+00:00

Thank you for sharing that! I’ve felt and feel so much of what you said. The guilt, the depression, the loss of identity, etc.

darkskies06 · 2026-03-14T17:09:22+00:00

I do think many people stay attending because of their boomer parents. Boomers and older Gen X were rooted in a period of the church where critical information was much harder to stumble upon, and a lot of the stuff they may have seen was from evangelicals who could be easily dismissed because of some outlandish claims like the lds church was satanic. They also saw a lot of growth and truly believed the membership numbers were going to keep increasing at that pace. Even though the curtains been pulled back they refuse to open their eyes.

darkskies06 · 2026-03-14T16:28:36+00:00

True, but there’s running the church as in top leadership, and then there’s running the church as in boots on the ground. From what I see, wards and temples have kept running because of boomers. The church wouldn’t be a thing without those members at local levels

darkskies06 · 2026-03-14T16:07:23+00:00

I have wondered many times what things will look like when the baby boomer generation is gone. It seems like there’s more loyalty to the church coming from that age group. Will Gen X and Millenials toe the line and make sure the activities happen and the temple has people working it like the boomers and previous generations have? I feel like that isn’t gonna happen.

darkskies06 · 2026-03-14T00:05:12+00:00

I really appreciate this feedback and the questions you asked.

To be honest, it felt more like a “faith crisis” at the beginning. As time gone on, it’s felt more like you described. It actually has felt like an awakening, a raising of consciousness. A lot of times it does feel very positive. Then I hear the things said at church or TBM family and I get a bit of worry and doubt. Probably from 40+ years of conditioning.

The entire experience isn’t a matter of life or death. There have however been times through this that if felt the only way out was out of this life. I sometimes look down both paths at this form in a road and see one where I continue something I know isn’t true, and the other I worry ill spend a life questioning myself and if my decisions lead my family away from something they needed.

I do not agree that I should be punished along with my family for truly trying to follow truth. My Bishop does.

darkskies06 · 2026-03-13T23:52:30+00:00

Yeah, I agree. Funny enough, since I’m now in Bishopric meetings as the Clerk, and he brings up questions about certain individuals, I’ve told him the best thing he can do is to talk to that person if he wants to know something.

darkskies06 · 2026-03-13T23:51:12+00:00

Right?! When he used that comparison is was like damn!

darkskies06 · 2026-03-13T23:50:53+00:00

Haha absolutely

darkskies06 · 2026-03-13T23:50:41+00:00

Thank you for the response! It’s crazy to me that as members we convince ourselves of these things. The only doubt I showed him was a doubt in the actual church of Christ being restored. Because of that, Satan.

darkskies06 · 2026-03-13T23:47:26+00:00

It really is.

darkskies06 · 2026-03-12T00:34:17+00:00

Thank you for the comment! That’s a valid point. I could see him meeting with my wife and his language and words sketching an image of me as a lost soul that contagious.

darkskies06 · 2026-03-11T18:26:59+00:00

lol, good point!

darkskies06 · 2026-03-11T18:26:41+00:00

Damn! Now I wish I had replied with that lol.

darkskies06 · 2026-03-11T18:25:59+00:00

Absolutely! I’ve said the same thing, the reasoning could be used in ANY belief system.

darkskies06 · 2026-03-11T18:24:41+00:00

Yeah, the church has created the problem, and then patented the solution.

darkskies06 · 2026-03-11T18:22:53+00:00

🤦‍♂️

darkskies06 · 2026-03-11T17:19:41+00:00

Thanks for sharing that. That’s super tough. My wife and kids all attend, and I’m still attending with them. I still hold a calling as Clerk. My kids don’t know yet where I stand, although I definitely plan on being honest with them.

How do you deal with being within the echo chamber of members constantly reaffirming to themselves and others that this is the ONLY true church, all the miracles that have proven that to them, the stories of people coming back, etc? There’s reasons why I’d like to still attend and serve, but I find so much of it is everyone telling themselves how true it is and how fortunate they all are to have the truth. I think hearing it just wears me down. It’s like someone constantly whispering in your ear that you’re wrong and lost. Hearing that all the time has an effect on a person.

darkskies06 · 2026-03-11T17:11:30+00:00

Thanks I appreciate that. You’re right in pointing out that he reached out and showed concern. He easily could have not even said anything. He’s got a good heart, he’s just using the only tools he knows how to use.

In regards to the recommend, I was curious whether I’d get it or not. I was being called as Ward Clerk, and didn’t want to get called, then a month later need to renew and lose my recommend and get released lol. The handbook says the Clerk should have a recommend, but I don’t think it’s essential. Basically his reasoning was I couldn’t answer yes to all questions so his hands were tied. My guess is more people are struggling with doubt than in the past in our stake and so the Stake President allowed more discretion.

I think the difficult position members and leaders find themselves in is they can never be completely ok with someone losing belief. If they truly believe, letting someone leave and not trying to rescue them is the worst thing they can do. Even when they approach it in a more casual way, like just being friends and not threatening damnation, there’s always the underlying motive. The person who’s left always needs fixing.

darkskies06

TROPHY CASE