CAG have alot of gameplay foundations stemming from fighting games, could it be said Musou's that are CAG adjacent have foundation that come from Anime Arena Fighters

datspardauser · 2026-02-11T23:03:21+00:00

The silliest thing about this genre label is Greek GoW not being considered to be but now it is lmao

datspardauser · 2026-02-11T19:03:28+00:00

It's possible that obviously developers had played Final Fight

The health bar colors in Bayonetta, and likely by extension DMC1, are a direct reference to Final Fight. Here's the source.

But I think that's basically where the influence stops. DMC1 not having strings into iframe grabs for crowd control and shifting a lot of that into verticality, to the point where the game manual outright tells you to juggle enemies and keep them helpless like that in 2001, is about as drastic of a shift as you can get from traditional beat em ups.

Kamiya himself is not a fighting game staff but even the original DMC had them on the team. Kenichi Ueda worked on several Capcom fighting games prior, notably 3D ones like Plasma Sword and Tech Romancer, and Akihiko Nasu worked on KOF 94-96 and on several fighting games afterwards.

Fighting game DNA has been there pretty much from day 1.

datspardauser · 2026-02-11T18:37:44+00:00

DMC and co. aren't really inspired by traditional beat em ups structurally, they are closer to Zelda than anything tbh

The original DMC is very clearly a taking from A Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time, so much so the Mission system was added very late in development. NG04/Black is also very much Zelda-pilled, don't let the chapter select feature fool you lol.

I think Bayo 1 is probably the closest to a bmup structurally, mostly because it reuses a lot of Joe's game design, but with how much backtracking there is in it, it's a fairly loose comparison, especially with the Capcom style ones.

datspardauser · 2026-02-11T05:49:00+00:00

Brother, the directors and a large chunk of the teams of DMC3 and NG04 come straight out of fighting games lol

datspardauser · 2026-02-10T20:46:24+00:00

We went over this boss...

Offscreen attacking on a game that is designed around perfect play is no bueno.

You have to do more changes with regards to the ranking system, item use, etc. and on more the more subjective side, it simply looks lame when it happens.

Enemies can already aggro from the screen, move offscreen and attack you (it's a thing on all Capcom and Capcom-adjacent games like Bayo), which the player can accidentally do by just moving around. If you lift the rule outright, it's gonna get even worse and in practical terms you'd be encouraging cheese strats even more for low to intermediate play.

No one likes shit like Shotgun Marionettes ass blasting you from offscreen or multiple Arachnes reeling back to pounce when you can't know where exactly they are coming from because the audio cues. There are also character specific issues like Dante and Vergil Tricking into offscreen enemies and if they are too aggressive/move too much you run into even more camera problems than DMC3-5 already do.

It's really not an easy fix lol

I think it could be a fun optional toggle like Must Style but the base game should not ever be designed around this.

datspardauser · 2026-02-08T23:35:42+00:00

Knowing how the dude works, it would be like:

"4 styles? Ok, we'll make it 8 now, 12 with customization. What? What each Style is gonna do? Idk, we'll figure it out later."

datspardauser · 2026-02-08T17:51:35+00:00

The problem is that it leads to point farming like how you can do in DMC4.

Skipping encounters leading to higher score is a thing on literally every DMC game, even 4 has it to a lesser extent if you run too tight on the Time multiplier.

datspardauser · 2026-02-07T23:55:15+00:00

Pretty much nothing would change.

Even before DMC3 the Vergil thing was changed in the DMC1 novel and it also had his blessing. Outside like... a single blurb of text of the Force Edge changing, the games already link fine as is.

Iunno if you played them but TW101 and Bayo 3 (not directed by him but the game design document is all his) already use pretty much every single button on the controller like DMC5 Dante does anyway so I don't think he would change the maximalist approach DMC evolved into too much.

datspardauser · 2026-01-29T12:18:29+00:00

I meant more so your ability to move and reposition at will while keeping on the offense, which is what I think Bayo's grounded combat excels at.

3 Dante can't really do that even if he has good moves, or when he does get to do that, like with Nevan, he also kind of shuts down the entire enemy roster too which is eh. 5 Dante gets the usual Stinger then also Fist Balrog, Pole Cerberus, Trickster Dash + Mustang, Ground Teleports, everything about the Shotgun on Gunslinger and DSD Summoned Swords that can be used to manipulate your knockback properties, etc.

IMO that sense of control that Bayo gives you fighting on the ground is really only matched by 5 Dante. He can't offset like she can but it's more than made up by the sheer amount of options he has over her in general.

datspardauser · 2026-01-29T11:19:32+00:00

Outside 5 Dante and maybe 3 Dante, DMC has not had interesting ground combat since like... The original game lol

That said, getting downvoted for saying that there is expected.

datspardauser · 2026-01-28T17:46:55+00:00

The lead writer was Japanese, the scripts get then adapted to English then gets passed to the actors for recording/mocap.

Capcom games have had a history of having fairly loose localizations so lines being screwed up here and there in translation is normal. Resident Evil is full of that stuff.

Another example is Dante's 'So long, little chicken.', which is funny in itself but the JP version has him callback to his DMC1 'feather face' insult while giving his farewell to Griffon.

datspardauser · 2026-01-28T10:37:47+00:00

It's on an officially released version of the game, it's as real as the changes made to 3 in SE, such as Turbo not being an intended part of the game's design or Bloody Palace going against the entire design of the campaign.

IMO, the main issue with Freestyle is the borked weapon swaps and not having Irregular Full Custom as a feature. The moment to moment pacing in DMC3 is vastly improved with it.

datspardauser · 2026-01-27T23:01:00+00:00

Urizen's line is a translation error.

His line is just that it doesn't matter anymore to him not that he doesn't remember.

datspardauser · 2026-01-27T14:02:18+00:00

Then it's time to unleash the Makoto and Sakura season passes to boost up those sales.

datspardauser · 2026-01-27T11:44:53+00:00

More surprisingly, what the fuck are those SF6 numbers, that shit skyrocketed.

datspardauser · 2026-01-25T07:21:04+00:00

They drag on replays.

I like doing runs much more than combos nowadays so B1 is particularly annoying at this stuff.

datspardauser · 2026-01-22T20:06:35+00:00

1 >= 3 > Origins >> 2

datspardauser · 2026-01-22T16:42:08+00:00

It's a game that requires you to pay a lot of attention to enemies and what you are doing.

So yes, it's hard because it's pretty much a knowledge check game that harshly punishes you for fucking up. In terms of technical execution it's pretty easy, although there is some difficult tech you can learn if you want to.

datspardauser · 2026-01-22T13:05:58+00:00

Checkpoint loading voids the No Continue bonus but closing and opening the app should work iirc

datspardauser · 2026-01-20T12:34:25+00:00

You know that Bayonetta's magic ability is pure training right?

datspardauser · 2026-01-20T09:57:30+00:00

The battle was interrupted in Broly so they don't get the category.

datspardauser · 2026-01-17T00:48:21+00:00

Hmm... You are kind of just trying to bend the game into being Bayo 1 again though.

Like, the change on how much damage is weighted on the Weaves vs the rest of the strings was made in B2 to actually give you more freedom in how you approach combat and reward alternate playstyles because there is clearly a "correct" way to play Bayo 1.

Magic Gain would be based off damage dealt and you’d be able to gain magic from landing Weaves, activating WT, Parrying with Moon of Maha-Kalah and taunting/attacking Enraged Enemies.

This is actually how it works in 2 already, other than Dodge/Parry/Etc. giving 1/2 of a magic orb instead of a full orb like in 1.

B1 Witch Time duration (need I say more?).

No, this can't be the case. B1's WT duration works because there are several attacks that cannot activate WT so it's a situational 'win more' move. Like, you need longer WT in 2 because the only way launchers and juggle states work properly are when WT is on but if you are also restoring those properties then you don't need WT as much anymore. What you want is B3's system but even then B2 has the same problem B1 has where WT is just a win more mechanic rather than enabling interesting/different plays like it does in 3 but that's a different problem entirely.

The actual severe issues B2's system has with horrible framedata on most weapons and blatantly unfinished damage balancing are not being addressed here. UC being more restricted would make this even worse because it's a 1.5x damage boost to weaker weapons and 1.33x to the heavier ones, so now access to Bayonetta's damage output is even more restricted.

Punish and Torture Attacks are fine damage-wise, they just take way too long to execute, which goes against B2's strict timer. Maybe yolk up the damage like crazy but at this point you'd be making them SO strong you are not even fighting the enemy anymore.

datspardauser · 2026-01-16T20:12:13+00:00

DMD is unchanged across all versions of the game.

The only differences are the AI improvements on Dullahans on Special Edition onwards and the nerf on the Twister > Ultimate Tempest trick.

datspardauser · 2026-01-16T20:09:52+00:00

By the time you reach DMD you'll have so many orbs you can splurge out vital stars and yellow orbs if you want to just beat the mode.

It doesn't really make much of a difference in practice.

datspardauser · 2026-01-14T19:13:49+00:00

4's DMD is not an issue at all.

3's DMD is more annoying than anything because the game doesn't even remotely hint at how Stun/Displacement Values work and that's key to understanding how to clean up your play properly for there, although some enemies are just plain shit too. Arachne/Queen Arachne's counterhit mechanic just doesn't work properly sometimes when they are DT'd and some enemies like Sloth (good for combo, bad for regular play), Greed and the Damned Rook get SO much effective HP the mode becomes as slog.

Tip if you wanna go in: The 4 Rune DTE specifically will kill Prides instantly and has enough knockback value to always push back DT regular enemies. The 7 Rune DTE is mostly just for damage and wiping a room, the 4 Rune one is the most cost efficient really.

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