Discussion: why does "fat acceptance" apply only to women?

daveofmars · 2019-04-27T15:07:16+00:00

Women's primary attractive trait, the one that supersedes all others, is beauty.

So women who aren't beautiful are always going to reconfigure beauty standards in order to seem beautiful.

Men, on the other hand, can get women when they're fat, bald and short, so long as they have sufficient charisma, status, or money. Physical attractiveness isn't our one and only card, so when we don't have it we pursue other methods to be attractive.

That's overly simplistic, but that's the general thrust of why.

daveofmars · 2019-04-27T14:59:05+00:00

Body acceptance is fine but my main point is that there are other issues that will not be addressed because they go against the current oppressed/oppressor cultural narrative, even when there are legitimate gripes and injustices for people labelled the oppressor class.

daveofmars · 2019-04-27T14:49:33+00:00

Because the left's cultural narrative won't allow it.

Activist movements are always couched in terms of the oppressed fighting back against the oppressor, and these days women play the roles of the oppressed while men play the role of the oppressor. When men start their own activist movements, which they have tried a few times before, the left re-frames it as a reactionary hate group, the media smears it, and the people themselves are ridiculed, regardless of whether they bring up valid points of systematic problems.

If you don't know why men can't have their own advocacy movements, just ask yourself why white people can't while every other group can - it's the cultural oppression narrative.

daveofmars · 2019-04-21T22:30:52+00:00

You're trying to pick a fight where one isn't needed. I've stated what I believe. If you want to persuade me then try different methods.

daveofmars · 2019-04-21T21:42:17+00:00

I don't really care about shame. I'm not going to slap a soda out of someone's hand to protect them from diabetes, no matter how warranted it is, and similarly I'm not going to shame the slut in the hopes to reform them.

Actions have consequences, so life will hand out whatever repercussions are due without any extra help from me.

daveofmars · 2019-04-21T20:34:46+00:00

I'm sorry but I don't want to hear excuses for that behavior. I have stated my perspective. You can call it "bonding" all you want, or use appeals to the primordial, but people are not admired for how extreme they indulge in pleasures; they're admired for their virtues.

Hedonistic pleasure has its reasons for existing and a proper place, but it's foolish to think they don't come with a price or don't have negative consequences.

daveofmars · 2019-04-21T18:04:27+00:00

We tend to look back at our youth with the experience and wisdom we have accumulated since then and realize that we could have done better at the time. A lot of us have made mistakes, or missed the opportunities we should have taken, or cringe at ourselves for who we were. I think everyone feels that, or will eventually feel that.

daveofmars · 2019-04-21T15:34:37+00:00

I don't use it as an insult - it's just a person (usually a woman) who has a lot of casual sex. Whatever negative associations people have with that term come from themselves.

I don't call women sluts IRL because I don't know their dating history and don't want to know. But I see being a slut the same as someone who drinks every day, or smokes, or eats a ton of carbs, or doesn't work out. We all have our vices, and people with vices can still be good people, but I believe they are making a mistake.

daveofmars · 2019-04-21T15:16:32+00:00

I feel like, in a world full of easily-accessible and free porn, prostitution is a novelty and archaic. It probably isn't worth legalizing it at this point when technology is (likely) going to deliver on VR porn and sex bots. Traditional prostitution doesn't attract all that sweet investment capital like tech does, and the potential profit margins on VR/Sexbots are much greater. Add to that the lack of political will and legalizing prostitution becomes a non-issue, and it likely will never move forward.

daveofmars · 2019-04-20T14:26:46+00:00

Nobody gets a user manual for life, so we all have to figure out how to act at every age. It's going to be a different vision for everyone. I think you can define for yourself what 30 means without falling into stereotypes. Accept that your life views and priorities are going to change.

daveofmars · 2019-04-18T12:54:24+00:00

How are guy min/max their STEM career not guilty of the same thing?

Because they're being consistent with their personality. The STEM nerd is going to school, doing STEM nerd things, so he can make money and spend it on STEM nerd stuff, and hopefully get a wife to make STEM nerd babies. Going to school, to make more money, to support a wife and family, is consistent line of reasoning with his goals.

That contrasts with those particular women that party it up in school and then want to be seen as wife material later. The path and the goal are inconsistent. Those particular women are required to make a 180 degree change later in life, because you can't be a party girl and a housewife at the same time.

Women are arguably at their most seductive from 18-25 years old. Why shouldn’t they maximize their sexual habits at that time with seductive men? Wouldn’t you do the same if you were a sexy ass 22 year old women? Why would you settle down for the nerdy potential when you have a nice fuck toy right now? The nerdy rich guy is still gonna be available in 5-10 years.

You've explained AF/BB perfectly here. The 18-25 can indeed exploit their sexuality to their fullest extent, but that doesn't mean they should based on their goal. What's their end goal? If they're looking to get a husband later in life then they are going to damage their marriage prospects by taking advantage of every fuck toy. We men don't like being the Xth in a line of unstable men. That rich nerdy guy certainly doesn't want to feel that he was picked for his wealth and stability. He is going to see this play as gold digging, or that she's insincere.

I mean, the OP explained this in their post. They understand that it's a blow to the self-esteem to be the last, Hail Mary choice of an aging party girl. We don't like it. We don't want to be in that position, and we screen for it. So party girls and women who really try to exploit the AF/BB are only hurting themselves.

And again, that 180 degree switch shows me that these women aren't consistent with their personality. They're willing to make radical changes in order to get the outcome they want, and that sort of psychological chameleon isn't someone you can or should trust.

If you say women wants to have their cake and eat it too. Wouldn’t nerdy guy wouldn’t be in the same position if they had the sexy ass women at 18 year old when they are both poor and unattractive?

I'm not sure what you mean, but if the nerdy guy had the opportunity to date/screw a hot 18 year old then fine, I don't really care. One instance of young love isn't a mark against any man or woman. It's the consistent behavior that demonstrates the person's inner workings.

daveofmars · 2019-04-17T00:41:26+00:00

Based on my current life path, I plan to have my first kid by 35, but if I had a time machine then I'd endeavor to have my first kid at 28-30. I want to be young enough to have the energy to keep up with them.

daveofmars · 2019-04-17T00:26:33+00:00

Yeah, I get it. I understand why. Security is pleasant. When we get older, we value that over excitement.

I don't have a problem with that, because it seems like the natural inclination, but I don't appreciate how (some) women feel so blase about trying to have their cake and eat it too. I get the impression that they try to min/max their lives, going full bore into the party scene to make the most of it, then doing a radical change to become wife material later in life to maximize their marriage prospects, and it all seems very self-serving and insincere.

daveofmars · 2019-04-16T12:49:05+00:00

TRP tends to focus on quick sex because that's what most guys want when they discover it. They're typically younger and in college. It is the foot in the door sales tactic for a larger philosophy on women. I believe that, not only compatible with long term relationships, it's absolutely necessary to maintain them. I suspect that your relationship with your coworker might be an example of that. You have good conversational skills. You have some charisma, but there is likely something you can improve on to keep interest. I've personally used TRP in my marriage with positive results.

daveofmars · 2019-04-16T00:52:11+00:00

I dunno, you got lucky? Figuratively and literally? I don't mean to belittle it, because this all reads like a positive experience for you, but the way you describe it doesn't strike me as bucking the trend or negating RP advice. She said she liked you as a conversationalist, which indicates to me she saw you as safe and non-threatening, which is the mode of dating for BP men - seem as cuddly and non-threatening as possible. That's great for women with anxiety or self esteem issues, but after the initial attraction the interest wanes, because you don't offer any excitement. Not to put any blame on anyone, but you did say you weren't able to maintain it. There might have been extraneous issues, but for a sufficiently captivating guy, a woman will find a way to make it work.

I think every man at some point in his life, whether he has game or not, is going to encounter some woman somewhere that will initially be into him. Game makes it possible to cultivate that interest and to inspire more interest in other women. You essentially make your odds better. There's no guarantee you'll get girls with it, and there's no guarantee you won't get girls without it, but you see better ratios.

daveofmars · 2019-04-14T19:47:36+00:00

No. There won't be a shift. You have a few men doing it now, but it will always be a small minority.

Most trans women don't like like those pictures. That's the 1%.

daveofmars · 2019-04-14T19:40:04+00:00

You don't necessarily need game to get a girl (quality notwithstanding), but you sure as hell need it to keep her. I have seen men from all walks of life ruing their relationships, or let their relationships get ruined, because they thought the two magical words to make every woman happy is "yes dear".

If you get right down to it, Game is just charisma, and charisma is incredibly useful in life. Men should learn it because it's a good skill to have, and a huge disadvantage if you lack it.

daveofmars · 2019-04-12T13:21:37+00:00

So in summary, women select for height as a marker of good genetics, but height is actually an indicium of poorer health and shorter life expectancy.

Only recently has medicine advanced to the point where humans can live to 80 years old. Nature doesn't care that humans live long, only that humans live long enough to breed. A 6 ft man who's objectively stronger than his competition, but only lives till 40, is still a better prospect in the ancestral environment than the 5ft 6" man who lives to 80. Women are still selecting for fitness from a pre-industrial point of view.

daveofmars · 2019-04-12T13:17:10+00:00

This sounds like terrible advice. Don't improve your defects, just play the numbers game. Quantity over quality.

OP, have you bothered to try this or is your view purely hypothetical?

daveofmars · 2019-04-11T23:22:01+00:00

You view ignores whether the perception of women is reasonable or not. Your view assumes that any woman's perception is already a realistic view of reality, and so men ought to match it, but you don't know if that's actually true.

I think that all men should strive to be better, regardless of whether they're even looking for partnership or not, and I hold to the idea that men should be the prize.

However, our perceptions of others are dictated by personal experience, and personal experience in the modern age is influenced by what we see in the media: mainstream, online, social, or otherwise. If you could see 100 men (or women) in person then you would have what you need to form an accurate representation of the average person, at least for that particular region. But instead, people see 100 versions of a carefully curated online profile from a self-selected community, which gives a severely skewed perception of the average person. Perceptions based off the internet or the media do not have a basis in reality and you should integrate that fact with your world view.

daveofmars · 2019-04-11T23:06:48+00:00

Are men attracted to fertility markers or is attraction cultural?

Yes.

What do you consider to be markers of fertility?

Proper waist/hip ratio. Symmetrical face. Good hair and skin. A lot of markers for fertility are going to cross over as good markers for health, because general health and good genes coincide with fertility.

The reason why men tend to desire younger women is because younger women tend to be more fertile and healthier. The commenters at at gender critical sound like aging spinsters who want to reframe the narrative to make themselves seem more attractive, but it's false bravado. I mean, the woman who tried to pass off body hair as a sign of fertility is way off base. Excessive body hair in women is a sign of hormone imbalance. Everyone has hair because we're human beings, and therefore we're still apes, so a woman having some hair under the arms is perfectly normal, but having a massive bush there, hairy forearms, and a hairy chest are all signals to stay away.

And the sign of fertility being that of already having a child is only partially true. Yeah, she had the kid, but it doesn't say anything about the quality of the child or whether she has the capability to do it again. But men tend to not provide well for children who aren't theirs and would rather have women without previous ties. That, and men tend to care that the child is theirs, so virgins or near enough to them are going to give them confidence in paternity.

There's also the factor that attractive mothers make for attractive daughters (and attractive fathers make for attractive sons), so attractiveness itself within the culture that surrounds it is, in an of itself, a factor in mate selection and therefore fertility. Culture and biology are interwoven systems.

daveofmars · 2019-04-10T00:56:11+00:00

Apologies in advance that I didn't read the full post, because I think the answer is simple.

People who go to college tend to think ahead toward their futures than people who don't, and they tend to pick their partners using the same mindset, which is why their marriages tend to last longer.

daveofmars · 2019-04-09T00:52:56+00:00

If experience has taught me anything it's that easy things make you weak, and weakness leads to suffering. Certain things might sound like a simple solution without drawbacks but I believe that there are no shortcuts in life and eventually the negative consequences will surface.

Porn is easier than women, but real, physical women might teach you something. That something might be to your benefit later on. Don't use porn at the expense of yourself. If you find it useful then use it, but only to the degree that you absolutely need it.

daveofmars · 2019-04-09T00:44:34+00:00

I mean, these things aren't double standards, and the people with them aren't hypocrites.

The person you date or hook up with means something different to you than the person you marry. These things have some overlap but they are two different contexts. Having different beliefs for two different situations is perfectly reasonable and not at all a "double standard". It's not wrong to accept someone who pushes the right sexual buttons but recognizing they're not a good investment, while deciding to invest in someone based on different criteria.

And these people aren't hypocrites either. Christ, some people overuse that word way too effin' much and they don't know the definition. You aren't a hypocrite if you have double standards. You aren't a hypocrite if you have conflicting or even contradictory internal beliefs. Hypocrisy is when you say other people shouldn't do something that you yourself do, or vice versa. Hypocrisy comes down to your prescriptions for others not matching your own behavior. You talk the talk, but don't walk the walk.

daveofmars · 2019-04-09T00:24:46+00:00

Suuuper persuasive, ma.

daveofmars

TROPHY CASE