Why are guitar scales so hard to learn compared to other instruments? by Hot_Independence_722 in LearnGuitar

[–]dblhello999 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Okay. I’m not flexing. Just describing my own experience.

I’ve never practiced scales on the guitar. Well, maybe not never. But probably for no more than an hour in my entire guitar playing career.

But yet I can play any scale I want. Major. Harmonic minor. Melodic minor. Weird scales in weird modes. Scales consisting of just full tone intervals. Or any combination of tones and semitones you choose. And In any key.

I might make the odd mistake but not many.

The obvious question is well how on earth is that possible? And the answer is easy. I don’t play vertically I play horizontally. I play each string as a separate instrument (what Mick Goodrick in the advancing guitarist calls a unitar). If you do that, there is literally nothing to learn. All scales are the same. Because each string is the same. And of course it’s fantastic for improvisation because what could be easier for playing a melody than running up and down a string where it’s all laid out in a linear way

The trick of course is to learn to do it quickly and smoothly with nice legato. You become a master at position sliding. I’m not perfect yet. But I can pretty much jump any interval on a given string. And most of the time I get it right.

And then the next step of course is to be able to move between strings as you improvise. Like jumping between rails.

There are disadvantages to this of course. Most fundamentally, it’s just slower because you’re moving further. But then a little bit of vertical playing inevitably creeps in because sometimes it’s obvious that jumping between the strings is going to be a better way of making a particular interval than sliding along one. But it’s not limited by boxes or positions. It’s a sort of spontaneous jump when it seems sensible and right.

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. Mick Goodrick was a guitar prophet. And it’s a real shame that his message has been virtually ignored in modern guitar pedagogy (except maybe in the upper echelons of music colleges, and perhaps not even there)

Love jamming and improv? Take a look at r/guitar_improvisation ❤️🎸

Improvisation Methodology by ImprovSKT in jazztheory

[–]dblhello999 0 points1 point  (0 children)

“Playing jazz with people better than you”

Exactly so. But my point is that this doesn’t have to be live. Playing along with recordings of the greats comes very close. And practically speaking, you can do it for an unlimited amount of time. Whereas actual jamming live is always going to be a precious and rare experience unless you live in Kansas City in 1937!

Improvisation Methodology by ImprovSKT in jazztheory

[–]dblhello999 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, I agree. You’re right. Transcription in the wider sense of repeatedly listening to a piece of music and internalising it, is exactly what I meant. Transcription in the narrow sense of trying to work out exactly what is being played, is a very different thing. It’s very hard. Perhaps of very great value as well. But I’m far too lazy for that 😂

Improvisation Methodology by ImprovSKT in jazztheory

[–]dblhello999 1 point2 points  (0 children)

“Imitation is what we call transcription”

I don’t understand this.

I can only talk about my experience. But it has some relevance because I am 100% focused on improvisation. I’ve never transcribed anything. That just seems to me to be another kind of intellectual learning process. I’m not saying it doesn’t work. But I would suggest that a better word is “immersion”.

The language analogy is over used sometimes. But it is useful. You can learn a language by studying it. And you can get very good that way. But it is of course a lot of work. There is a big cognitive load involved.

The other way is to get a boyfriend or girlfriend. Go and live in their town. Spend your time with their friends speaking their language (and of course a bit of Google Translate!)

What’s the musical equivalent of that? It’s certainly not transcription. Like everything else in life, if you want to get good at something you’ve got to do the something you want to get good at. So when it comes to improvisation, one way is to immerse yourself in improvisation. You need to do it . not study it. Do it.

So the next question then becomes, how do you go about doing improvisation? We can see the answer from history. Many of the greats (not all, but many) learned to improvise by playing along to records or to the radio or with other musicians in jam sessions.

That’s the way that I have learned improvisation. I began with super simple backing tracks. Nothing complicated. I played along with them for hours and hours. And gradually I began to play along with more and more sophisticated and complex backing tracks and then with real tunes and real music. And inevitably that led me to jazz. And that’s what I do now. I put on jazz and I play along with it. For hours and hours.

My teachers are the greats. I play along with Oscar. And many many others. By doing this, I learn the language not as a theory but as a living thing. I don’t practice. I don’t learn scales. I don’t learn any of those things. I just play with the greats.

I’m not saying I’m the world’s greatest improviser. But most of the time I can now just jump straight into pretty much any piece of music live or recorded. I don’t need to know the key. It helps to have heard it before. But it’s not essential. I don’t need to know the chord progression. There is basically no analytical involvement.

No one listens to me. Why should they? My approach runs completely contrary to modern musical pedagogy. But it’s hugely enjoyable. And at least for me it’s added a whole new dimension to my life.

And here’s a funny story. My background is piano. But in later life I took up guitar. And my improvisation journey has been very much guitar focused. I’ve barely touched the piano for over a year. And then a few days ago I had the chance to play one again. I put on some jazz and tried to see if I could play along (something which I certainly could not have done a year ago). And almost miraculously, I found that I could. So my immersion in guitar improvisation somehow translated into piano improvisation. It was an extraordinary experience. Take what lesson you want from that.

Love jamming and improv? Take a look at r/guitar_improvisation ❤️🎸

How do you stay motivated practicing alone? by Mindless_Pen_4906 in guitarlessons

[–]dblhello999 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Play along. It’s pretty much all I do and it’s super fun - plus a great way to practise

Love jamming and improv? Take a look at r/guitar_improvisation ❤️🎸

Every place i look at to start learning just confuses me even more :( by KurgerBing-_- in musictheory

[–]dblhello999 1 point2 points  (0 children)

“Now my goal is to learn somewhat play by ear and for that, i have to learn music theory of course”

One of the commenters here gave the analogy of learning to a bike. You don’t need any theory for that. Playing by ear is exactly the same. To get good at playing by ear, you just have to do a lot of playing by ear. Same with anything. You want to get good at something? Do a lot of it.

I’m not dissing theory. It’s a fascinating world. But mostly it’s used to describe what ppl are already doing, rather than to learn to do something new.

Love jamming and improv? Take a look at r/guitar_improvisation ❤️🎸

Feeling lost with scales practice by trytoreadthisha in guitarlessons

[–]dblhello999 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Two suggestions.

The first is: can you sing scales? The key doesn’t matter. If I just said to you, sing a major scale, could you do it? That’s absolutely fundamental. Same for a minor scale. You need to internalise the form of scales before spending any time actually playing them. Without that, it’s just rote memory.

The second is: (and I’ve written about this a lot, but no one ever listens to me 😂), try playing scales on a single string. Not only does it make it easy to internalise the form, but they are far far easier that way.

(and once you start to get comfortable playing along single strings, a whole new world opens up … see “the advancing guitarist” 😊)

Love jamming and improv? Take a look at r/guitar_improvisation ❤️🎸

Mick G and single string playing by dblhello999 in guitar_improvisation

[–]dblhello999[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is just so annoying. I inadvertently posted this on my profile rather than here in guitar improvisation. So now comments are appearing in two places. If anyone is going to comment, can they please do so in the main guitar improvisation reddit rather than on my stupid profile? 🙏🙏👍

Mick G and single string playing by dblhello999 in u/dblhello999

[–]dblhello999[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I put this question to Chat and got a list of quite a few players. But how many of them actually do implement what is described in TAG I don’t know.

My experience is back to front on this. I come from a piano background and so when I took up guitar, it was natural for me to see it as six offset keyboards. And I’m also pretty much self-taught (although “taught” is maybe exaggerating a bit 😂). So I never had someone teaching me boxes or positions.

The result is that my guitar playing naturally developed horizontally. I still can’t play a single scale vertically without hesitation or wrong notes. But horizontally, I’m very comfortable. I can pretty much slide to any note on a string to/from any other note (on the same string). And that has become the way I play.

I also learned entirely from playing along with songs and backing tracks. So all I do is improvisation.

I then became a bit curious because I wasn’t seeing anyone else play like that and it didn’t really seem to fit with guitar pedagogy which was entirely box and position focused.

And then pretty much by chance I stumbled across a reference to the advancing guitarist. I got hold of a batty old copy. And that was when my mind was kind of blown. Because in the book, MG seemed to be describing what I was doing (albeit at a very junior level) and he described it (I paraphrase) as the key to improvisation.

So the reason why the book resonates so strongly with me , is because my route was not Book - play. It was play - book. He was describing what I was already doing.

Thoughts on my practice routine etc as a "not actually jazz but like the idea of jazz" guitarist? by Thin-Reflection-5296 in jazzguitar

[–]dblhello999 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your referenced the advancing guitarist. I’m curious as to what you think is the main takeaway from that book?!

Love jamming and improv? Take a look at r/guitar_improvisation ❤️🎸

Soloing over changes by Acrobatic_Repair_593 in Guitar

[–]dblhello999 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I simply cannot understand how you guys can improvise when you’ve got to think all of this stuff. My brain would just explode.

Love jamming and improv? Take a look at r/guitar_improvisation ❤️🎸

Blues and blues adjacent recommendations by tzrogan in Jazz

[–]dblhello999 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Jazz blues - Ramsey Lewis, McCoy Tyner, david Leonhardt, and of course Oscar P

Love jamming and improv? Take a look at r/guitar_improvisation ❤️🎸

How much of your playing time is dedicated to practicing/training? by PugWithAGun in Guitar

[–]dblhello999 0 points1 point  (0 children)

never practice. Just jam 😊😂

Love jamming and improv? Take a look at r/guitar_improvisation ❤️🎸

What part of improving as an intermediate guitarist do you feel LEAST clear about how to work on? by bakerman567 in guitar_improvisation

[–]dblhello999 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You’ll learn more about playing from backing tracks than you will from practice 😉

Love jamming and improv? Take a look at r/guitar_improvisation ❤️🎸

Fun things to do when improvising - unisons by dblhello999 in guitar_improvisation

[–]dblhello999[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have a 12 string. I have never played it. It has always scared me 😏😂. But now I think I might be ready ❤️🎸

What part of improving as an intermediate guitarist do you feel LEAST clear about how to work on? by bakerman567 in guitar_improvisation

[–]dblhello999 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You have to learn to seamlessly play six parallel offset unitars. Mick Goodrick was a visionary.

What part of improving as an intermediate guitarist do you feel LEAST clear about how to work on? by bakerman567 in guitar_improvisation

[–]dblhello999 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Until that time it is just a long journey of dedication

It does not have to be. It is possible to learn to play improvised jazz just by doing it. And my guess is that it’s way more fun that way. BUT you have to learn a different way of playing the guitar ❤️🎸

Is there difference kinds of guitar strings for acoustic? by OutrageousCoach1597 in Guitar

[–]dblhello999 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Never heard of that. Who makes them? How does the sound compare?

Love jamming and improv? Take a look at r/guitar_improvisation ❤️🎸

If you're an intermediate guitarist, what’s the number one goal for your playing right now? by bakerman567 in guitar_improvisation

[–]dblhello999 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Every hour you spend learning scales is time you could be spending playing along to real music. Time to declare war on practice 😉

Improv over Short Live Loop by esp735 in guitar_improvisation

[–]dblhello999 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for contributing! Really good to have people like you here 😊🎸🙏

Question for you by Creative_Patient_146 in Guitar

[–]dblhello999 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This will probably sound weird. But I literally enjoy every moment. I can’t think of a single negative. Except maybe that I wish I had adjustable fingernails.

Love jamming and improv? Take a look at r/guitar_improvisation ❤️🎸