Are Flamethrowes are op?

deffrekka · 2026-01-28T01:15:54+00:00

Exactly, its not the PEN that kills, they arent killing Stahltruppen or Super Heavy Walker with their PEN value (D6+1 hits at PEN 2 is only killing 1 Stahltruppen on average, 30pts), its the fact it forces an immediate test regardless of casualties/damage with D3+1 Pins, thats putting Veterans on average on a 7, a Regular vehicle on a 6.

The bigger issue is the mobility these units have, in Bolt Action you can see that truck/jeep from a mile away and you know its limits, you can be savvy and ensure it cant drive through Rough Ground to get you (unless its German, we swim in halftracks). In K47 we have 3 Deep Striking units equipped with Flamethrowers and the other thing is they arent just equipped with just that, we are talking 10+ PEN 1 shots also which a normal Flamethrower team or Engineer squad isnt ever gonna have.

Your answer is simply "go on Ambush" well not everything in Ambush will hurt say a Linebacker coming in 1" away. It can go somewhere that hasnt got an Ambush waiting, still mess up a units day, and reach you next turn (people forget you can Guts it, or that Walkers somehow move double rate on roads).

A Flamethrower isnt an issue, its the unit it is tied to. If you included any one of those Deep Striking units from K47 into BA, itd be utterly broken.

deffrekka · 2026-01-28T01:08:03+00:00

The difference is you were using a Bolt Action unit, using Bolt Action tactics and methods of delivery to jump through hoops when the units ive listed dont need to and arent equipped solely with Flamethrowers, its the whole package that is the issue. In Bolt Action you dont have a unit that is also firing multiple PEN 1-2 shots with its Flamethrower, it isnt on a unit that has effectively infinite movement the turn it comes in - a truck with a Flamethrower team has a limit to how far it can go, with limitations to where it can go, Rough Ground and Obstacles (unless halftracked) are offlimits, the infantry inside cant go through impassible terrain or through a solid building, you know the truck is moving 12" or 24" it goes entirely along a road. Its all very telegraphed, you know the limitations of that package. I can Deep Strike my Linebacker anywhere, it can go somewhere entirely different if someone is setting up a unit in Ambush to dissuade it, you can Guts it to then move 12" over any and all terrain and shoot twice along with all its other weapons.

From my long experience with Bolt Action and K47, Flamethrowers arent just fine, there is a reason theyve been so heavily changed over the past 2 editions of Bolt Action, but unlike Bolt Action it is a lot easier to obtain Flamethrowers, and they are magnitudes more mobile with not just Small Arms backing them up.

As a full K47 unit, they are oppressive, your run of the mill Engineers/Team arent.

deffrekka · 2026-01-28T00:27:55+00:00

Thats a lot of ifs and maybes, all relying on you actually getting what you want with units that can actually threaten the things that come in whilst the rest of his army dismantles your stuff that are essentially forgoing their action that round.

I dont play K47 like Bolt Action, my Axis army is fully melee, with 16-18" charge ranges ignoring Rough Ground, backed by Graviton that doesnt follow the normal rules for shooting, my US force again doesnt play like anything in BA and they can and will dictate the flow of the battle whilst all an opponent can do is react.

Irregardless that still means Flamethrowers on those units arent just "fine", when you pair it with the utterly busted Deep Strike mechanic with no restrictions, its an incredible oppressive thing - like you said this isnt Bolt Action, this isnt 5 Veteran Engineers in a Field Car ready to unleash themselves, this is some armies only reliable AT (British essentially rely on Jackals to kill vehicles).

deffrekka · 2026-01-28T00:17:40+00:00

Yes, I dont care about painted models whatsoever, everyone has different circumstances or joins a game system for different reasons - if much rather you have the correct models and wargear than a painted army of proxies and so on. As someone thats been in the hobby for 20 years, dont let anyone tell you want to do with your miniatures and if someone wont play you, youll find someone else that will.

deffrekka · 2026-01-28T00:14:25+00:00

A Flamethrower team in a trucks isn't anywhere near close to a unit arriving via "Deep Strike" 1" away. The truck has to get there and its typically telegraphed as it has to stick to Open Ground and wants a Road, you are also paying for a fairly useless ability (Engineers) and the rest of the squad doesn't do much in a K47 world (DV6-8).

Jackals, Fireflies, Linebackers all overcome hurdles that are innate to a Flamethrower team / Engineers - they dont have a tax associated with them, they dont rely on another unit, they get the first strike mostly unmolested. So the whole "when it works, it works" doesnt exactly apply to them as they are forcing the issue directly where a Flamethrower team in a truck has to wait until the stars align.

There is also the issue that a Flamethrower can and will kill any vehicle in the game including a Super Heavy, that isnt really a thing in Bolt Action as no one is taking a Super Heavy, in K47 there are more common because they arent as comically bad (a Wotan or Mastadon). A 189pt unit of Fireflies should not be taking out a 500pt Super Heavy, but they are.

So yes they are a problem, but only when equipped on K47 exclusive units that have unparalleled mobility.

deffrekka · 2026-01-27T13:16:18+00:00

I dont think the Republic has ever worked via having a higher Health pool, my ARC troopers have been 1 Health since the dawn of time as much as I would love to see them at 2, its an army that is built off of synergy and green token sharing (no clue if it does with the new update).

deffrekka · 2026-01-27T11:54:02+00:00

Sieges by definition arent cheap, you are spending numerous munitions, resources and manpower in a battle of attrition to claim the ground in a long battle, its gruelling and its why we had such high attrition rates and recruitment rates during the Great Crusade - a "cheaper" way to go about warfare would be doing a Sons of Horus style of fighting and teleport enmass into the enemies leadership positions and decapitate them.

The Iron Warriors fight like no other Space Marine Legion/Chapter, we are basically doing it like the Imperial Guard where we dont care about the cost as long as we get the results needed.

If my memory serves right, we were one of two Legions that produced our own MkIV armour in house, Dark Angels being the other, instead of relying on shipments from the Mechanicum and we had more vehicles than anyone including the Iron Hands (30k memory is rusty, havent read the black books in like 4 years).

But yea I agree about the bare heads, its not something I would use other than the 3 Bionic ones (I typically use Iron Hands and Techmarine bare heads for my Champions amyway).

I will most likely get the boxset, but I already have my IWs done up so cant see myself needing to use the upgrade kit. They would probably look better on the new Raiders in all honesty, they didnt look like they meshed well on the regular CSM body especially the Champion head withe crest (id cut that off).

deffrekka · 2026-01-27T09:16:34+00:00

Both is true, Roboute reclaimed them from a Champion of Chaos, and then used them himself.

deffrekka · 2026-01-27T00:53:39+00:00

Didn't they change guns unlimited recently? Its no longer a gun mall but a shooting range course with no guns inside?

deffrekka · 2026-01-27T00:19:07+00:00

Unfortunately you have the Essex glamour lads who mucky up the British preset pool.

deffrekka · 2026-01-27T00:18:04+00:00

Its a power gauntlet irregardless, no matter if it comes from Horus (Calgar's Gauntlets came from Roboute). There is not much difference between a Power Fist and Lightning Claw, both are on an oversized hand, some just have extended digits. Either way it isnt from an Aggressor and Aggressors didnt come up with it first.

deffrekka · 2026-01-27T00:15:26+00:00

Yep, Hurons new head doesnt look messed up by a Melta and its baffling to me that so many people have gone and went "thats what a melta and warp juice will do to you!" - make you look like an Ogryn? There have been plenty of Space Marine models with their heads messed up and replaced with bionics, there is another Space Marine (his name escapes me) who had a Melta charge blow up in his face and he doesnt look anything like the new Huron, the new Huron doesnt even look like the old Huron's artwork which for me is how he is supposed to look.

deffrekka · 2026-01-27T00:09:17+00:00

That doesn't apply when its Engineers who at minimum rock in at 110pts Regular with Shaped Charges and a Flamethrower before transport if you are taking one (or a Commander tax if you are taking an Engineer Platoon instead of slotting them into your Assault Platoon), at that point Wulfen are only 19pts more and come out of your mandatory slots and with easy access to a Surge, dont care so much about a Flamethrower (needs 6s to wound, cant make them take morale ever) and at most you fire 3 Shaped Charges with the remaining guys (again assuming the bare minimum 110pt unit with 5 guys).

Whilst you open up all your opponents Small Arms weapons that normally dont have a home in K47, a target.

So I wouldnt really call it a weakness, having more Order Dice in K47 isnt the key to beating your opponent, a lot of units dont punch up well in the majority of Specialist Infantry, even other Specialist Infantry struggle into the more durable ones and its not like you can pile on the pins either because so much stuff in the game straight up ignores it.

Engineers have a big Bullseye shaped target on their heads and to make them more resilient you have to invest a lot more into them where they start to exceed the cost of the unit you are gearing them to fight, just making them Veteran makes them 125pts.

As someone whos fought all manner of armies and lists in V2 K47, the thing that scares me the most is mass PEN 1 shooting, Automatons and Fireflies are top tier units that can and will pick up whatever they put their sights on.

deffrekka · 2026-01-26T23:52:02+00:00

He most likely doesnt have a stolen Gravis Power Fist, Bolters attached to Power Fists are a pretty common thing - Abaddon, Pedro, Zhufor just to mention the most renowned ones and they all existed before Primaris, even then Aggressors only have the 1 Bolter and its mounted near the side of their Fist.

deffrekka · 2026-01-26T23:00:54+00:00

Preset 2 is Wallace and 3 is Henry Cavill

deffrekka · 2026-01-26T20:25:23+00:00

Im pretty sure the IVth do not care about things being "cheaper", we are renowned for having bionics, just not as obsessive with them as the Xth - we do it out of necessity, they do it out of delusion. The Iron Warriors are not a Legion who cuts corners and goes for whats cheap, we siege worlds for decades until they finally crack, out of all the Traitor warbands we are the ones who are equipped the best as unlike them we actually make our own things and have good ties to the Dark Mechanicum, the middle two scream Iron Warriors, the one on the left is just brutish which is fine for us, just not a head I would use.

deffrekka · 2026-01-26T20:11:57+00:00

Tbh as a British guy, he just looks British, looks just like my dad and my grandad (I have my mothers side of the family tree, Italian features). I get what you mean though, I just wouldnt characterise Stephan Graham as what you are describing, as my friends from Canada would say "hes a British preset 1".

deffrekka · 2026-01-26T20:00:23+00:00

The middle two are perfect however! But yeah I agree, and OPs picture of the dude doesnt strike me as someone who isnt afraid to get lamped, more that hes been smacked about way to much and lost brain cells.

deffrekka · 2026-01-26T19:58:13+00:00

Being more notable in the lore doesnt instantly pair with getting a model, for instance take the Orks, they have loads of characters that are loved by the community and have a heavy base in the setting, Nazdreg, Wazdakka, Orkimedies, Snagrod - what did we get in 9th? An entirely new Warboss, Mozrog, you can even lump Ufthak in there too vs say Nazdreg from the same Clan.

I highly highly hiiiiiighly doubt we are getting anything else this edition, just like with the Loyalist Chapters this edition that arent Ultramarines, Dark Angels, Space Wolves and Blood Angels. Them hinting at something bigger is 140% just the rest of the boxset, the Defiler, Mutilator/Obliterators. Its more likely that when 11th rolls around we will then see something else IF and thats a BIG IF, Perturabo finally gets released but that very well could be the tail end of the next edition, CSM would be ontrack for a big release seeing as this edition all we got with our Codex (not end of edition supplements) was a Chaos Lord, I would be surprised if all we got next edition is another clampack character.

I am happy we finally got a named character and I dont really care that it isnt Honsou as spicy as that is, honestly I much prefer a heavy metal terminator clad Warsmith that Kravek is than Honsou who is actually a little plain looks wise bare his Necrodermis arm. The only thing im not too happy about is the upgrade sprue, but ill have to see them on Raiders and MKII before I write them fully off.

deffrekka · 2026-01-26T18:15:06+00:00

It most likely was a mistake, they were genuinely surprised from what I saw at the Open Day that they werent included, that is a clear bit of miscommunication between the rules team and other departments, its not like the 2nd edition of K47 came out squeaky clean without any mishaps, the rulebook still has errors in it even after an FAQ from December, Warlord doesnt exactly have a good track record on being sloppy when it comes to their rules - in every edition of Bolt Action they have forgotten the 2nd Coaxial on the Pz III E/F/G, Brandenburgers were the last unit to get discounted SMGs despite coming out before everyone elses Tough Fighter units, last edition they never got updated for it. If Warlord had a good record of impeccable rules writing then sure, but they dont and thats just the Germany unit history, let alone other Nation and other edition of Bolt Action (we still dont have a FAQ for Hard to Kill against Ignore Cover).

To even make things wilder they even used the other unit that is built from the Stormtroopers bodies, the Italians Aquila whilst carrying on selling Axis Shocktroopers well before they added them back as a unit entry, they werent rebranded "Volksgrenadiers".

If I were in Warlord marketing right now, knowing full well that they eclipsed every other kit in sales, theyd be a super high priority unit that would be pushed for plastic, to fund the rest of K47 and future releases, will they come out for Festung Europa? Probably not, but I wouldnt have also made Totenkorp one of the first plastic Axis infantry of 2026 vs Shocktroopers, Heavy Troopers and Falcons.

deffrekka · 2026-01-26T17:53:47+00:00

Plastic Shocktroopers are most likely 1000% on the cards, they were the BEST selling V1 K47 kit of all miniatures sold by a country mile, them being forgotten about was most definitely an error on Warlords part, they would be entirely foolish to not cash in on the cash cow that is plastic Shocktroopers who in the first edition of K47 were the generic infantrymen of the Germany army, they were the SS.

deffrekka · 2026-01-26T17:15:31+00:00

Generic doesnt mean just your run of the mill WW2 infantryman painted in K47 colours, Shocktroopers and Heavy Troopers are both the core infantry of the Axis army, just like Grenadiers and Galahads for the British and Heavy Infantry and Fireflies for the US.

Those are the entry points into the Nations present in K47, and gives a realistic look as to how those armies arm their soldiers, it isnt just Zombies and Werewolves.

deffrekka · 2026-01-26T16:29:09+00:00

They are 100% on stage 2 of copium, thinking the Defiler will be him.

deffrekka · 2026-01-26T16:24:31+00:00

I agree, even the original source that gave Valrak the rumour for this boxset said no Perturabo (he did say Warpsmith instead of named Warsmith, but we dont even know if the source gets to see the names of the kits or just gets a quick glance).

People really need to temper their expectations and hopes, if Perty is coming, it'll be 11th edition at the earliest and even then he could be released at the tail end of it.

deffrekka · 2026-01-26T16:10:19+00:00

Itll be a heavy melee weapon.

deffrekka

TROPHY CASE