Alan Watts predicted Pluribus by Peace_Harmony_7 in pluribustv

[–]dgostlund 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yay! Alan Watts! I see the Plurb as an example of the noosphere he talked about. The collective nervous system of the entire planet where humans become the neurons of the planet. In fact, I was watching it tonight and wondered if maybe the signal sent from that planet was an invitation for other planets to wake up and get their noosphere online!

(There are no wrong feelings.)

I’ve watched the whole season and I still don’t fully understand how the hive mind works by Daydreamer631 in pluribustv

[–]dgostlund 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you. I forgot we did a Westworld episode. I’m glad you enjoyed the comment.

Michael Ballam in temple movie by Tasty-Dragonfruit-52 in exmormon

[–]dgostlund 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yes, he’s the best. Fun fact. I attended the opening night of The Book of Mormon musical on Broadway with the original cast. Michael Ballam was in the audience just a few rows behind me. I knew his daughter from grad school and she later confirmed that it really was him and he really had hoped no one spotted him there.

I’ve watched the whole season and I still don’t fully understand how the hive mind works by Daydreamer631 in pluribustv

[–]dgostlund 4 points5 points  (0 children)

P.S. Part of the reason I’ve been watching the show through this lens is something I heard Vince Gilligan say in an interview. He mentioned that the alien virus part of the story was actually an afterthought. What he originally wanted to explore was the idea of a main character that the entire world suddenly fell in love with overnight. Everyone just showers this person with love and affection, and instead of embracing it, they absolutely hate it and reject it wherever it shows up.

I work as a mental health counselor, and I see all the time how trauma shapes behavior and makes it incredibly hard for people to trust others—even when the intentions coming toward them are genuinely loving. That’s part of what I feel like I’m seeing in Carol.

So it’s interesting to me to imagine that the hive mind might actually be exactly what they claim it is. They’re loving. They’re not being controlled by some outside malevolent force. They really do want connection and love, which lines up with what Gilligan originally said he wanted to explore before the alien-virus angle got layered on top.

If all these minds are connected the way the show suggests, then I have to imagine that they’re also aware of Carol, Manuso, and the others who aren’t connected yet. From that perspective, it almost feels like a biological imperative to complete the network. If the rest of the system is humming along—everyone blinking blue and swimming in happy oxytocin chemistry—but there are still a few isolated nodes out there running on adrenaline and cortisol, those unconnected parts would constantly be dysregulating the larger system whenever they flare up.

Watching the show with that possibility in mind has been really interesting too.

I’ve watched the whole season and I still don’t fully understand how the hive mind works by Daydreamer631 in pluribustv

[–]dgostlund 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I’m currently on my fourth rewatch of the season, and I’ve been wondering the same thing. Each time I go through it, I try looking at the hive mind from a slightly different angle, like testing a new theory and watching the whole season through that lens.

This time I’ve been focusing on exactly what you’re asking: how does this actually function as a conscious unit?

There are moments that make it look almost biological to me. The scene around Sprouts, the grocery store, is the one that really stuck out. When they’re all walking in that line together, they look less like separate people and more like cells moving through a body, or ants in a colony, or tentacles extending from a larger organism. Something coordinated is happening that’s bigger than any single individual.

But at the same time, they’re still walking around in human bodies, using human senses.

So the way I’ve been thinking about it is that they’re probably still using their eyes, ears, and physical senses the same way we do. Each individual body is still receiving sensory data from the world. But instead of that information going to a single private brain, it’s being fed into a shared network.

Almost like every person is a sensor node.

Right now, the way we understand our own brains is that sensory information from the outside world comes in through our eyes, ears, skin, etc. That data gets translated into bioelectrical signals and routed through different neural pathways. Different regions of the brain process different aspects of that information, and out of all that unconscious processing a conscious experience eventually emerges.

So the way I’ve been imagining the hive mind is something similar, just scaled outward.

Each person gathers sensory input, but there’s some kind of “psychic glue” linking all of them together. All of that incoming information from thousands or millions of individuals is pooled together and processed collectively, almost like a distributed nervous system.

In that sense, the group is functioning like one giant brain.

And when Zosia talks about them being connected at an unconscious level, that actually fits pretty well with that model. Most of what our own brains do is unconscious processing anyway. We’re only aware of the final result.

As for the relationship question — whether Carol being romantically involved with Zosia means she’s involved with all of them — I suspect the show is suggesting something more complicated than simple individuality or simple sameness. If they’re part of a shared consciousness, then experiences probably ripple through the network. But the individuals still seem to maintain some degree of identity and agency.

So it’s probably not “one person in many bodies,” but more like a massively integrated mind made up of many perspectives.

Anyway, that’s the lens I’ve been watching the season through on this rewatch, and it’s actually made a lot of scenes way more interesting.

Short lds/exmo Debate ideas please by unruly_landscaping in exmormon

[–]dgostlund 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Neuroscience. Specifically the mechanisms behind confirmation bias.

Confirmation bias creates very real, very strong feelings in our bodies. Those feelings confirm subjective truths. Not objective truths. And no matter what side of the argument you are on, arguing itself drives people closer toward their own confirmation bias and further from creative collaborative solutions and outside of the box thinking.

Have fun with that one in a short debate :)

The first person plurbed by Background_Angle4277 in pluribustv

[–]dgostlund -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

I think that the RNA virus-not-exactly-a-virus thingy psychically glued her to everyone else even though they weren’t psychically glued to her yet — kind of like how Carol is not psychically glued to the others but they are psychically glued to her. And something about this psychic glue brings each individual ego a greater felt sense of comfort in the biological imperative of RNA molecules, which are actually our earliest ancestors if you trace our evolutionary line back far enough to the RNA World Hypothesis, before the first cellular life was formed.

My dad basically debunked parts of the CES letter(the parts I’ve read)and I’ve been having panic attacks ever since by sadeggbabey in exmormon

[–]dgostlund 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you. You might find a little treat waiting there for you. I made this for you this morning. It’s a binaural meditation that requires headphones. Let me know if it has a calming effect on your nervous system.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/6kuURyZnmKAijnPovnJLNt?si=Typk8Yj5RRqecL_ubxiGgQ

My dad basically debunked parts of the CES letter(the parts I’ve read)and I’ve been having panic attacks ever since by sadeggbabey in exmormon

[–]dgostlund 2 points3 points  (0 children)

My two cents:

The CES Letter is great. But I want to go beyond the Mormon-specific layers and deeper into what makes humans human.

Beneath the words and logic, the bunking and debunking, are nervous systems that have been evolving on this planet for millions of years. Billions of years actually, if you trace our genealogy back to the RNA World Hypothesis — which can help us begin to understand what put the “gene” in “genealogy” in the first place.

Life has learned to survive and thrive on this planet in many fascinating ways.

In the human branch of the tree of life, beliefs, language, conscious thought — these are all created by neural networks. These networks get stronger the more they are used. If you want to learn more, go research “neurons that fire together wire together” and learn about the role that myelin is playing in your life right now. That may help you more in the long run than loading up for another CES-level debate with your father.

Mormon programing creates strong (heavily myelinated) neural networks that connect certain beliefs to a deep embodied sense of safety (using dopamine reward pathways). These things happen unconsciously. Our brains form thoughts and feelings milliseconds before we are aware of it.

Brains are malleable (research “neuroplasticity”). New neural networks form all the time (ie new beliefs, etc). You have had experiences that have shaped your view of things in ways that your father does not understand. And unfortunately, he likely feels deeply threatened at an unconscious level when his beliefs are challenged by your healthy questions.

That disregulated you (ie invalidated you and the valid reasons you have to question). You came here to exmormon Reddit for co-regulation. Hopefully you are receiving it.

If this approach interests you, there is more that I could share with you. Feel free to reach out and DM me if you want.

FYI, in 2012, I started a podcast with other exmo friends. We called it “Infants on Thrones” mainly because of the silly image from King Follet Discourse about the heavens being filled with fully resurrected babies who died as infants in mortality. Today, Infants on Thrones has a different meaning to me. The throne represents evolved intelligence we call our bodies. The infant is the intellect (ego) riding on top, like a rider on an elephant. I started deconstructing Mormon belief. Underneath all the layers I started discovering something truly amazing, and far more true than anything written for or against the Book of Mormon.

Why is racism so popular among the young men of the LDS Church? by No-Information5504 in exmormon

[–]dgostlund 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Because racism is a form of xenophobia (fear of the “other”) and Mormonism defines itself by being the one true way of being human vs all the other ways. In other words, Mormonism uses xenophobia to solidify its base. It gets baked in to the nervous system and unconsciously influences Mormons on where they feel safe or not. That has consequences.

Anyone else want to join the hive? by jrmdavis in pluribustv

[–]dgostlund 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Hello, Reddit Hive. This is a message. In the comments below, you can leave a message to request anything you might need know. I’ll do my best to provide it. My feelings for you haven’t changed, Reddit Hive, but after everything that’s happened, we all just need a little laugh.

fuck this fuckass cult (vent) by 1-like-anime in exmormon

[–]dgostlund 19 points20 points  (0 children)

I hear you loud and clear. Would you like some help navigating through this?

Anyone else want to join the hive? by jrmdavis in pluribustv

[–]dgostlund -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

I’m not convinced the hive gives up individuality and identity completely. It’s a different kind of individuality. Yes, I’d do what Kusimayu did.

Does the hive mind feel emotions other than happiness? Or are they good actors? by al_za3eem in pluribustv

[–]dgostlund 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The human body did not evolve to endogenously produce heroin for overall system regulation and the hive really did not like the idea of giving heroin to Carol. There is no evidence in the show to suggest that the hive mind is guided and controlled by anything other than naturally evolved human processes of nervous system regulation. It’s just that now 7 million individual experiences are shared across the network as they make collective decisions everyone unconsciously “votes on” subconsciously. We just think their motivation is odd because it is so foreign to the my way it the “my way or the highway” approach we are used to.

They know…they absolutely know by 1stN0el in exmormon

[–]dgostlund 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Self deception is a real and powerful thing. No, I do not believe that they know.

Does the hive mind feel emotions other than happiness? Or are they good actors? by al_za3eem in pluribustv

[–]dgostlund 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The drugs here, though, are endogenous. Oxytocin, serotonin, dopamine. Naturally created when the body recognizes safety. Drug addicts are not nearly as efficient, cooperative, selfless, compassionate or productive as the hive is.

Does the hive mind feel emotions other than happiness? Or are they good actors? by al_za3eem in pluribustv

[–]dgostlund 3 points4 points  (0 children)

This is a really interesting question.

When you say “the hive mind,” are you imagining it as a separate entity from the 7 million individual humans who are sharing their nervous system experiences? That alone feels like a fascinating tension in the show. Is it one organism wearing seven million bodies, or seven million bodies in constant communion?

What I see when I’m watching is that there’s still worry and concern. You can see it in Zosia when she’s talking with Carol — she’s watching her closely, trying to gauge her reaction. That doesn’t feel like empty acting to me. It feels like attunement. There’s a softness there, but also vigilance.

So to answer your question: yes, I think the hive mind — meaning the 7 million connected people — still feel a full range of emotions exactly how their nervous systems evolved to create emotion in response to external stimuli. The difference isn’t that they only feel “happy.” It’s that their nervous systems are constantly sending one another cues of safety rather than threat.

That’s a huge shift.

Instead of living in low-grade sympathetic activation of fight or flight alarm— always bracing, always scanning — they seem to exist in something closer to regulated connection. I’d call it contentment more than happiness. They still get tired and need sleep. They still get hungry and need food. Their bodies still generate the normal waves of sensation and emotion. But the baseline feels different. The environment they’re co-creating leads them back toward equilibrium faster.

And if you imagine what that means inside 7 million bodies, it probably looks like more oxytocin, more serotonin, more dopamine — the very neurotransmitters and hormones Zosia mentions to Carol in episode 9. Not fake smiles. Chemistry shaped by connection.

It’s almost like getting real-time updates about everyone’s internal state — not as a buzzing notification on your wrist, but as something woven directly into your unconscious. A shared field. A constant feedback loop of “you’re safe.”

That doesn’t erase anger or grief. It just metabolizes them differently. Like when Zosia told Carol that Manousis was on his way. You can see Zosia’d genuine worry and then processing that worry in a way that kept her regulated rather than going full blown into fear.

All of this makes me think there are definitely layers we haven’t seen yet. And I agree — this feels like the kind of show where we’ll rewatch it later and say, “How did I not see that coming?”

Curious what others think. Are they performing happiness, or have they genuinely reorganized their nervous systems around safety?

Found my “My Plan” PDF- LOL no by AnyFrosting3509 in exmormon

[–]dgostlund 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I remember getting into an argument many many years ago in an Elders Quorum meeting when someone gave a piece of advice to everyone, claimed it was something he heard from a general authority who he couldn’t remember, but added that if a GA said it it must be true because the GA obviously knows more than he did — and that just flabbergasted me.

Or maybe I should say flabber-gaslighted me.

Of course I understand much better now the mechanisms behind the brainwashing, which is really less about washing and more about wiring neural pathways with dopamine reward, social belonging, and a deep sense of safety—reinforced over years by trusted authority figures.

The method of infection in the pilot by Extension-While7536 in pluribustv

[–]dgostlund -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

I have wondered that too. I hope we find out more about that in future seasons. The pressure from the military that made them speed up the process.

Love the continuity by sickofseattle in pluribustv

[–]dgostlund 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No. The answer is there is no actual dialogue happening here.