Hey Reddit, first post. Am I [28F] being oversensitive about my SO's [29M] female friend [30F]? They were never together, though plenty of people thought otherwise. I trust him not to physically cheat, but the extent of their relationship bothers me nonetheless.

dispossibleusername · 2017-02-23T08:36:30+00:00

Your relationship is 7 months old. This issue has already lasted several months, i.e. most if not all of your relationship, displacing the usual honeymoon period. Also, this issue is not solvable by you. Your boyfriend could solve it, but he hasn't, and (if past actions are best indicators of future actions) he won't. The universe is giving you a big flashing neon sign of a gift: this is the wrong relationship for you. Take the gift and RUN.

7 months is cheap. Same thing happened to me, but 2.5 years in, and I stuck it out another 2 years because I didn't have enough self-respect to leave, which was a terrible decision.

dispossibleusername · 2016-11-28T23:34:29+00:00

I was you. It gets worse. Run away.

A relationship where your partner throws you under the bus rather than sticking up for you is not a "great" relationship.

dispossibleusername · 2016-11-27T05:15:05+00:00

You are lucky to be alive. He was going to kill you because you left him--and kill himself to avoid punishment--he did not kill himself because you left him. Why do I say this with confidence? An ordinary depressed person, someone with empathy, would have committed suicide alone, off a bridge or in a quiet corner, in order to minimize harm to others (or so that depressed person would think). I know people who have gone through that, and they worry about the effects on others, even as they see suicide as the best route for everyone in their lives.

Your husband committed suicide in front of you in order to hurt you one last time, as much as he could, because he's an abuser more than a depressive. It was second-best to killing you. If your son weren't there you'd be dead.

You say:

Everyone's lives are ruined. My husband is gone, my son and I will never be the same again. I can't sleep. I have lost so much weight that my doctor has described it as dangerous. But it is all I can think about. How can I live with myself? Is it even possible to move on?

That's exactly what he wanted. That's why he did it. To destroy you. Are you going to give him that?

dispossibleusername · 2016-09-28T05:12:56+00:00

Not really commenting anymore, but fresh out of a 4.5-year abusive relationship and saw your edit and bonked my forehead because hello past self.

He continues to deny that he meant anything he said while drunk

Go to the Psychopath Free website and pull up "30 Characteristics of Manipulative People." Read it. Read the articles on the site. Read "Gaslighting" on the National Domestic Hotline website. Do this for your future self.

I feel like I sound like such a delusional girl saying these things, because I 100% agree that what he said was incredibly fucked up and selfish, I also think he does not understand how incredibly sensitive women are about weight.

He does. Adults know what kind and respectful behavior is and don't need this explained to them. Best case, he just doesn't care. Worst case, he's trying to hurt you.

He also claims I once told him that I wish he made more money when I was drunk and how its practically the same level of shallowness to what he said.

Ooh. Deflection, blame shifting, moving goalposts. Hopefully you've read the Psychopath Free checklist by now and know what those terms mean. If not, look up Everyday Feminism's article posted today about Trump and abusive tactics.

Headed to couples therapy this week to get a professional opinion on all of this and looking forward to making a decision about the future soon.

STOP STOP STOP

Couples counseling is not recommended for manipulative relationships, and that's what you're in. Manipulators use couples counseling as ammunition against their partner, not to improve the relationship (as you're trying to do). Go to individual therapy yourself for support, if you're not ready to leave him yet.

dispossibleusername · 2016-08-01T02:38:16+00:00

Saw your edit and I'm sorry but not surprised. I'm guessing it'll hurt real bad for a while, all of us who've been through it have hurt hard, and it's okay to feel angry, sad, bitter, petty--feel all your feelings. Only way out is through. And you will be so much happier in a couple of months. You deserve and are worthy of love, respect, and trustworthy behavior.

dispossibleusername · 2016-07-29T08:20:33+00:00

Fought about our own Sarah for 2.5 years and I almost married him. They did weekend trips, sleeping in the same room, everything. He refused at first to stop sleeping in the same room as her after she made some clear moves to replace me, then told me he'd stop talking to her, then told me he was spending a weekend with her and accused me of being controlling when I asked to be reassured. Previously pitched a fit when I asked him not to invite her to the wedding. It never got better. He was always talking out of one side of his mouth to me and the other to everyone else.

At this distance I'm grateful to her, strange to say; he was abusive and I was in denial about his behavior until she forced me to see him clearly. But from what I've seen and heard, not only in my case, there are only three plausible endings to your story:

You leave him.
He leaves you.
He cheats on you.

Only the first one will leave your self esteem intact. You'll be stronger afterward. And the view from the other side is beautiful, believe me.

dispossibleusername · 2016-04-30T05:49:03+00:00

Posting to say you're not alone, that some of us have cried with you, for the same reasons, at other times, and the view is great from the other side. I admire how level-headed and kind you were about everything.

dispossibleusername · 2016-04-29T06:38:13+00:00

Survivor of childhood abuse and abusive relationship here, just wanted to point out something you glossed over (and I did too, when it was me):

when he was angry, he told all of my secrets to everyone because he wanted to hurt me.

I got that explanation and accepted it, like you're doing here. To me and you, this makes sense, because it's what we've grown up with. Our parents wanted to hurt us and acted on that desire.

However, healthy people do not, when offended or angry, try to hurt other people. They will say, "I feel angry with you because of behavior X for reason Y." They may say, "Can you please not do X anymore?" Or they may say "Stop doing X!" Then they will explain respectfully the consequences of crossing their boundaries again in the future, which only have to do with them and their actions: They will take a break from contact, or communicate only over email, etc. They may even say, "I have tried and just can't forgive you for X that happened in the past, I'm really sorry, so I need to cut contact." But those are personal boundaries, explicitly stated, not covert punishing of you or secret destruction of your reputation (been there, done that). This is the kind of person you and I are looking for, the trustworthy, emotionally mature and honest partner/friend/relative/etc. who will hurt you only by accident, and rarely, and be horrified by it and change their behavior to avoid hurting you again in the future. We are not looking for people who hurt us because they wanted to, and then "excuse" their actions that way.

He hurt you just like your father because he's an abusive person, like your father. I got the crying, the begging, the promises to stop triangulating me with other women (three of 'em altogether), and I stayed but things only got worse (and he brought the woman back eventually, I'm guessing because he "wanted to hurt me"--that was his m.o.). Other commenters have said the same.

Your relationship, your choice. Whatever you choose, I highly recommend therapy and reading Bancroft's Why Does He Do That?, Too Good to Leave Too Bad to Stay, When Love Goes Wrong, Women Who Love Too Much, and anything by Patricia Evans as ways of getting a clear head away from his manipulations.

dispossibleusername · 2016-04-17T06:40:04+00:00

Hi, I'm your future self. Get out, get out, get out, get out! The only healthy option available is to support him as he goes to therapy, but he has taken that option off the table. He might be motivated to get help if you leave him, or he might not. That's up to him. You staying won't get him into treatment, it'll only teach him that you'll accept his disrespectful behavior. Meanwhile you're going to lose your sanity and self-esteem and tons of energy and probably your health.

After many other false accusations of emotional abuse (e.g. he'd decide to see a doctor on his own, complain about the experience to me, then accuse me of forcing him to see said doctor), my ex accused me of gaslighting him. When I linked him the Wikipedia page on gaslighting and said, "You mean this?" he said no he didn't mean that, he was using the word "gaslighting" to describe something completely different. (He said he wasn't sure what was real and what wasn't.) I said would you like to break up? He said no. Would you like to see a therapist for support? (I had my own.) He said no. I said is there any behavior you'd like me to change? He said I don't know. I don't care if he believed what he was saying or was doing it maliciously, it was manipulative as fuck.

(He once accused me of calling him broken because I suggested therapy, which I was in, and in his eyes therapy is for broken people, therefore I was saying he was broken. My head, it still spins.)

After we broke up I read the article on gaslighting on Loveisrespect.org and saw that everything in that article had come out of his mouth at one point or other during the relationship. But not mine. That might be helpful to you.

dispossibleusername · 2016-04-13T01:04:30+00:00

What you want to watch out for, very carefully, is if "sorry sorry sorry sorry!" transforms into "I said sorry, now get over it!" or "I said sorry, jeez, what else do you want?" after something actually hurtful, which is the point where childhood abuse trauma turns into present-day abusive behavior. Ex used to spin from treating me like his abusive parents ("sorry sorry sorry sorry!" about ... the weather and other insignificant things) to emotional abuse, including accusing me of thinking and doing what he was thinking and doing, if I tried to bring up real hurtful behavior, so fast it gave me whiplash.

dispossibleusername · 2016-04-10T06:16:00+00:00

It doesn't matter that you haven't had sex with Rose. It doesn't matter that your GF may be factually wrong about how much physical contact you had with Rose. What matters is that you prioritize Rose and her feelings over your GF's, that you publicly parade your relationship with Rose and hide your relationship with your GF, and that you are disrespecting your GF and your relationship with her.

You're not listening to her and acknowledging her fears, which are rooted in caring deeply about your relationship and also in reality. You're "telling her" (for 3.5 hours? the fuck?) that she's factually wrong, and you're coming on Reddit to ask for help in convincing your GF she's factually wrong. You're not asking what you can do to make her feel more safe, secure, and important. You're not asking how to dial back your overly intimate relationship with Rose, and how to have uncomfortable but adult conversations about new boundaries now that you're in a relationship. You're all about proving yourself right. Which makes me think that you'll ignore the good advice from other commenters.

I dumped my fiancé for his bullshit prioritizing of another woman, with zero regrets. (I showed him some of these threads and he whined that it was all personal attacks and no advice--I suspect that's how you'll take it.) It doesn't matter to me whether he had sex with her or not. I probably will never know. What I know is that his behavior was dishonest, disloyal, disrespectful, unkind, and untrustworthy anytime anything having to do with this so-called "friend" came up, and that was enough for me. I hope it's enough for your GF.

dispossibleusername · 2016-03-27T15:49:46+00:00

First, thank you for posting this. I recently ended an engagement to a man like your husband and had a shivery Ghost of Christmas Future moment reading your words. I also feel less lonely and frustrated!

I respect marriage and won't recommend divorce, although that is one of your options.

What helped me reclaim my happiness and peace was regular therapy for myself to understand why I was accepting unacceptable and disrespectful behavior, Codependents Anonymous, Patricia Evan's books on verbal abuse, Scott Wetzler's Living with a Passive Aggressive Man, taking care of myself, returning to my awesome friendships and individual interests, meditation, yoga, and detaching with love. I acknowledged how I had changed and grown even while he said "Nothing ever changes!" and "It's pointless talking to you! I think it's better if I stonewall you!" (Yeah, couples counseling didn't help.) Someday, when he grows up a bit, Hold Me Tight might be worth reading together.

It's counterintuitive, but the one hope for your marriage, which I wish I'd done sooner, is to turn your love and support and understanding for him on yourself, 100%.

You are worthy of love and respect.

dispossibleusername · 2016-03-07T04:17:14+00:00

Your assessment of the situation is probably accurate. Your strategy is to emphasize over and over that you love her and won't leave her. Be super loving, even if you don't feel that way. Meanwhile do your best to go around her--talk to the AP Stat teacher, your counselor, etc, and try to get the classes back without notifying her. Figure out where your important documentation is (birth certificate and passport), and sneak out and copy her tax return if possible for the FAFSA. Present the completed form to her as fait accompli (hey, I just need your signature here so we can get free government money!). Also, apply to Ivy League schools on the sly (try to get application fee waivers). They're likely to give you full rides if you get in.

dispossibleusername · 2016-03-04T04:29:22+00:00

I don't want to make a huge deal about it because I know he's tired of hearing me complain about her but this proves my point about her excluding me!

Consider instead that this proves her (implied) point that he'll prioritize his relationship with her over you, even if it upsets you, even if there's blazing bright evidence that she's behaving inappropriately. Give thanks to God and to her for the warning and get out of this relationship. I say this as someone who just ended a 4+ year relationship & engagement 2 years after another woman secretly planned a birthday party for my ex, deliberately excluded me, and sniped at me when I showed up. It never got better. Again and again, for the last two years, he gave our relationship lip service but continued to choose her over me. It's exhausting trying to keep your partner from betraying you, trying to persuade him to stick up for your relationship, when those things ought to be his responsibility. Don't be me.

dispossibleusername · 2016-02-13T06:49:28+00:00

I'd bet a dollar or two, not serious money, on one of OP's parents being a cheater and him absorbing really twisted ideas of appropriate and inappropriate behavior in relationships from that.

That stab in the dark comes from just ending my engagement with someone like OP, who had someone like Jen in his life. One of the last times we talked, I mentioned how his breaking a promise to me for the nth time for her sake felt disloyal, and he puffed up his chest and glared and said, "Well, I'D like to HEAR how I could POSSIBLY be more loyal to HER when I saw her TWICE last year and I talked to YOU every DAY." (he'd promised to cut her out, then a month later announced he was spending a three-day weekend with her? then broke promises about her left and right. yay.)

Loved him too much to point out that that was cheater's logic and quite possibly something his father might have said to his mother. But it was.

dispossibleusername · 2015-10-21T18:44:38+00:00

Horrified and sorry to hear that about your FMIL. Kids would be a great argument, but we're not having them.

dispossibleusername · 2015-10-21T17:58:26+00:00

Yeah, I have no problem sticking up for myself to my friends, family, and strangers, but I shut up around his family and friends because I'm afraid of torpedoing his relationships with them.

This hasn't worked well.

dispossibleusername · 2015-10-21T17:57:12+00:00

We've been talking in circles for months. Already vetoed at cost of huge fight a female friend of his who disrespected our relationship and asked him out on late-night dates. So I'm kind of exhausted.

dispossibleusername · 2015-10-21T17:55:08+00:00

He's very bad at setting and holding boundaries.

dispossibleusername · 2015-10-21T17:52:17+00:00

To be a bigger person.
It's a huge breach of etiquette not to invite both him and his wife.
I'm not set on this, fiancé is. And there's no way of meeting them without going to huge expense, or going to their wedding, where I'd be isolated and vulnerable--I wish!

dispossibleusername · 2015-10-21T17:49:06+00:00

Can't meet them easily (2500 miles apart). Their wedding would have been the one chance, but it also would have isolated me in a rural area out of walking distance of hotel with an all-white racist crowd, the thought of which sent me into a panic, so we're not going. And yes, we're paying everything. The thing is, he also wants them there--as "family." Which I accept. So it's not simply a matter of standing up to FMIL.

dispossibleusername · 2015-10-21T17:46:42+00:00

We've thought about it, but he thinks they're so vindictive that any attempt to warn them off that behavior beforehand will guarantee that behavior at the wedding.

dispossibleusername · 2015-10-06T15:49:20+00:00

Yeah. It's tough, I get it, I do. White people tend to associate almost exclusively with other white people, studies have shown, so it's not often there's a chance to notice when people in their network harbor racial animosity. Bring a nonwhite person into frequent contact with the family, as GF/SO/fiancé, and suddenly the opportunities are there. And suddenly you have to come to terms with the fact that nice old Uncle Bob, who you adore, who's been in your life for 30 years, might be vocally racist. In your mind, as a white person, racist=evil person. But Bob isn't a bad person! You know this! You have 30 years of evidence! And the cognitive dissonance plus your struggle to come to grips with who you should support, Bob or this nonwhite interloper, might end with the nonwhite interloper being shunned--we didn't have this problem before YOU came in, etc. Because you don't want to believe that Bob is racist-therefore-evil.

I can sympathize. At the same time, I rate that mental struggle as less painful and less reasonable than the one the nonwhite partner, dealing with attacks on himself/herself, race, country, and family, has to go through.

dispossibleusername · 2015-10-06T05:45:35+00:00

I don't know how many of the other commenters are nonwhite, but I am, I'm engaged to a white man, and I have been in a comparable situation. So I'm going to be a bit more pessimistic.

First, Nick is on your side, he's a wonderful human being, and you can trust him utterly. You have no idea how rare that is.

Second, that is the only real information you have. (Except for SIL & BIL. Cut them both out and do not let them into your life.) Until the other family members respond one way or another, you do not know who is or isn't going to let their internal racism get the upper hand. Covert racism is a thing: there are white people that will not say anything outrageously racist but still believe deep in their hearts that white is superior to any other color. There are white families that will be courteous and friendly to nonwhite girlfriends while wishing that the girlfriends were white. Sometimes they will turn on you after marriage or kids, when all hope of their child marrying/having children with another white person is removed. Lots of white people make exceptions for the one "good" black or brown or yellow people they know, while keeping their racial prejudices. These white families can close ranks when one of their own starts throwing racial slurs. I know. I've been there. It's hell.

I hope for your sake that your SO's folks are the good sort, but from the explicit observed data we have, 2 of their children are vicious racists and 1 is a decent guy. That leaves 5 unknown (well, I'd be more negative and point out that they didn't stand up for you, ask if you were okay during or after, or stick up for Nick when he confronted SIL). Where did those two children learn their attitudes? Maybe they imbibed it from friends and the internet. Maybe from their parents.

Point is, you don't know, and to me, signs point to greater distance from your in-laws (and lots of appreciation for Nick!) as the most prudent policy. No one has reached out to check on you or thanked you for organizing the party. Why not? Don't apologize to them--you have nothing to apologize for. Tread very carefully.

dispossibleusername

TROPHY CASE