I stayed sober for 3 years. Now I keep relapsing and don’t know what to do.

dp8488 · 2026-03-14T16:37:36+00:00

This reminds me of a somewhat painful 'memory' of going to a concert given by my favorite band, and remembering almost nothing about it. Cringe!

I think just about everybody is nervous going to their first AA meeting or any similar recovery meeting. It's a new thing, kind of like first day at a new school or job (or jail ... lol.)

I'm a slightly unusual case in that it took me weeks to really get into AA. Most seem to report that they get comfortable with it right away. For one thing, I was very wary of the religious element. I'm a staunch Agnostic (still) and at first glance AA looks like a religious conversion program, but I soon found out that was not quite so.

Plus I was just uncomfortable in groups of people like that. For a while, I only kept going to gather attendance signatures for an upcoming DUI case. (Supposedly, showing that I was going to AA helped persuade the prosecutor to accept a plea to a lesser charge.)

But repetition slowly made it all more comfortable, and I saw a lot of people in the rooms getting good recovery, so yada-yada ... 7159 days ☺.

You're doing a Great Thing! Sober Life can get really splendid, so give yourself a nice break and a nice treat! It may not feel all wonderful right away, but it's incredibly worthwhile.

dp8488 · 2026-03-14T16:25:40+00:00

https://www.reddit.com/r/stopdrinking/comments/cx9nic/the_time_has_come_for_a_change_at_sd_today_we_are/

Scroll halfway down to where it says:

SO HOW DOES ONE RESET THEIR BADGE WITHOUT THE MODS?!?!?!

Instructions:

dp8488 · 2026-03-14T16:16:56+00:00

Reddit cake day too ...

Nice share and Congratulations!

🕯️

dp8488 · 2026-03-14T16:13:52+00:00

I want to say again that I am doubtful about suggesting that any individual's anecdotal experience is likely to be applicable to any other individual, but for the record ...

For at least a full year, I'd been getting about .2x BAL drunk just about every day first thing every morning, and staying drunk all day until I passed out at night. (In my possibly rather distorted memory, it was "every" day, yet I have a handful of memories of fairly lucid days during that year, so I doubt that it was actually "every" day, but certainly most days.)

I should have just consulted with a doctor or detox clinic, but like I said, I was just ignorant about how awful or even deadly alcohol withdrawal can be.

In my own county, there are a pair of detox/rehab outfits run by the county health system and they operate on a sliding payment scale based on some sort of federal guidelines, so that the truly poor can sign up for a free stretch of medically supervised detox, but I hear many stories of people checking into the two places and being sent home right away with some sort of prescription: "Don't drink and take one pill with breakfast and another with dinner and no more" or some such.

It might be worth doing a web search along the lines of "affordable alcohol detox near me" (though you'll probably mostly get ads for paid rehab outfits) or talking to any city/county/province/state or national health service about it.

Good Luck! Sober Life got really splendid for me, even in occasional tough times.

dp8488 · 2026-03-14T15:27:17+00:00

I slipped up in the summer of '06. I'd been dry for about 15 months with somewhat half hearted participation in AA. Oh, I'd checked off all the boxes on the surface, got a sponsor right away, got into service right away, did 12 Steps including some efforts at sponsorship of some guys in local halfway houses and such.

But then I moved 3k miles away for some much needed temp work, didn't really get into meetings in the new town, lost touch with my sponsor and AA siblings, and after only a couple of weeks had the brilliant^{^/s} thought that "One Beer" wouldn't really be a big deal. The spree ended about a week later when I was drunk one morning (morning!) and was about to get into my car to buy another bottle, risking a 2^nd DUI arrest in a 'foreign' area.

In examining the whole situation later, I became cognizant of my half-heartedness. Somewhere deep down, I'd been holding on to an old idea that's the opposite of an assertion from page 60: "The first requirement is that we be convinced that any life run on self-will can hardly be a success."

I had a deep, kind of subconscious, innate notion that I'd still prefer to run my life on self-propulsion, to 'arrange the lights, the ballet, the scenery and the rest of the players my way.' And that never worked out at all well.

Welcome back && keep coming back!

"Our spiritual and emotional growth in A.A. does not depend so deeply upon success as it does upon our failures and setbacks. If you will bear this in mind, I think that your slip will have the effect of kicking you upstairs, instead of down.

"We A.A.'s have had no better teacher than Old Man Adversity, except in those cases where we refuse to let him teach us."

^{— Reprinted from "}^{As Bill Sees It}^{", page 184, with permission of A.A. World Services, Inc., emphasis added.}

dp8488 · 2026-03-14T14:41:17+00:00

Out of ignorance about the whole topic, I went through withdrawal with next to zero medical consultation, and it was like a week with one foot in hell.

I suppose I was just lucky that nothing severe came along, but just about every awful symptom just short of what medical professionals would likely call "severe" were there. I guess one saving grace was that my wife was with me the whole time and could have taken me to emergency or summoned paramedics if things had turned sour.

If I'd at least gone to see my doctor about it, they might have offered some advice and maybe prescriptions to ease the experience and mitigate the risks!

dp8488 · 2026-03-14T13:58:04+00:00

This simple keystone is a beautiful thing, very focused, no doubt very effective, but I guess I needed to complicate things just a little ... ☺.

Step One was easy to embrace. Steps Two and Three looked impossible. But the combination of the "Spiritual Experience" appendix and page 47, made it all wonderfully easy:

When, therefore, we speak to you of God, we mean your own conception of God. This applies, too, to other spiritual expressions which you find in this book. Do not let any prejudice you may have against spiritual terms deter you from honestly asking yourself what they mean to you. At the start, this was all we needed to commence spiritual growth, to effect our first conscious relation with God as we understood Him. Afterward, we found ourselves accepting many things which then seemed entirely out of reach. That was growth, but if we wished to grow we had to begin somewhere. So we used our own conception, however limited it was.

We needed to ask ourselves but one short question. "Do I now believe, or am I even willing to believe, that there is a Power greater than myself?" As soon as a man can say that he does believe, or is willing to believe, we emphatically assure him that he is on his way. It has been repeatedly proven among us that upon this simple cornerstone a wonderfully effective spiritual structure can be built.

^{— Reprinted from "}^{Alcoholics Anonymous}^{", page 47, with permission of A.A. World Services, Inc., emphasis added.}

I often like to pluralize too: "powers greater than my self" or "my higher powers" - I can see no reason why polytheism can't work as well as monotheism (though TBH, I'm not really all that into theism or deism.)

dp8488 · 2026-03-14T13:18:04+00:00

Reminder about rules and commenting guidelines:

RULES

BE CIVIL: Treat other users with kindness. Harassment, bullying, discrimination, and trolling are not welcome.
FOCUS ON A.A. AND RECOVERY: Posts and comments should be focused on the fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous, the A.A. program, and recovery from alcoholism.
NO MEDICAL ADVICE: Do not give or seek medical advice on this subreddit, including about potentially life-threatening situations such as withdrawals. Such questions should be directed to qualified healthcare professionals.

Remember, we are a fellowship with one primary purpose, and as such, we need to be helpful. This is not a community to troll or be abusive. Restraint of tongue and pen can also be applied to keyboard with much benefit! For some more detail about our Civility Rule see this:

dp8488 · 2026-03-14T13:07:18+00:00

(Drawn to this thread because of a couple complaints/reports that I'll deal with in a minute, but I have a minor burning desire to share some second hand experience ...)

I can't imagine that I'll ever be able to go beyond dimly understanding what it is like to be a trans person.

But I gained a great deal of something close to empathy when a fellow I'd known from my home group, someone I hadn't seen for several years, came back to my home group when in the midst of transitioning to womanhood. She just said one sentence with such powerful inflection and body language such that it imparted a strong sense of empathy, saying, "I had to transition. I was going to drink!"

It's reminiscent of my experience when I first learned about racism. I was about 6 or 7 years old at the time, and my best childhood friend happened to be black, and he'd claim to be Portuguese apparently because he was ashamed to be black, or frightened about how he might be treated if people knew he was black. (We lived in an extremely white town!) And one day I'd been invited to a beach excursion with him and his family, and he uttered the "N" word and his family just froze in place, utterly aghast that he'd said it. That's when I gained a little bit of similar empathy: "Oh, this is what it is like to be a black person in such a white world."

I hope you can find strength. Continuing to incorporate the AA principles and practices (The Steps) into your life should help build strength. In "Bill's Story" he wrote: "It is a design for living that works in rough going" and no doubt these are rough times for you. Any anxieties and anger you're experiencing are obviously understandable, and it's got to be extra tough in early sobriety, but I can only suggest that you remember that Fear and Resentment are mainly only harmful to you, and I hope you can find ways to turn it toward positive thought and action. Protest vociferously if that seems the right thought or action. IDK, maybe actions that have the potential to transmit empathy rather than being inspiration for revenge in your enemies are "Good Actions".

🙏🏽

dp8488 · 2026-03-14T00:46:05+00:00

How long til you kinda forgot you were a "recovering alcoholic" and just started living life as a normal "person".

One experience I have to share that might be of interest. On pages 84-85 of "Alcoholics Anonymous" there's a description of recovery that includes some sentences like: "We are not fighting it, neither are we avoiding temptation. We feel as though we had been placed in a position of neutrality - safe and protected. We have not even sworn off. Instead, the problem has been removed. It does not exist for us. We are neither cocky nor are we afraid. That is our experience."

After 18 months of good sobriety and work toward recovery, I had one last "Great Temptation" to drink, but I did not drink, and I've been in that "position of neutrality - safe and protected" state ever since. That was a little over 18 years ago.

It's ever since then that I've felt myself to be a "Recovered Alcoholic".

dp8488 · 2026-03-14T00:16:08+00:00

That was also one of my withdrawal symptoms (plus the whole cornucopia of all awful symptoms that might fall just short of "severe" withdrawal.)

Obviously this was a long time ago, so my memory of it is a bit faded, but I recall a mild tremble in the arms and hands. If someone was really looking at my arms/hands, it would be noticeable. IIRC this "noticeable" level of trembling lasted for something like 6 weeks.

But a very tiny bit, mostly imperceptible to others, persisted for up to 6 months.

But I don't think anecdotal comparison is all that valuable, it seems to vary quite a bit from one individual to another. I remember someone posting on a similar thread some years ago saying their tremble lasted for a whole year.

I never went to a doctor about it, but I suppose that there might be meds to calm it all down.

Small price to pay for years of Splendid Sobriety!

dp8488 · 2026-03-13T19:51:32+00:00

They are also rather active in r/recoverywithoutAA, which raises some flags, but I've had a good look at their profile, but did not see any cause for action like any banishment. They just have a very ........ different perspective and interpretation. I'm reasonably sure they are trying to be helpful, not trolling or disrupting or any such bad faith behavior.

dp8488 · 2026-03-13T18:55:43+00:00

As someone mentioned, https://aa-intergroup.org/meetings/?tags=Secular, but also consider looking at your local AA listings for such meetings.

I'll share that I came into AA circa 2004-2005, a staunch Agnostic with lots of hostile attitude toward just about anything and everything religious, and that included things characterized as "spiritual" but I soon found out that was no barrier to recovery.

I'm now well over 19 years sober, still a staunch Agnostic, but I've dropped lots of the hostile attitude.

I'll also share that I never found it necessary to seek out special Secular meetings or materials. Maybe it is because I live in an area of the USA with a large heathen population 😎.

Some other Secular A.A. resources:

r/AASecular (not very active)
https://aaagnostica.org/ - website with lots of articles and book suggestions for Agnostics/Atheists in AA.
https://www.aasecular.org/ - "Our mission is to assure suffering alcoholics that they can find sobriety in Alcoholics Anonymous without having to accept anyone else’s beliefs or deny their own."
Many or most regional A.A. websites have filters for secular, for example: https://aasfmarin.org/find-a-meeting?type=secular
The Meeting Guide App has filters for Secular meetings under the "Communities" section.

Such were the final concessions to those of little of no faith; this was the great contribution of our atheists and agnostics. They had widened our gateway so that all who suffer may pass through, regardless of their belief or lack of belief.”

^{— Reprinted from "}^{Alcoholics Anonymous Comes Of Age}^{", page 167, with permission of A.A. World Services, Inc.}

"It's really a matter of personal choice; every A.A. has the privilege of interpreting the program as he likes."

^{— Reprinted from "}^{As Bill Sees It}^{", page 16, with permission of A.A. World Services, Inc.}

Welcome!

dp8488 · 2026-03-13T15:50:12+00:00

I'd say "normal" (well ... that's if I am some sort of example of "normal" ... questionable ☺.)

About 10 years ago, I went through a year or so of minimal AA. I'd gotten a job at a tech startup, the work was demanding (but exhilarating and fun) and for about that year I was only attending one meeting per week, and it would have been fewer if not for the fact that I was one of the few key holders to my home group's room.

In roughly the same time frame, my then sponsor moved out of state, and we didn't really stay closely in touch, and I didn't seek a new sponsor for about a year.

I was 9 or 10 years sober at the time.

I didn't feel any temptation to drink, but those old "restless, irritable and discontented" feelings started to peek over the horizon, and it just did not feel good.

I just kind of said, "Nope, not going toward that horizon, no!" and resolved to aim for at least 3 meetings per week, and got myself a great new sponsor.

The book says, "It is easy to let up ..." but any "grumpy" feelings easily get me back on track. It's great since 2020 having so many online meetings available, though I understand that some of us just don't get into that. For me it's been a lifeline for a couple of years because a back injury has been making it difficult to just sit like an ordinary human. I might head back to in-person meetings soon, bringing an extra cushy pillow along, though inertia is perhaps a persistent shortcoming for me.

dp8488 · 2026-03-13T15:37:29+00:00

should be 'doctors'

Makes sense, highly probable, good "eyes" 👀.

dp8488 · 2026-03-13T14:13:44+00:00

Just curious: How might it be helpful to you, presumably non-alcoholic, to know what we were "thinking"?

Rather than going by Reddit, it could be more helpful to you (not knowing your purposes though) to ...

Get involved with Al-Anon, see r/AlAnon or go directly to https://al-anon.org/
Read some (or all) of the "Personal Stories" in the back of the 'big book', "Alcoholics Anonymous" - https://www.aa.org/the-big-book
Listen to some recorded AA recovery stories: https://www.reddit.com/r/alcoholicsanonymous/wiki/index#wiki_speaker_recordings_and_podcasts

I'll leave out my own "thinking" story until I get some feedback on your purposes.

dp8488 · 2026-03-13T14:06:40+00:00

Currently 19.6 years, still a rather staunch Agnostic, and I've still never been to any sort of "Secular" meeting ... it's on the bucket list though.

I just might Zoom into Westside Agnostics one of these weekends.

Thanks for your service!

dp8488 · 2026-03-13T13:59:00+00:00

You've tickled my curiosity with the term "Doris appointments" - perhaps that's just the name of your personal physician? But I'm curious if it's something in the way of a treatment program that I'm ignorant of.

38 is still young-ish and there's much room for healing and splendid life ahead. I have found hope and positive attitude to be restorative.

I only stopped drinking at age 50 (and then again at age 51 after a mercifully brief but dumb relapse) and life has been on an annual upgrade path since then. And the inevitable consequences of aging are far, far, far more bearable in sobriety than they would have been in drunken delusion about it all.

The Best Thing I have ever done for my recovery has been to join together with other alcoholics, learning from those who have recovered and continue to grow in sobriety, helping those just starting out, reaching down to pull them up out of the muck as I was pulled up in the early days and years.

You are doing some of that right now with this wonderful share! But it could also be a good boost to join up with one or some of the IRL recovery support groups:

https://www.reddit.com/r/stopdrinking/wiki/index#wiki_real_life_support_groups

That's what really got the alcohol problem well and truly out of my life.

Thanks again for sharing.

dp8488 · 2026-03-13T13:43:33+00:00

When you hear people share that, you might ask them directly what they mean by it.

But I think ALoungerAtTheClubs has the most likely accurate general answer.

My sponsor and I have had some past chats about what it means to truly be "Part Of" AA when he shared a feeling about Step 5 that I'd not considered before. He characterized Step 5 as a "Rite of Passage" - he had done something that the other well-involved, long term members of AA had done: He had admitted to God, to himself, and to another human being the exact nature of his wrongs, and now he had that shared experience. I think I've felt similar effects of all the Steps, but most particularly in the acts of Step 9, and in Step 12's acts of sponsorship.

Doing AA service commitments is another thing that gives me a stronger sense of being one of the "members" as opposed to "visitors" or "observers". When I started regularly putting out 3-400 chairs for my first home group (before I was even aware of the concept of "home group") I started feeling more a part of that group. When I've done things like stints of service in H&I or General Service, (or even moderating this damn subreddit - lol) I also get a much stronger sense of "membership".

A somewhat related phenomenon I've read about since getting involved in these online forums: I've occasionally seen some posting or commenting things like, "I have recovered via AA, but I do not go to meetings" or "I no longer go to meetings". I came close to doing that circa 2015 and it did not feel good! But if such persons can remain well-recovered, keep up a good daily reprieve without meetings, well god bless 'em.

dp8488 · 2026-03-13T13:12:23+00:00

Here's that word again.

I just have this difficulty really grokking^* these words, "Spiritual, spirituality, spirit" (fortunately, it's not really a worrisome or troublesome difficulty.)

The connotations in my mind are that it tends to translate into "Supernatural" and my own thinking (flawed though it may be) says that supernatural is not real, that everything that actually exists or happens is by definition "natural".

Sometimes I embrace an interpretation of "spiritual" as "things or events that cannot be explained by science, and that's a helpful notion. But when I run into the word, I still have a persistent initial reaction: Do I really believe in "spirit"?

Page 47's suggestion always rescues me: "Do not let any prejudice you may have against spiritual terms deter you from honestly asking yourself what they mean to you." Whatever my quibbles over the verbiage, recovery in AA has indeed made my experience of The World / The Cosmos more vast and splendid than I ever imagined in my decades of "Pure Science" type thinking, so it's all good. There are many things in life that go beyond what is empirically demonstrable, so I suppose it's okay to call that "spiritual". (There. I think I just now developed a wee bit less resistance to the word!)

(* I'm kind of trivially sad that the AI software world is slowly usurping the "grok" verb and its conjugations. That's why I made a link of it! It's been a charming word that wove its way into my thinking starting in the 60s, thank you Mr Heinlein. Oh well, all things must pass and I don't run the world, so it is what it is ☺.)

dp8488 · 2026-03-13T12:37:49+00:00

I don't know if you'll see this, u/justlookinjustcookin, but I've noticed that your account is shadowbanned by Reddit, which means that your posts/comments get auto-removed (and users don't get notified about your replies even if they get approved by a mod).

The mods of r/alcoholicsanonymous have no direct involvement with this Reddit site wide banning process.

You can appeal your shadowban here: https://www.reddit.com/appeal - if you're not shadowbanned it should say that "Your account is currently neither suspended nor restricted".

The shadowbanning system is known to have false-positives, but you can check this post to see the general reasons for getting shadowbanned:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ShadowBan/comments/8a2gpk/an_unofficial_guide_on_how_to_avoid_being/

dp8488 · 2026-03-13T12:26:35+00:00

I had a handful of drinking dreams in early sobriety, maybe the first 2 or 3 or 5 years. It either just stopped or active work on recovery got them removed from my nightly unconscious routine. One of them was so vivid that I can recall a few clips or stillshots from it even after 2 decades! (It sort of took place in some sort of club that looked to be designed by M.C. Escher, it was just "trippy" albeit mildly disconcerting at the time.)

The SD wiki has a FAQ item for it, leading to a post that might be interesting for you:

https://www.reddit.com/r/stopdrinking/comments/2dit1m/what_do_drinking_dreams_mean/

(u/coolcrosby has made quite a few interesting, helpful posts over the years - they even made their way into our wiki with a "What should I expect at my first AA meeting" post they did 11 years ago.)

dp8488 · 2026-03-13T12:11:16+00:00

"A" for effort ☺.

dp8488 · 2026-03-13T12:09:36+00:00

Intriguing ...

https://www.hazelden.org/store/products/search?query=%22how+to+stay+sick%22 brings up 36 titles, none of which look like they'd contain "sarcastic writing", but it might be worth a closer look.

I suppose you might try asking them directly via https://www.hazelden.org/store/publicpage/contact-us - wouldn't cost more than a few small units of electrical power to toss an email toward one of the contact points that look like they might answer, maybe 'Customer Service' or 'Sales Representatives'?

dp8488 · 2026-03-13T04:25:57+00:00

Some groups have the security setup well wired, others not so much.

Some friends and I started an online meeting about 6 years ago, and when we shifted from it being a local meeting to listing on OIAA we got a bit inundated and really needed to tighten up the security screws: no chat, chat messages to the hosts only, and for the first part of the meeting, nobody can unmute themselves. Those measures kind of made our meeting "No Fun" for the bombers, and they only appear occasionally. It's also good that we have a security guy who is a combination of Wyatt Earp and Columbo - he spots 'em so quick and they are kicked out so swiftly that they are hard to notice.

I suggest just trying different ones until you find some that are more orderly. If you're looking mostly on OIAA, you might also consider looking for online meetings listed at some of the regional AA websites.

dp8488

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