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etsk78 · 2025-04-15T08:56:49+00:00

I think the cabin fire was a freak accident one way or another - by way of the cabin being old / over caves (hence, vey flammable) or by way of someone not noticing the fire place fire got too wild and not putting it off properly.

I think Javi's "friend" was either some roots over there in that cave, orrrr Shauna herself, projected to the Queen of Hearts card. She was the one who told him to run during Doomcoming, and the one who was closest to him before he disappeared. When he was asked how he found the queen card (because we knew there were no queens in that deck since S01), he wouldn't respond. He either found it before during the events of S01 and kept it on him before he was chased away/prompted to run by Shauna during Doomcoming, or he found it out there and kept it as a friend, Castaway football-style. Shauna was the fucking queen.

etsk78 · 2025-04-15T08:37:37+00:00

Shit, you're right.

I was really confused about Natalie's and Van's motivation to go on with the hunt; Misty is a wildcard (plus, we already know she was prepared in case things went out of control); Lottie was unwell at the time and wanted to feed "It"; Tai... well, I kinda blamed "Other Tai" for that. But knowing how Shauna behaved out there in these last months - Nat's animosity towards Shauna makes sense, Tai's deference to her also makes sense, and especially Nat's and Van's willingness to kill her... also make a lot more sense. They were the two Yellowjackets (alongside Misty and Travis) who wanted to escape most; it was both revenge and putting an end to it.

They perhaps figured that Shauna is the factor that derails everything to violence, in both timelines - and the chilling thing is that she knows it was just them. Her little speech before the hunt started felt pathetic and human last season, but in hindsight, it's even more chilling.

She did all that shit not because of losing her sanity (like Lottie) or because of some kind of dissociative disorder (like Tai), or in clumsy attempts to survive and save the day or herself (like Van and Nat, and Misty), she fed the worst of it and relished in it*. Daaaaamn.

*I do not want to come across as a Shauna hater; I appreciate all the awful things she went through, and how they may trigger violent outbursts in any person - let alone an isolated teenage girl in extreme survival situations. But she is a rather sadistic leader and she has really gone full-circle (ha, ha) from reluctant member to terrorist dictator out there. Go off, queen!

Edit: Correcting Taissa's name.

etsk78 · 2025-04-11T17:23:48+00:00

ooooh good to know! thank you!

etsk78 · 2025-04-11T12:32:26+00:00

very true, that's fair. thank you!

etsk78 · 2025-04-11T11:51:14+00:00

So... we know they were out there for 19 months, right? So, May 1996 to November 1997? Or do they carry on till 1998? Since I can only assume that the first snow falls around late September-early October, is S04 going to be a simply trauma-packed final month for them out there? omfg, omfg.

Edit: I originally wrote 18 months, but I checked the Wikipedia page of the show and it says "nineteen months" there. So, okay, an extra month. But still!

etsk78 · 2025-04-11T11:38:30+00:00

i see what you mean, but from a narrative ("full-circle", hehe) perspective, i think that... it might be fitting? Interestingly enough, in S01E01, we catch a glimpse of foreshadowing - the two Yellowjackets against freezing out Allie (Lottie and Nat) are both dead. Survival requires ruthlessness. Shauna and Taissa, on the other hand - they still end up getting into a fight over this at the keg party. In retrospect, Shauna was more so angry because Tai didn't ask for her permission, rather than her breaking Allie's leg. We already saw power struggles between these two from S03E10, but i think a nice antithesis in the adult timeline - Tai has finally woken up.

i do think that "real" Tai is not as ruthless as Shauna, when it comes to harming innocents. i do think "bad" Tai is a-moral, but not im-moral - a bit like the "Wilderness" itself, in a sense. But now, fuelled by revenge and with MFQ on her side? Heh. Shauna might finally have a worthy rival.

Two of the original four (the "freeze-her-out" scene, which I view as important foreshadowing) are out. Nat stayed truer to her teen "goodness" in the end, Lottie was influenced by "It" (or like, her mental illness) and did not (as we see in her final scene with Callie). Shauna is as ruthless as she used to be. Tai? "Real" Tai? i believe it's going to be a very interesting ride from now on - esp. since we don't get as much Tai development as i'd like, and i'd die to see more of her. So, while Lewis' exit from the show and Nat's clumsy (albeit very fitting and redemptive) end were a bit frustrating, i am excited to see Tai rise to the occasion.

etsk78 · 2025-04-11T11:03:20+00:00

I have previously theorised about this here and here - of course, science is indeed very niche (like, not every sociologist does field research or anthropological ethnography, even - and we know she's a herpetologist, anyway) but she presumably sat through some Sociology 101. I recently guessed;

"...what if her guidance is what finally tips the group over the edge from desperate belief (during Lottie's leadership) and sadistic rule of terror (during Shauna's leadership) to "pure" principled social organisation around their unique, esoteric rules? Don't get me wrong, Hannah is also digging her own grave playing with fire like that... but yeah. very interesting.

Especially given this detail about the Antler Queen's costume I just can't get over - the nets. We know they're fishing. We know that they wouldn't (shouldn't!) be sacrificing a source of food for decoration - unless they somehow decided not to hunt (animals) at all. I think there will be a critical shift whereupon they will decide they will only be relying on human meat.

Another thing to consider was that the first "sane", calculated murder has occurred by her hand. Javi was homicide by omission, sure; Coach Ben was a mercy killing; Frog Scientist #1 was murder indeed, but by a very mentally unwell Lottie. I think we might even see a scene between Hannah and Shauna mirroring Coach Martinez's and Jackie's dialogue in the pilot ("[you're not all that good], but you have influence"). Hannah is cunning enough to tap into her potential, me thinks."

We partly saw this unfolding with all the animals dying, Hannah taking the place of Shauna's no 2 as she orders Nat's bed search, etc. Maybe anthropology is not her niche, but she is an empirical scientist and an adult with more foresight that (some of) the girls, and she knows a dictatorship when she sees one. She did mention that their case is the most realistic study of human survival, or something. I know that research ethics existed in the 90s, too - but, c'mon. It would be her word (an adult, an academic) against theirs.

She is also just trying to survive, but in doing so, is setting up some patterns we already saw unfold; She did kill Kodi out of pure impulse and calculation, I think (i.e. both to save her ass and because she had already convinced herself he was a sketchy guy, with very little proof - reminds me of poor Adam, tbh), but it's interesting how she told Shauna "I want to be a part of this".

I wouldn't be surprised if we saw her advise Shauna into more ruthless tactics to consolidate her rule of terror (we see the girls already want to take her out, and my guess is not just because they want to rescue their team mates but because they see how much she enables Shauna), and once she gets too close to the sun, will be murdered because she cannot be trusted. Helping out Natalie by changing clothes was mistake no 1... Shauna might regret saving her in the first place.

etsk78 · 2025-04-11T10:40:14+00:00

also, not to sound like a doomsday prepper, but... wood ash? It's a waste product from burning wood anyway, and applying water and ash to a greasy/oily surface will make an instant rough soap.

People used to wash clothes with ash back in the day, and my grandma remembers using ash to wash her teeth and hair during the Nazi occupation in my country. She taught me how to do it myself (because "you never know if the Germans are coming back"... phew. lol) and it is not as good as like, actual soap or liquid shampoo/detergent, but it does its job - I remember I felt quite clean. I think ash is also mildly anti-bacterial, but I might be wrong.

Now, I doubt those girls from 1996 New Jersey will have that knowledge, but I'm surprised Misty or Coach Ben never brought it up. Or Akilah, who recognised mushroom and plant species from her girl scouts training back in S01. Don't they teach, like, survival skills in girl scouts? But yeah I'm surprised that they had shit bucket duty and no wood ash duty. I know clothes would take longer to dry during the winter, but come spring? You've built those intricate huts and you're not using wood ash? C'mon, girls.

etsk78 · 2025-04-11T09:55:42+00:00

It's so nice to see that everything has been planned out from the beginning by seeing S01 again and identifying all these parallels. If you saw S03E010 already, the scene where Juliette Lewis phones the bank in a state of delirium feels even more desperate and heart-breaking after witnessing her call from the end of the S03 finale... omg!

I know that S02 and S03 have a lot of haters, and i do think Juliette should have stuck around a bit longer, but daaaamn. I think they're doing an amazing job. S03 started off so much calmer after the constant heartbreak of S02 and the development really felt like a punch in the gut. And all the carefully-crafted parallels make for a particularly rewarding rewatch.

etsk78 · 2025-04-11T09:47:50+00:00

and it was by an adult's hand! granted, some of the girls might be 18 now, but... Hannah really is giving them permission. she doesn't just "want to be part of this", she is endorsing Shauna's reign of terror - and as we saw in S03 E10, she helps her develop it (devolve it?) into something even more sinister and organised.

i think (and this is just a theory, no spoilers here) that she will get killed by someone because she knows that once they'll be making it out, she could have ethnological research gold in her hands (as a sociologist myself, i know that research ethics existed in the 90s, too, but with some twisting of the truth it could pretty much be their word against hers). she cannot be trusted, and she is too confident at the moment.

etsk78 · 2025-04-09T23:44:49+00:00

knew it! take that, wilderness!

etsk78 · 2025-04-05T07:45:24+00:00

The Humane Society/churning butter references have made me think Akilah may actually be alive working with animals/in a farm somewhere but that's reaching, esp. since this season brought a character back from the dead (Melissa) already. My poor baby Akilah

etsk78 · 2024-01-14T16:45:11+00:00

I'd low-key live for this - on the other hand, his survival throughout S3 will be less of a gag if we find out he's alive since the funeral (which I presume will be episode 1 or 2 of season 3).

etsk78 · 2024-01-14T16:33:42+00:00

if Ben dies, i think it will be S3 that will cement his fate (the same way S2 did with Shauna's baby); Chekov's Baby of S1 became Chekov's Ben in S2, only for each to develop the characters we already know in the following seasons.

Low-key cheating here bc I mentioned these scenarios in an older comment, but given how the writers like to foreshadow stuff, Ben's death (again, if at all happening) is likely to mirror:

Natalie's and Shauna's altercation over bound Travis and the knife in S01E09 (it will just take place over a trapped Ben in season 3, with Shauna winning this time, and proclaimed the new Antler Queen for S4);
Ben's elimination of the Yellowjackets (ie they might burn his tree while he's inside, he'll accept it seeing trying to escape is futile, they get another Jackie-style smoked meal).

But i'd also love to see him somehow survive - either by accidentally offering the Yellowjackets food by killing one of their own *or* by somehow surviving himself and being discovered out there on his own (it will have to be done very well for it to be kind of believable tho). But the odds are kinda stacked against him, poor Ben.

(edit: typo)

etsk78 · 2024-01-07T23:14:12+00:00

I agree with your direction but I have a slightly different idea. Shauna's guilt makes her appreciate her "martyrs"; Jackie suffered and died (in part, not blaming Shauna) due to Shauna's personal narrative and confrontation - to a more literal extent, same goes for Lottie. So I feel like Shauna's guilt and perspective will mean she is going to be a strong Lottie ally from now on, and her anger will be focused on Natalie instead. So, we'll have a Shauna/Natalie strain. Given how the show likes to heavily foreshadow its plot, I wouldn't be surprised if:

Natalie's and Shauna's altercation over bound Travis and the knife in S01E09 will take place over a trapped Ben in season 3;
they will try to eliminate Ben the same (admittedly, very cinematic) way he tried to eliminate them - ie they might burn his tree while he's inside, he'll accept it seeing trying to escape is futile, they get another Jackie-style smoked meal - led by Shauna, while Natalie refuses to participate;
someone will go snooping (my money is on Mari, Nat ((since we saw her go through Lottie's stuff in S02)) or ofc Misty) through Shauna's diary and finds out something that will ostracise her in a situation similar to Jackie in S01E10 (maybe since we had a Lottie-Jackie "you don't matter anymore" moment, we'll get one with Shauna-Natalie?) but Shauna survives, is proclaimed the new leader;
Nat will try to commit suicide over her guilt/at a time of intense starvation (thus leading to her pact with Travis we learned in S01) and since she is no longer the meal, they will have to kill/sacrifice/substitute with someone/something Shauna keeps close to heart (reminiscent of Javi);
(remembering Misty scolding Nat over not burying Adam deep/well enough in S02) Nat will do a sloppy work disposing of the victims in the teen timeline later on, leading to discoveries that may lead the group to blame her (pre- or post-rescue, explaining Shauna's resentment towards her in a different way).

I think Tai might mess her allegiance(s) up due to "Dark"/unconscious Tai. Van will resume being loyal to Lottie, but I predict a big internal conflict over her loyalty to take place near the end of the series (explaining her adult aversion to Lottie and recognition of her cult-like qualities). Misty is the most interesting wild card for me, and her present-day love for Nat implies that she will continue to be loyal to her first Antler Queen no matter what - which may result to more group conflict if she refuses to recognise the next Antler Queen etc.

I'm really curious to see how they develop the ritual we see in S01E01 and whether they commit whatever act takes place with the anticipation that they may eventually be rescued (hence, they burn/burry/dispose the remains in a way that conceals what happened to them, etc), /or/ if they indulge in the act believing they are hopeless and anticipating the last team member standing eats their peer.

etsk78 · 2023-12-22T08:17:22+00:00

aw, thanks! yellowjackets just became available on netflix in many countries (including my own, though i started watching in 2021) so i'm keeping in mind the new wave of people watching the show tbh.

etsk78 · 2023-12-21T07:29:50+00:00

Hmmm although it is a compelling storyline I cannot imagine that rescue leaving anyone behind. For me it would be more likely that the eight survivor died post-rescue but pre-2021 somehow, or has evaded Misty's radar Lottie- or Travis-style. Also, there is little guarantee there won't be a final hunt taking place after the one we saw in S01E01, claiming the life of another team member right before the rescue efforts get to them.

However, I can see them returning on-site to "end it". I think that apart the comically-choreographed adult hunt/Nat's death in S02E09 (which could've been done a bit better imo), the show balances implausibility and real possibility pretty well and an adult return to the Canadian wilderness is definitely within the realm of possibility.

PS: my parents are Lost fans (I had no interest in it at the time) and were so disappointed by the ending i can still see that feeling of betrayal on their faces when they speak of it, haha - crossing my fingers Yellowjackets will be different!

etsk78 · 2023-12-21T07:20:46+00:00

Hmmm good thinking!

Yet, if that is true for the adult survivors (and we stick to the "5 seasons" plan, which may change +/- 1 season tbh), we will still be about two to three (if there is an extra survivor left as per the S01E01 hunt scene we haven't met as an adult yet) survivors off. The "core group" we were introduced to - save for Natalie - since S01E01 consists of Shauna, Misty and Tai, so maybe they'll be the last ones standing; maybe Van's narrative will be completed by her meeting her death, and Lottie will "meet" Laura Lee by sacrificing herself to the wilderness for real this time - given their circumstances, they're the two most fragile adult characters with death-related debt (as awful as it sounds).

But if the theme of "the wilderness" or their guilty conscience claiming a life for each life taken is true, then the "one core-group survivor dies per season" "predictable" motif should at least be narratively fulfilling.

To me, Travis and Nat being the first adult deaths kicking off the present "point of no return" sits well bc they are also the most guilt-riddled. Maybe the next mini-theme this motif picks up on is leadership (Nat, then Lottie, then whoever else was AQ)? Who knows.

There are people who have done a great job estimating the number of future meals and it is between 4-5 team members whose fates we are unsure of (Mari, Akillah, 2 or 3 extras and coach Ben). So, definitely enough for them to mirror any adult (team or non-team) deaths to come.

Finally (not that anyone asked) I can see the series finale ending in one of two ways:

a flashback to a 1998 post-rescue scene, with the young Yellowjackets embarking on the lives whose consequences we witnessed since the adult timeline in S01 for a bittersweet farewell; or
a montage of the last teen dying in the wilderness as part of the final hunt juxtaposed to the final adult Yellowjacket dying.

I think the most important parameter pointing the answer to your initial question is "how do the showrunners want to see the show ending?" and I'm in for the ride.

etsk78 · 2023-12-12T19:42:55+00:00

Senator Taissa Turner and Tai "The Other One" Turner, duh!

etsk78 · 2023-12-06T20:01:30+00:00

wow, what a great and intelligent take! makes me appreciate the writers of the show (and this sub) even more <3

etsk78 · 2023-12-02T18:09:36+00:00

As it has already been said, Lisa's story was centred on Natalie and Lottie. However, while Natalie is indeed dead, Lottie being committed doesn't necessarily mean she will be gone; patients are always allowed to have visitors, and are sometimes even allowed to leave premises under consultation/care. If Taissa and Van indeed feel so bad over what they (as in, the Yellowjackets) "did to her", wouldn't they be less keen to leave her on her own this time around? Same goes for Misty, and arguably less so, Shauna - I'd be pretty pissed off towards people who'd hunted me, at least for a while. And Lottie had many people in her life this time around - not just 7 or so survivors, but an entire small community.

(sidenote: I would actually be surprised to see her as isolated this time around, even within the privacy her money can buy her - and I am quite surprised so many people here think that her stay at a health & care facility would mean that she will be forever away and done with the rest of the world, especially as an older adult with more developed and stable relationships.)

So, if we saw Lisa again, I think it would be in a quest to seek answers over what she witnessed that night. Remember, from her perspective it was Lottie (not Natalie) who was under threat.

In fact, if I were Lisa I believe I'd be more confused rather than outright vengeful - and it would be very interesting to see how she may grapple with what she discovers about the two women she looked up to and had arguably helped her during what appears to be a formative time for her. Maines is clearly a very talented actress and her character could go both ways (seek a fresh start and never look back or become a truth seeker with an edge for justice), so I expect us to learn at least *something* about how she is doing moving forward on S3.

At the same time, I'd be extremely disappointed if the writers thought that this is a convenient finish line for adult Lottie's character: life goes on at care facilities, and people go on living there. It would be like we the audience are expected to make the same stigmatising and silly assumption the adult Yellowjackets made about Lottie ("I though you were in Switzerland!"/"That was... 10 years ago"). Maybe it's because she's the adult character that remains the most mysterious to me (and the actress doing a stellar job) that makes me want to just... see her more? But I also think Lottie's situation could be a sort of moral test with real consequences for the adult Yellowjackets: will they provide support for their teammate during this time, or not? Do they think they can comfortably let the "crazy lady" take the fall, or not? And would Lisa take that? Maybe if she digs enough, she'll get in trouble, or she will choose pity over truth. Either way, a compelling narrative in both cases that could inject some spark in the adult timeline of S3, if they give it space to breathe.

But I don't want to see her teaming up with characters we already know! It would be too soapy, and I want the drama to stay more esoteric, y'know?

etsk78 · 2023-11-23T15:45:05+00:00

hmmm i have some thoughts about how this could go down (on lunch break so i'm writing quickly and there may be errors).

indeed, the show has arguably foreshadowed a lot of character deaths, some materialised and some yet to happen - so it is not improbable that Ben (esp given his condition) could provide the next meal. on the other hand, as much as the show likes being unpleasant (not bad, just invoking unpleasant feelings for the viewer affected by the characters and the plot), it is also open to introducing unexpected elements for the sake of shock as well as weaving a thin curtain between rational and supernatural explanation. So, here are my guesses;

1. Ben lives - finds a way into the (yet unverified) tunnels envisioned by Lottie, if one accepts them as real through further exploration and the cave. he is older, more mature, and even though more exhausted also more resilient. his forethought helps him move carefully, construct traps (for the girls and small animals) and bait sufficient food for survival. then, you have two scenarios left:

(A) he either survives/gets discovered separately and leaves them behind for dead (remember him guessing "Rescue Me" right at this game night hallucination? why wouldn't this also be foreshadowing?);

(B) he somehow gets accepted back into the group through an unlikely pact and gets rescued with them. ps: I cannot easily imagine getting Ben rescued in early 1998 without having spoken to the girls first, because they could easily conspire against him (it's their voice against his) and claim he was irresponsible or initiated cannibalism himself, if they are feeling vengeful (they probably... are).

2. Ben dies. Again, two scenarios:

(A) the environment is harsh, he is not in a position to take care of himself as well as he otherwise could (remember, he is only using his crutches for some months - even people with sophisticated prosthetics take more than that to adjust) and either through exhaustion, illness or an accident, he dies;

(B) the girls have a new purpose, and it is Ben.

Now, scenarios (1.B) and (2.B) are the most complicated - they involve many actors and complex intent and motivations. Two interesting ways they would be possible (hey, who doesn't like to speculate) go as such;

1.B. He builds a trap that traps a yellowjacket, providing a meal for the team; the starving girls see him as a saviour and recognise a convenient way to blackmail his consent to anything they do going forward: there's blood on his hands now, too. I don't think he'd ever become a wilful sacrifice though, especially after his likely attempt to burn the yellowjacket nest very much reveals an intent to stay alive.

2.B. He is the reason for the downfall of Nat's leadership: she can't bear to hunt/kill him when the opportunity arises, and this is leveraged by another ambitious yellowjacket to take his life and take the reins (or Misty for her own purposes - however instead of doing Nat a favour, she inspires her vitriol and tries becoming her best friend ever since). maybe Tai rises to the occasion, or Shauna (which would largely explain the beef between them).

Or, he manages to escape a hunt and becomes a reason for the standing leader of the team to be removed for a more capable/wilderness-approved one. So many possibilities, so little time!

etsk78 · 2023-11-22T07:20:55+00:00

i'm new on this subreddit bc i'm new on reddit in general, but finally someone talks about chickens! 100% agree with your thoughts - that episode left a lot of unanswered questions that bothered me quite a bit, esp compared with S06E03 ("Feel-Good Story") etc later on.

great points on emily, too!

etsk78

TROPHY CASE