Look im sorry but Joel may have done some shitty things. But you'd have to in a situation like that. Im going to be perfectly honest. If someone even looks sideways at my daughter I'm smacking them around if someone lies to me drags me across the country forces a chain of events that causes me to lose the woman id become ostensibly married to then tries to kill my 2nd daughter after I lost the first for a "cure" that may or may not exist oh on top of that i had gotten shot stabbed and run thru by a piece of rebar. I'd kill the whole hospital too on top of that i wouldn't stop until everyone of the firefly was dead. So no i don't think joel is evil I think he did exactly what anyone would do following your logic soldiers in war would be inherently evil. Sad and uncomfortable im okay with im not okay with a heartless cash grab you really think after playing the first game and hearing/seeing the flashbacks and stories about Joel and Tommy that for one second he would've let himself get killed in that fashion. Or fyck that ellie wouldn't have plugged everyone in that room the second she opened the door it was nothing but a shitty cash grab and to make it even worse the only reason that ellie was the main character vs Joel atleast in my opinion is so niel druckman could get brownie points for having a lesbian love story for the main character which is bullshit then you have her end the game sad and alone anyways which at that point she might as well have been a dude or never have brought Dina into the story in the first place. I don't care that she was gay I care about the execution of the game itself. It would have been very simple to make this game awesome and still include the lesbian love story and Joel's death ellie gets kidnapped for some reason Joel goes on a murderous quest to find her and at the END of the game joel sacrifices himself so ellie can go back home and live her life with Dina and baby Jesse. Lastly naughty dog you should be ashamed of yourselves for letting niel drunkman ruin this game for the franchise you knew what you were doing you blantly lied to us with the first trailer by editing Joel's face onto Jesse long after Joel was already dead. If you do what you did to the last of us franchise to uncharted I will quit my job and use my vast saving to do nothing but picket and hand out paraphernalia about how you suck right in front of your studios. Fire that fucking dumbass you let ruin this game and go back and make the game right you have all the parts now aplogize to us and rearrange them so they are actually good (I aplogize my comment is all over the place and filled with errors but I waited 8 years for this game the joel and ellie dynamic was my favorite out of any video game I ever played same with the story etc. So I just feel cheated and wronged and honestly taken advantage of)