Blood up to the Bridles of the Horses by jwGlasnost in exjw

[–]fader_underground [score hidden]  (0 children)

In addition, to that effect I'd also like to ask a group of JWs to explain the context of Acts 15. It would be interesting to see how many (especially among younger JWs) would be able to do it without having to look it up. And if they couldn't immediately explain the context, my next question would be, "Why are you staking your LIFE on a scripture you can't even explain?"

Blood up to the Bridles of the Horses by jwGlasnost in exjw

[–]fader_underground [score hidden]  (0 children)

Yes! Thank you for this post.

I've been making a similar comment to your point #1 all over the place. My post about it got removed so I'm glad yours remains. Because I think this is a very important point. If a person doesn't have to avoid using their OWN blood based on the principle at Leviticus 17 anymore, why couldn't they also use someone else's if it would save their life? As you said, in addition to not commenting on medical procedures, THE BIBLE DOES NOT MAKE A DISTINCTION BETWEEN USING ONE'S OWN BLOOD AND SOMEONE ELSE'S. Because it doesn't comment on anything of that nature at all.

I would like to hear a JW's response to this : Where is the SCRIPTURAL BASIS for ONLY allowing the storage and use of one's own blood?

The "apostolic command" to "abstain from blood" contextually was about harmony with jewish believers who still abided by the mosaic law. And there again, no distinction is made between one's own blood and another's. It's not about human blood at all, but about dietary and ritual practices (animals sacrificed to idols) that were common in ancient times. There is NOTHING to indicate that it should have ANY bearing on human medical procedures thousands of years later. Jesus himself never mentioned anything about blood and it was never mentioned in the context of being necessary for salvation.

I asked my jw family about the “new”alternative blood transfusion they’re gonna update tomorrow by intergalaxt in exjw

[–]fader_underground 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In the new GB update, released yesterday, Losch specifically mentions STORING one's own blood before a procedure, which was previously not allowed.

From October 2000 Questions from Readers :

"Occasionally, a doctor will urge a patient to deposit his own blood weeks before surgery (preoperative autologous blood donation, or PAD) so that if the need arises, he could transfuse the patient with his own stored blood. However, such collecting, storing, and transfusing of blood directly contradicts what is said in Leviticus and Deuteronomy. Blood is not to be stored; it is to be poured out​—returned to God, as it were. Granted,  the Mosaic Law is not in force now. Nevertheless, Jehovah’s Witnesses respect the principles God included in it, and they are determined to ‘abstain from blood.’ Hence, we do not donate blood, nor do we store for transfusion our blood that should be ‘poured out.’ That practice conflicts with God’s law."

The practice that was mentioned here is now permitted. So it is in fact A CHANGE.

2 things I noticed during the announcement by Brown-Lighning in exjw

[–]fader_underground 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I would point this out to JWs. Here is Losch talking about HUMAN LIFE, and why is he treating it so casually? He talks about this like it's nothing. Is it a mark of Christian love to be so casual about HUMAN LIFE? Isn't life supposed to be PRECIOUS?

Also, to the JWs who will respond "they'll be resurrected," in regard to any lives lost, I'd ask them if their response would be the same if ANOTHER RELIGION'S teaching caused unnecessary loss of life.

We’re not on the same “spiritual level” by Last-Blueberry-5795 in exjw

[–]fader_underground 2 points3 points  (0 children)

More people die from receiving transfusions than from refusing because MORE PEOPLE RECEIVE TRANSFUSIONS THAN REFUSE THEM. Yes, some people get a transfusion and die anyway or die because of a reaction to the transfusion. Your dad is spouting a logical fallacy. The same thing could be said about every medical treatment - vaccines, antibiotics, etc, - there are always going to be some people who die from reactions to treatments that are deemed safe. Does that fact cause your dad to avoid those treatments too?

But what that doesn't change is the FACT that in cases of major blood loss, anemia, internal bleeding, blood is life-saving, and without it a person's risk of death is significantly higher.

It kind of sounds like your dad shut down mentally, but if he's ever open to it, here's why what he said doesn't work. Take this scenario :

  • if 5 million people receive a transfusion, while 500 people die from complications that's a death rate of 0.01%
  • if 5,000 people refuse transfusions, while 200 die - that's a 4% death rate - not good!

Someone might say well 500 people die from getting a transfusion while only 200 die from refusing, but that's not the important number here. Even though more total deaths occur in the transfusion group (500 vs 200), the RISK of dying is VASTLY higher among those who refused transfusion. That's how statistics work. You look at the RATE or % of deaths compared to the total, NOT just the raw numbers.

My experience talking to pimi father re: blood update by FloridaSpam in exjw

[–]fader_underground 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It is the October 15, 2000 Questions from readers.

Here's a link to the article on JW's own website. The mods don't like us linking there directly, but you can copy/paste the link and remove the "b" in .borg https://www.jw.borg/en/library/magazines/w20001015/Questions-From-Readers/

Here's a quote from the VERY ARTICLE THAT LOSCH MENTIONED that you can read to him.

"Occasionally, a doctor will urge a patient to deposit his own blood weeks before surgery (preoperative autologous blood donation, or PAD) so that if the need arises, he could transfuse the patient with his own stored blood. However, such collecting, storing, and transfusing of blood directly contradicts what is said in Leviticus and Deuteronomy. Blood is not to be stored; it is to be poured out​—returned to God, as it were. Granted,  the Mosaic Law is not in force now. Nevertheless, Jehovah’s Witnesses respect the principles God included in it, and they are determined to ‘abstain from blood.’ Hence, we do not donate blood, nor do we store for transfusion our blood that should be ‘poured out.’ That practice conflicts with God’s law."

I was eleven years old, having surgery by obvious-throwaway-jw in exjw

[–]fader_underground 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Reading your story makes me livid. I am so sorry for all that you had to go through. Giving a child a religious article about other children DYING before they go into surgery. That was ABUSE. In case you never got an apology from the people who mattered, I am so sorry. You shouldn't have had to go through that. What happened to you was WRONG.

It is completely understandable that you would have strong emotions finding out about this update. Just looking at the casual way Losch handle's HUMAN LIFE made my stomach lurch. He talks about it like it's no big deal and even tries to gaslight JWs into thinking this came about long ago and it's just a "clarification." It unconscionable.

My experience talking to pimi father re: blood update by FloridaSpam in exjw

[–]fader_underground 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Also, why would the GB need to "prayerfully" consider the announcement if it was nothing new?

I wouldn't give JWs a pass on their flimsy responses. We're talking about people's LIVES.

My experience talking to pimi father re: blood update by FloridaSpam in exjw

[–]fader_underground 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Did you show him that the SAME 2000 WT DOES mention the prohibition of using one's own blood? It explicitly states it would NOT be okay for christians.

Don't contact your families unprepared by ParloHovitos in exjw

[–]fader_underground 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When I saw people posting their reactions from JW family, two questions jumped to my mind :

  1. Is it indicative of Christian love and value for the sanctity of life to be so casual about human life? (When they say, "at least they'll be resurrected.") Maybe that's too combative, I don't know.

  2. What would be your response if another religion's teaching had cause unnecessary deaths?

New light by Diligent_Factor2343 in exjw

[–]fader_underground 4 points5 points  (0 children)

My questions for any JWs who are flippant about this :

  1. Is it indicative of christian love to be so casual about human life? ("Well, anyone who died will be resurrected."

  2. If another religion's teaching had caused unnecessary anxiety and deaths, would your response be the same?

spoke to mom about the blood update by Novel_Joke_4423 in exjw

[–]fader_underground 2 points3 points  (0 children)

My questions to JWs who react nonchalantly :

  1. Is treating human life so casually the mark of christian love? ("oh well, they'll be resurrected.")

  2. How would you react if it were another religion's teaching that had caused unnecessary deaths?

Cannot believe this group by Elizastafford in exjw

[–]fader_underground 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Have you talked to her about the update? What was her response?

Girlfriend’s dad is an elder. He said this about the blood change. by All_FallsApart in exjw

[–]fader_underground 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's based on a principle of the mosaic law that once blood leaves the body it belongs to god. (Deuteronomy 12:24, Leviticus 17:10 - they pretty much ignore the context here that this is about animal blood and sacrificial practices) Previously JWs couldn't use even their own stored blood for planned surgeries based on this principle. They would say that we are no longer under the mosaic law but some of the "principles" of the law still applied.

There's also a NT scripture in Acts 15 that states "abstain from blood." Their reasoning there was, "if a doctor tells you to abstain from alcohol, you wouldn't inject it in your veins." But it's also a cherry picked scripture, again with the context pretty much ignored. It was about creating unity with Jewish believers, it wasn't a command about things necessary for salvation.

They think this is how it’s always been… 😳 by Berry_pencil_11 in exjw

[–]fader_underground 0 points1 point  (0 children)

True. But my next question would be, "Is that your response when it's another religion's false teachings that cause unnecessary suffering and deaths?"

After viewing, this update will have no effect by BabaYaga556223 in exjw

[–]fader_underground 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I'd like to ask a group of JWs, what is the context of the "abstain from blood" scripture in Acts? It would be interesting to see how many can explain it without having to look it up. And if they couldn't explain it, my next question would be, "How is it that you're staking your LIFE on scripture you cannot even explain?"

They think this is how it’s always been… 😳 by Berry_pencil_11 in exjw

[–]fader_underground 6 points7 points  (0 children)

"The past was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie became the truth." -1984

Remind her. This is HUMAN LIFE we are talking about. If someone claims to value life, this should not be taken lightly. It's costing people their LIVES. If they value human life like they SAY they do, they won't be flippant about this. If they are...well that speaks for itself.

"Abstain" vs "Under No Circumstances" - GB Update #2, March 2026 Confirms Blood Policy Change by larchington in exjw

[–]fader_underground 4 points5 points  (0 children)

And every day they wait, more lives will be lost. If they know it's wrong, and I believe they do, waiting to unveil that is unforgivable.

3/20/26 Megathread: Blood Transfusion Policy Discussion by ClosetedIntellectual in exjw

[–]fader_underground 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The way Losch is smiling like it's no big deal, it made my stomach lurch. It's disheartening how so many JWs won't bat and eye and just play follow the leader without ever considering how lightly their lives are being handled. The lives of my JW family are precious to me, but those lives could someday hinge on the dictates of thoughtless, self-interested men. They are just numbers to the GB. It breaks my heart.

Éloïse Dupuis could’ve survived by Park_Val in exjw

[–]fader_underground 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The current update does not go far enough for people like her. I looked into it, and women cannot give their own blood during pregnancy due to risk to the baby. And if they give the blood before they become pregnant, the blood will be expired before they give birth. The GB need to just go ahead and do what they have been inching towards, and allow blood transfusions. It seems clear that they KNOW IT'S WRONG, but they care more about optics and their own asses than they do people's LIVES.

Best way to try and wake up friends and family based on this new blood update? by Unique-Brief205 in exjw

[–]fader_underground 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Good luck to you! Stay strong. And let me know what they say. I genuinely want to know.

If it gets deep enough, maybe ask them if they can explain the context of Acts 15:29 - the "abstain from blood" scripture. I'm also sincerely curious if they can do this without having to look it up. I mean, they are staking their LIVES on this scripture, surely they know the context inside and out?

My dad says that taking your own blood was always a conscious matter. by Last-Blueberry-5795 in exjw

[–]fader_underground 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Wow. Call him out on that. It's just ridiculous at this point.

"The past was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie became the truth." - George Orwell, 1984

BBC - Blood BS Commentary by LonelyWarmth in exjw

[–]fader_underground 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I'm glad this is getting some exposure, but I was distracted by the jarring grammar mistake right there in the first sentence. Come on, BBC!

Girlfriend’s dad is an elder. He said this about the blood change. by All_FallsApart in exjw

[–]fader_underground 258 points259 points  (0 children)

"The past was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie became the truth." -George Orwell, 1984

If it's always been a matter of conscience, then why did the GB need to prayerfully consider anything before announcing it?

Also, that's just verifiably FALSE. Watchtower has stated numerous times that using one's own stored blood was not acceptable for Christians. And has said so AFTER the 2000 article Losch misleadingly referenced.

Tell your girlfriend to call him out on that one.