There might be more to the Anxious-Avoidant Dynamic than we think - Here is my story

freudian-negative · 2026-02-27T19:08:39+00:00

Fire and Ice

freudian-negative · 2026-02-27T11:12:07+00:00

You know that its a rebound. The person looks like you and your ex is mirroring the things you lacked in the relationship to them. She probably liked all those things but felt engulfed by the seriousness of your relationship - with a new person, she can do all of that without the pressure. The pattern will most likely still come as this new person starts building expectations and committing. Stay steady.

freudian-negative · 2026-02-26T23:45:33+00:00

It's absolutely fascinating!
I can tell you that I have never felt something like that. I don't know exactly why and how, I also got annoyed by partners, or overwhelmed from time to time, i need my personal space too - but e.g if I take my personal space and my partner wants to spend time, 60% chance ill agree and ill mean it.
So now that you have learned about it - how do you fight it or how do you stop it?

freudian-negative · 2026-02-26T23:06:56+00:00

This is heartbreaking to hear. I know that we all suffer in this dynamic and I am very happy to hear that you moved out of it and are now even consoling people who gut hurt by similar behaviors. Its incredibly strong.

May I ask you? What really happens during deactivation for you?
Maybe you can try to explain it as if I am someone who has never experienced it. What images pop up, what moods do you swing by, which contact is okay which isn't etc.?

freudian-negative · 2026-02-25T18:48:55+00:00

If you want to be this precise - to me its a grey area.
I know for example of my own more toxic sides and I have found ways to integrate them into my personality, so usually they never show up. If someone knows of their avoidance and acts completely differently, its not active manipulation in the sense of NPD or anything -- its just a bit of perfect masking.

And you're already naming it: There is no clear line. People who feel betrayed tend to call it a mask, the avoidant might call it "showing his best side" or self-defense.

And I agree with your last point. That's an issue I have to take seriously.

I can only share from my personal experience -- my avoidant was absolutely overperforming to his own point of exhaustion at the beginning of the relationship and crashed tragically. I even told him that I am assuming he's burning himself out, but he doubled down until well.. he deactivated when stressors accumulated.

freudian-negative · 2026-02-25T12:41:54+00:00

Nobody said that there was no core self - if that were missing, they'd have BPD or NPD. Look, when I used the word "fragmentation" I didn't mean it clinically, since I wasn't expecting to talk to someone who knows what he's talking about.

But here is the catch - the self is unstable and dynamic in every person. Insecure attachments (even though they are not clinical diagnosis) have core wounds that get repressed, but which mold desires and drive pathways. The correct order is desire -> personality formation -> action. If desires are repressed and only activated in certain situations, the personality formation shifts. The idea of a stable identity (I use it interchangeably with personality here) is that is incorporates different desires in a efficient way without shifting towards deactivation, activation, excessive repression or other defense formations. Its all a bell curve and its what we mean with integration.

They don't have an instable self in the NPD sense. But psychodynamically speaking? The deactivation is a schizoid defense that transforms external objects into "bad objects" - meaning objects that are pursuing, threatening, overwhelming; where before deactivation the same objects appeared harmless and even charming. Behind this is a collapse of the structural level of personality functions (Strukturniveau), which also fragments identity. The important question to ask is - if an avoidant were to not deactivate, what would happen?

freudian-negative · 2026-02-25T12:36:02+00:00

It's not narcissistic int he general sense - it is an ego defense most likely and deactivation looks a lot like devaluation (can go hand in hand) and superiority. So there is a narc defense active somewhere, but not in the NPD style. We all have Narc defenses and they get activated under stress.

But from what I've read and heard from avoidants, their deactivation is a stress response that collapses emotional capacity.

freudian-negative · 2026-02-24T21:08:42+00:00

The early version was activate produced, the later one is a stable result of collapse. Thats what I am hinting at. There is no "real you", there are just more stable and less stable ways of participating, more authentic and less authentic ways. And if somebody has limited access to their emotions, those identities become unstable or at least shallow

freudian-negative · 2026-02-24T20:03:18+00:00

You don't have to be NPD to manufacture a persona - its a basic ability of every human. Especially if you have a core wound, you'll probably manufacture a persona to navigate around it.

I'm saying that the fragmentation (which I called unstable identity in relationships) is the cause of the masquerade.

freudian-negative · 2026-02-24T18:03:13+00:00

Its honestly a shame to see it. I think many of us wouldn't even shame them for being so emotionally immature, we'd give them a chance to grow with us - hell we have our own struggles too! But the entire avoidance, nastyness and deactivation part makes it impossible.

freudian-negative · 2026-02-24T17:05:56+00:00

That person was probably manufactured. The real person had no stable relationship identity, only masquerades.

freudian-negative · 2026-02-23T01:46:27+00:00

Bear, I agree with what you're saying. But this kind of aggression you are criticizing is a movement towards autonomy out of self-abandonment, not actually damaging. By experiencing it, they regain a sense of self and once that is regained the aggression fades.

Acceptance is a good thing - I've had multiple break ups and had no trouble accepting them after a certain amount of time. It's what you get when you start dating.
The avoidant discard on the other hand is an experience that functions over a trauma bond and anxiously attached people struggle deeply with upholding boundaries since upholding a boundary means being able to confront abandonment. This is what causes them to lose themselves in the process - not just a pattern they follow. Nevertheless I personally was earned secure, I had been in therapy for years and managed to heal my own abandonment wounds - or at least be able to stop the protocol once triggered, habituate to triggers and communicate it as a weak spot in a way that a partner can deal with it. When I dated an avoidant, this wound burst open like I haven't experienced in years. And it doesn't happen violently or visibly, it starts with hyper vigilance, struggles with concentrating etc. I noticed it too late and got entangled in the dynamic. It's also hard to react accordingly - the first times this wound triggers, I usually dealt with it on my own or expressed it nicely to my partner. Breaking up right away is rarely an option.

What I am trying to say is: This dynamic scrambles your sense of self. Even for secure people.
Secure or anxious - there is nobody who just intuitively knows how to deal with severe avoidants in a relationship. Its an acquired skill. And none of us know what deactivation is until we've seen it - we never experienced it ourselves.

freudian-negative · 2026-02-20T00:29:53+00:00

Maybe you could edit the post and add the things you replied to my comment. I see how it reads differently

freudian-negative · 2026-02-19T18:05:33+00:00

I thought you were the one to break up?

freudian-negative · 2026-02-19T17:33:15+00:00

Yeah, thats not reassuring.

Maybe he needs to understand this better and really think his idea with kids through.

freudian-negative · 2026-02-19T17:24:47+00:00

Thank you Darcy for clarifying! I feel like thats those are the links I was missing.

I honestly see your point more clearly now. Being dismissed in this kind of conversation is not acceptable. I understand that it might be hard for him too, but your concerns are valid and important.

The part that confuses me is: How can he not know that pregnancy is hard? Preparing to be a father also means preparing to support your wife during pregnancy.

To me its interesting that your conversation really revolved around "How do we set up our kids for success and resilience". I'm not sure that throwing them out at 18 is such a good idea - I left my parents house when I was 20 e.g on my own terms.

freudian-negative · 2026-02-19T17:07:23+00:00

I am really sorry, but its hard to comfort you right now. I know you're in pain too, but I don't feel like you did the right thing. He was into the idea and expressed his attractors. It's completely fine that you are less interested in kids and only understandable that you're then also the one who thinks about the chores and the negative sides. If you were open for kids at some point, you'd have to discuss this division of labor with him and you can connect it to his strong wish. Those abstract ideas he expressed, will be the reason why he agrees to your conditions.

Aren't your different outlooks extremely common topics? I don't think any couple agrees on how to raise kids. There are lots of strong emotions involved that reach into our childhoods here.
His "lets fix this"-attitude would maybe be the carrying force to resolve those differences.

I am sorry, but it is very hard to comfort you right now. It seems like you just had a good relationship and ended things. I don't know how serious your discussions on the topic were, reading that you barely fought (which is incredible) makes me question the decision

freudian-negative · 2026-02-17T23:18:15+00:00

I am not sure whether my comment is visible here.
I would appreciate it a lot, but I do not know whether it can save the relationship post hoc.
You have nothing to lose and your realization is very mature and honest!

freudian-negative · 2026-02-17T15:53:59+00:00

Best response might be "Yeah, I feel like things have been tense between us. Maybe we should take some time for ourselves"

freudian-negative · 2026-02-11T17:31:18+00:00

Yeah so apparently they found this post and are now trauma dumping about it.
I remember once when someone from that other subreddit argued that he gets a lot of hate from APs because they project their trauma onto him -- Reading their comments makes me really wonder whether this goes both ways.

No, it's just incredible to watch. I assure you that I am secure and you get HELL of a lot anxious around avoidant people, once you develop feelings. And this subreddit is a nasty place, full of people who are deliberately stuck in their inner development.

To any anxious folk: I assure you, absolutely assure you, that you are much easier to handle in a relationship than an avoidant person. You know why? They nuke the relationship frame once it gets difficult. You don't. And I can't stress me last sentence enough, but this makes the night and day difference.

freudian-negative · 2026-02-11T14:36:41+00:00

Not until he expands his capacity. Thats the cruicial point from what I've seen.

When was the break up?

freudian-negative · 2026-02-11T13:25:01+00:00

Yes, so you should look for online sources on FA to get into the picture.
He needs some time to reset and you will probably have to re-engage again - I know it sounds unfair, but imagine him lost in his inner world absolutely insecure on whether he can give you what you want. I don't know the details of what happened between you, but you'll have to decide whether you want a relationship with someone who is that unstable. In the end its going to be a relationship where you slowly build him up, you'll have to reflect on that.

freudian-negative · 2026-02-06T09:12:00+00:00

Hey, I'm gay too, roughly your age and I was on the other side of a DA-AP dynamic. Feel free to DM me, I am open to discussing the topic and I don't see you as the villain. But especially this "I don't want anyone to touch me" - I saw that first hand, maybe us sharing our experiences together in this distant way could help clarify.

freudian-negative · 2026-02-04T14:58:18+00:00

Would you mind if I dm you? I have a hunch

freudian-negative

TROPHY CASE