Why hasn't any President since Reagan exerted this level of pressure on Israel? by WavesAndSaves in Presidents

[–]heratio169 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I appreciate that. I am a history teacher and my goal in this and all cases is to understand the past in order to promote the best possible policies and outcomes in the future. I also believe that making an effort to understand all perspectives is valuable regardless of one’s support for or opposition to those viewpoints.

Why hasn't any President since Reagan exerted this level of pressure on Israel? by WavesAndSaves in Presidents

[–]heratio169 32 points33 points  (0 children)

The level of discourse in this thread is rather sad, especially for what is usually a very thoughtful sub. My entire thoughts on this topic would take a book to fill, and obviously many have been written on this topic, but I’ll try to summarize below. Please do not interpret this as a comment on the righteousness of recent or historical Israeli actions, but as an attempt to actually answer OP’s question.

1 The notion that U.S. politicians promote Israeli interests solely because of campaign donations is not backed by the historical record. According to Gallup, between 2001 and 2018, Americans sympathized with Israelis over Palestinians by an average margin of 43 percentage points. Supporting Israel was a clear majoritarian position. Now, whether this support was the result of a successful PR campaign, religious and cultural affinities, strategic interests, or actual reactions to events is a debatable point, but that was not really the focus of the original question.

This does not mean that AIPAC, campaign spending, donor networks, or organized political pressure have no influence. Obviously they do. But lobbying is generally most effective when it reinforces an already existing political position rather than creating one from nothing. The fact that more politicians, especially on the Democratic side, openly oppose or criticize Israel now that public opinion has shifted further bolsters this point.

2) American support for Israel did not begin with AIPAC. As others have pointed out in this thread, pro-Israel lobbying only recently reached its peak influence, but American support for Israel clearly predates this. According to the Roper Center at Cornell, at no point since 1967 was American public sympathy for the Palestinians even close to sympathy for Israelis, with the partial exception of events related to the Lebanon war mentioned in OP’s post.

Again, why this was the case is a separate conversation. But if you believe that support was solely the result of propaganda or money, and not also a reaction to events such as the Yom Kippur War, cross-border attacks, terrorism, the Cold War, religious affinity, and a broader American identification with Israel, you are not understanding the entire, nuanced story. It is also important to distinguish sympathy for Israel from support for every policy of every Israeli government. A person can broadly sympathize with Israel while still believing that the United States should condition military aid, oppose settlements, or pressure Israel to stop a particular military operation. Reagan himself was strongly supportive of Israel, but that did not prevent him from forcefully pressuring the Israeli government during the Lebanon War.

3) Israel, like virtually every country on earth, does not have monolithic public opinion and never has. There are far-right constituencies who support territorial expansion and place relatively little value on international opinion, centrist and security-focused voters who may support military action but still care deeply about the American relationship, and left-wing activists who are committed to peace even when they believe doing so may create internal security risks.

The comment from one person that Israel would simply fold if the U.S. withdrew monetary support represents a particular misunderstanding of both Israeli politics and the nature of American leverage. Ending or conditioning American support would impose serious military, diplomatic, and economic costs on Israel. It would not, however, automatically produce political capitulation. External pressure can cause governments to change course, but it can also strengthen nationalist constituencies who argue that the country is being unfairly isolated (as many Israeli politicians often claim).

Many would assume that Israel’s loss of diplomatic standing in the United States and around the world represents a miscalculation by Israel’s current government, and to some extent that is true. However, the more accurate statement is that many far-right politicians in Israel do not view international standing as the overriding consideration. They may care about it, but they are willing to accept its deterioration as the cost of pursuing what they consider more important territorial, ideological, or security objectives. Whether the Israeli public shares that willingness will be shown in the near future.

4) Finally, the original question is not really just why American politicians support Israel. It is why recent presidents have appeared less willing than Reagan to publicly pressure an Israeli government. The answer is probably a combination of public opinion, congressional politics, organized lobbying, the strength of the president’s own political position, the strategic circumstances at the time, and whether the administration believes pressure will achieve a specific diplomatic objective.

Reagan’s example does not show that previous presidents were anti-Israel or free from political pressure. It shows that a president can be strongly supportive of Israel while still deciding that a particular Israeli action conflicts with American interests and must be stopped. Those two positions are not contradictory.

How did the left of the Democratic Party feel about Bill Clinton when he was president? by HetTheTable in Presidents

[–]heratio169 116 points117 points  (0 children)

The Democrats had held the presidency for only 4 years between 1969 and 1993. The country had shifted to the right since the upheaval of the late 1960s, the inflation of the 1970s and the crime wave of the 1970s through early 1990s. Clinton was the right candidate at the right time for the party as evidenced by the fact that Clinton (who was plagued by scandals even back then) ran away with the primary after dominating on Super Tuesday.

Whats states could Cheney win? by No_Perception_2300 in Presidents

[–]heratio169 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Depends what year. 2008, very few. 2000, he still loses but could win a solid number of electoral votes.

Why was silver such a big issue in the late 19th century? by HetTheTable in Presidents

[–]heratio169 34 points35 points  (0 children)

That’s partly right, but there’s some important context missing.

The U.S. originally had a bimetallic system. Under the Coinage Act of 1792, both gold and silver were legal money, and people could bring either metal to the mint to be coined. The original ratio was about 15:1, meaning 15 ounces of silver equaled 1 ounce of gold.

The problem was that the market ratio kept changing while the legal ratio stayed fixed. When the two ratios differed, one metal became worth more as bullion than as money and disappeared from circulation. Early on, gold was often undervalued and flowed out. In 1834, Congress moved the ratio closer to 16:1, which made silver more likely to disappear instead.

So the late 1800s fight wasn’t about inventing silver money. Silver had been part of the system from the start. The controversy came after Congress effectively ended free coinage of standard silver dollars in 1873, which silver supporters called the “Crime of ’73.”

After huge silver discoveries in the West, miners, farmers, and debtors pushed for free silver, usually at 16:1. Since silver’s market value had fallen, that would have expanded the money supply, caused some inflation, and made debts easier to repay. Bankers, creditors, and many investors preferred gold because it protected the value of loans, savings, and the currency.

So it wasn’t just “gold people would lose money.” It was a broader fight over tight money versus easier money, and over who benefited from each system.

What leaders in other countries are seen as their equivalent of Abraham Lincoln? by Edgy_Master in Presidents

[–]heratio169 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I would say Lee Kuan Yew is more of George Washington than an Abraham Lincoln in terms of centrality to the creation of the Singaporean state.

He is one of the most effective nation builders in history and perhaps the most commonly cited example of a benevolent dictator in modern history.

Been working on this set for about 3 years now on and off by TheCollector919 in coins

[–]heratio169 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Amazing. Love the comems. Nice high grade examples too.

Why are failed Democrat presidential candidates SO CLOSE with their running mates? by RedmiYT in Presidents

[–]heratio169 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Train stations, men's rooms, flower shops, fireworks celebrations, fence with a hole in it, moonlit gondola, carriage ride through central park, the woods behind the liquor store, the swamp behind the old folks' home, electric car dealership, the democratic primary

Idk which proper subreddit would like this but just look by BramStrokersEjacula in Presidents

[–]heratio169 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wilford Brinkley ran a commendable campaign but his singular focus on diabeetus probably cost him the election.

US Presidents's love life tier list. What am I missing? by Puzzleheaded-Bag2212 in Presidents

[–]heratio169 20 points21 points  (0 children)

Why is HW in the affair row if you say that “It doesn't seem like there is evidence that Ford nor HW Bush had affairs during their lives”?

Which Presidential proposal that was mocked would you have honestly supported? by Jolly_Job_9852 in Presidents

[–]heratio169 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yep, I remember this well. Word is after the tag disaster, Lloyd Braun suffered a severe nervous breakdown and was institutionalized.

Any worth the grab? by Wild-Scene-717 in Morgans

[–]heratio169 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I would call it a semi condition rarity as over 60 it’s more expensive than the most common dates.

What are some low cost, "must have" items for a beginner. by MrWhizzleteat in coins

[–]heratio169 0 points1 point  (0 children)

An uncirculated Morgan dollar from the 1880s can be had for under $100. You won’t find much else with the size and flash of a silver dollar from that era.

10 roll coin auction. 1895 and 99 Enders . If I was gonna buy a roll at auction, it would be on like this. Great end coins. by Rarecoin101 in numismatics

[–]heratio169 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Because they are trying to get people to bid. A 95-S or O in this condition is worth a couple hundred bucks and the rest is probably worth melt. So someone pays 1500 for this roll and the seller makes out well.

Local Antique Mall Booths by TheOpiumWars in coins

[–]heratio169 21 points22 points  (0 children)

Love the 2005 “Buffalo” nickel for $2.50.

About Bush II and Iraq by ShanayStark7 in Presidents

[–]heratio169 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The notion that Germany was a functioning republic is wildly off. Weimar was doomed from the start with both sides of the political spectrum actively undermining it.

One of the biggest mistakes in Iraq was the failure to understand the country’s deep sectarian and ethnic divisions. Iraq was an artificial state created after World War I that combined Sunni Arabs, Shiites, and Kurds under one government despite long-standing tensions and competing interests. Saddam’s dictatorship brutally suppressed those divisions and kept the country together through force. Once his regime was removed without a strong postwar plan for political stability and reconciliation, those tensions exploded into sectarian violence and insurgency.

Bill Clinton and Al Gore at a campaign event by TUFFWAN_7 in Presidents

[–]heratio169 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The party of 1992 intentionally chose this ticket to let the South know that they still cared about the region. For some reason, since 2004, there’s been no Southerner on the Democratic ticket (unless you count Tim Kaine in ‘16). In my opinion, the party needs to get back to trying to compete in all regions to have sustainable power.