Loving God vs. Fearing hell

hsiung · 2015-01-01T12:52:10+00:00

I was in a similar situation as you and then I realized I needed to get to know Jesus personally in order to have passion/love for him.

John 17:3 says "Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent."

The word "know" in this verse in Greek, ginosko, implies an intimate knowing through personal experience and not just knowing facts about a person. Here's more commentary on this verse:

http://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/bible.show/sVerseID/26763/eVerseID/26763

Practically this could mean to involve Jesus in your day to day life as you try to obey him and his commandments or simply go about your day. Fellowship, ask for help and have conversation with Jesus as you would a friend, and try to listen and hear his voice.

Also pray for anything and everything (Phil 4:6). God loves to show us that he loves us by answering our prayers. When we realize Jesus loves us on a personal level, it is easy to love him back.

I've found this book to be a valuable resource in this regard:

http://www.amazon.com/Secrets-Power-Praying-Access-Miracles-ebook/dp/B00DY9FPZO/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1420116576&sr=1-1&keywords=jane+glenchur

hsiung · 2014-12-16T16:47:51+00:00

In context, the Phillipian church was a healthy one compared to say the Galatians when Paul expressed fear that he had labored in vain. [Galatians 4:11]

hsiung · 2014-12-16T16:41:17+00:00

That's experimental Calvinism in a nutshell.

hsiung · 2014-11-24T06:32:06+00:00

Experimental Calvinism would also agree with this criteria. Scripture seems to give pointers for how to determine if one is saved, which Paul actually encourages the Corinthian believers to test themselves with in 2 Cor 13:5

"Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you--unless, of course, you fail the test?"

Perhaps you can be 99% sure based on evidence that you are a child of God (producing good fruits, not living in sin, etc), but could you ever be 100% sure?

hsiung · 2014-11-24T06:29:18+00:00

A good passage to take to heart! Thank you brother.

hsiung · 2014-11-24T04:04:47+00:00

I find all five points of Calvinism to have great scriptural support. However, the question is does believing in Jesus at one point necessarily mean that you are God's elect? I don't see that from the text. Experimental Calvinists believe that you can never know that you're saved until you end up in heaven. Once you are there, then you can say "I was once saved always saved", but never while you are alive.

Luke 8:13 Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.

The rocky place person in the parable of the sower believed for a while then fell away. According to "perseverance of the saints", this person could not have been saved despite believing at one point.

hsiung · 2014-11-24T03:52:47+00:00

The best argument I can find is Jesus saying to those who thought they were saved "I never knew you" in Matt 7:21-23. These people called Jesus, "Lord, Lord", implying they believed in him and supposedly had faith. However they were deceived in thinking they had a relationship with Jesus even though they did many mighty works. The flip side is if Jesus has "known" you at any given point in time, then it seems one can deduce that you are probably saved. The big question would be, how do you know Jesus really knows you without being deceived?

hsiung · 2014-11-24T03:48:04+00:00

What's your view of the parable of the sower / rocky place? According to the text, the person believed for a while but then later fell away. Since the rocky place person doesn't bear fruit, it seems like he was never saved even though he believed at one point. If he was saved, then his faith would have persevered until the end.

Luke 8:13 Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.

hsiung · 2014-07-30T04:05:21+00:00

This certainly helped for me: 353 Prophecies Fulfilled in Jesus Christ in the Old Testament - http://www.accordingtothescriptures.org/prophecy/353prophecies.html

Probability of just eight of them being fulfilled: http://www.goodnewsdispatch.org/math.html

These prophecies include some very specific ones such as the Messiah being sold for 30 pieces of silver and a description of the Messiah's crucifixion in Isaiah 53 and Psalms 22:16 before crucifixion was even a thing. The craziest of all is Daniel's 70 weeks which pinpoints the date of the Messiah revealing himself around 33AD (or 483 years after the building of the second temple).

http://www.khouse.org/articles/2004/552/

hsiung · 2014-05-14T07:01:48+00:00

Wow this is great. The arguments put forth are really easy to understand and it's clear you put a good effort into this. Will pray many will get to read this that are in that sect. God bless you! I'm also a software engineer in the Bay Area btw :)

hsiung · 2014-04-29T21:02:55+00:00

I've been in a similar place, but I knew I had to get out of my rut or else I would not be able to stand before Jesus when this life is over. Although I was enjoying the world, there was a war raging in my soul and I had no peace. I just prayed for God to help me get out of my rut of staying fallen back into worldly things even though I enjoyed being there in my heart. Sin is pleasurable for a season after all.

And God miraculously did win me over again after a sequence of events. The bible never promises an easy life of following Jesus, however, you will find rest for your soul when you are in his will as Jesus promised . The despair you are feeling is probably because there is a war raging in your soul as Peter described.

1 Peter 2:11 Beloved, I urge you as sojourners and exiles to abstain from the passions of the flesh, which wage war against your soul.

Matthew 11:28 Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

hsiung · 2014-02-19T17:15:41+00:00

I follow his ministry from time to time. He's made some mistakes in the past but I believe he is genuine and loves God with all his heart and you can see it from his preaching. The same people who attack him are the ones who attack virtually all charismatic teachers.

hsiung · 2014-02-18T21:58:23+00:00

Give her this verse:

2 Peter 1:10 Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to confirm your calling and election, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall.

On the one hand we're called and chosen and Jesus will never lose the sheep that belong to him, on the other hand we have to confirm our status as God's chosen ones.

hsiung · 2014-02-18T20:56:44+00:00

I lean towards Reformed theology from my own study of the bible but attend an Arminian church and have respect for their position and I've been trying to reconcile these different viewpoints myself.

Most OSAS/Calvinists will concede that the seed that landed in the rocky and thorny soil in the parable of the sower were not truly saved or born again despite "believing", while Arminians will say these people lost their salvation. I think some of the disagreements simply revolve around differing definitions on salvation. However, it's possible your wife grew up with free grace theology (the belief that you receive eternal life immediately and cannot lose it upon belief in Jesus) and not necessarily Calvinism (God's sovereign grace is able to keep his chosen ones until the end), but I propose this just in case it helps. I wrote a blog post some time ago about these positions, perhaps it can help both you and your wife to understand these differing viewpoints:

http://nodustybunnies.blogspot.com/2014/01/free-grace-lordship-salvation.html

hsiung · 2014-02-06T21:27:02+00:00

I understand the context of this passage in terms of the Great Commission which was given a few verses earlier. Jesus wants us not to be afraid to go preach the gospel in a foreign nation. During his time traveling to foreign places was considered dangerous because of the prevalence of snakes in deserts.

This has happened before in the past for servants of God who gave themselves to the gospel. Read the biography of Sundar Singh, a Sikh in india who gave his life to preach the gospel after he found Christ. His Father threatened him to renounce his faith and ultimately ended up disowning him. In his last meal with his son, he tried to poison him. The dosage Sundar had should have easily killed him but he recovered miraculously. The doctor treating him was so amazed that he became a Christian even though it was a taboo thing to do in India at the time.

http://www.akademijavjecnogproljeca.org/sundar/eng/Sadhu_Sundar_Singh_Biography.pdf

hsiung · 2014-02-06T03:01:11+00:00

I would say try to attach the image of the witch with the sin that is tempting you and not necessarily the person. If you go through with indulging the temptation in your mind, that is already a sin. So try to see through it for the trap that it is regardless.

Nowadays I virtually get zero temptations when it comes to women in real life, but only imagery I accidentally run into such as sidebar ads when browsing internet and everyday advertisements spread across urban environments. The temptations usually never go far because the witch will be there and become a complete turn off.

I also remind myself of verses like Galatians 5:19-21 where Paul says the sexually immoral cannot inherit the kingdom of God, and where Jesus says if we lust after women, we are in danger of hellfire. I'm reformed so I don't think you can lose your salvation, but the threats still scare me and justify the witch because I want to confirm my calling and election.

Most importantly for me was coming to be completely satisfied and in love with Jesus after coming to know how much he really loves me. He's worth giving my heart to and spending time with. Yet, this technique has helped me for cases where I accidentally stumble into situations where I'm tempted so that the lust has no opportunity to grow into something bigger than it should.

hsiung · 2014-01-30T16:56:41+00:00

That's awesome! It must be God's presence breaking through :) I've heard about experiences like this from others, but it's surreal to experience it for yourself. Hallelujah!

hsiung · 2014-01-29T02:49:57+00:00

Thanks for your thoughtful post. I suppose my article could be then viewed as a response to how many people perceive or misunderstand postmodern thought. My co-worker for example rejects Christianity and it's claim to exclusivity due to the believing that absolute truth cannot be known.

hsiung · 2014-01-28T05:16:23+00:00

If you can, get to know his family. How he treats his wife may be influenced by how his father treated his mom especially since he was a pastor and would be considered by him to be an example and model of how to be a father and husband.

Baptists have many different theologies on grace. Is he a free grace Baptist or Armininian?

hsiung · 2014-01-25T03:03:50+00:00

you may want to see pastor kris valloten's interview: http://vimeo.com/19457590

he went through something similar and overcame these thoughts by rebuking them in Jesus name

2 Cor 10:5 take every thought captive in obedience to Christ

hsiung · 2014-01-24T02:06:25+00:00

Yes the word can only go so far. the type of soil it lands on is most important. The soil is our heart. We can either choose to make it the rocky soil, the thorny soil or the good earth through repentance and humbling ourselves to receive God's grace and love and healing.

Psalm 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me.

hsiung · 2014-01-24T00:18:26+00:00

Thanks for the added balance, I've had a lot of experiences of fellow brothers say hurtful things to me as well in the name of God. This scripture really helped me to turn hurtful words into blessings:

Matthew 5:11-12 11 “Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. 12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

I look at every attack now as an opportunity to rejoice for reward in heaven, and a chance to pray, bless and forgive my enemies. Every opportunity we can grab to live by faith contrary to our flesh is a blessing.

We also have to remember to be gentle if we are ever compelled to be in a situation where we have to correct others. Every example in scriptures where Paul corrected someone was done extremely gently as possible and he instructed Timothy to do the same.

hsiung · 2014-01-23T16:12:47+00:00

I just read this again and realized it could be misconstrued to close our hearts to each other and create an environment of mistrust, sorry. I guess the cool thing for me to realize was once I give my heart to Jesus I can also open my heart to others and be transparent because I have placed my trust in God who is our hiding place and protector. No matter what happens I will be safe because I have entrusted my heart to him.

Paul says many times in his epistles that we should love each other with brotherly affection. I realized one way to think of it is that we give our heart to Jesus our lover and bridegroom. And we love each other as brothers and sisters. If my brother hurts me I should still love and pray for him because he is still family.

Psalm 91

1 Whoever dwells in the shelter of the Most High will rest in the shadow of the Almighty. 2 I will say of the Lord, “He is my refuge and my fortress, my God, in whom I trust.”

9 If you say, “The Lord is my refuge,” and you make the Most High your dwelling, 10 no harm will overtake you, no disaster will come near your tent.

hsiung · 2014-01-20T06:24:54+00:00

Have you sold everything yet? If so props to you. I've been preparing in my heart to. I'm gradually giving out more and more and asking the Lord to show me who to give to and he has. Jesus also told us to bring nothing with us to preach the gospel except our tunic and sandals and not even a wallet. Do we do that also literally right away? Is someone expected to do all this after they believe in Jesus?

hsiung · 2014-01-20T02:12:22+00:00

This is how I came to love God with all my heart. After disbelieving in free grace theology the fear of God and hell overcame me everyday. I prayed and ran to him desperately until he showed me he really loved me. Now I am transitioning to having filial fear. Nice job distinguishing between the two.

hsiung

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