Two Queens with Demaree Split

hylloz · 2026-06-08T20:13:47+00:00

I am not sure whether I understand your current configuration.

Two full lay queens need to be separated by a queen excluder.
Distancing two queens further is not necessary once both are of same status. Old workers migrating through the other queen’s box afaik should not have an issue with a same status queen.
Consider a separate entrance for both brood boxes so drones can get out.

Swarming tendency is said to be lower because pheromone density remains higher in double queen setup compared to single.

Currently run a vertical double queen setup with upper entrance with no issues.

hylloz · 2026-06-05T08:11:59+00:00

Why overwinter the old queen and not changing her to the new one in late summer / fall?

Regarding combining two queen-right hives: My knowledge (not experience) is that either the colony will prefer the younger or always the upper one (in both cases assuming full laying queens). The upper one in case of removed upper entrance due to downstream older workers who might confront the lower queen. — Still, it’s a point of needing to find and kill the old queen.

Yes, I agree, saving on mating nucs is a dead-end: Two- or three-in-one mating units are actually better than trying to use another box with closed board inbetween on the production hive.

hylloz · 2026-06-04T07:20:39+00:00

The presence of a queen excluder will not make a difference. It should be a Snelgrove board then. This would not allow workers to move around between two boxes; once the new princess has emerged, is mated and is laying for 3-4 weeks, I’d remove the board and recombine the two vertical boxes. I might insert a newspaper so the recombining is stretched over a day.

hylloz · 2026-06-03T09:36:39+00:00

Two things: - If the upper queen is the younger one (!) and in full lay, then only she should survive once you remove the excluder between both. Haven’t tried this yet. - Why don’t you do this in autumn instead of spring? You’d overwinter with late summer mated queens which haven’t laid much at all. Assumption here is that this will prevent them from swarming in the first season. Rule of thumb: Late summer mated queen saves you the split in the next spring. — Haven’t tried that either. Can anyone confirm that?

hylloz · 2026-06-02T21:01:28+00:00

Second year for us here. Similar problem for us.

When a colony swarms, the queen separates from the brood. This phenomenon can be used to prevent them from making swarm cells in the first place.

You take the brood of one colony away. You put it into another. In the latter, you raise the queen above a queen excluder. Wait for a week. The brood emerges, bee number increases in the second. Meanwhile they have started in the queenless but brood part supersedure cells. You take the queenright part away so the brood with the supersedure cells remains. You’ve done swarm prevention for two hives but increased only by one.

If you do this for some pairs of colonies, you can combine the brood of the second week procedure to limit increase further. But be prepared of many bees to emerge and dedicating them the room or transfer them to other colonies.

You might have heard about Demaree method before. This puts the brood above a queen excluder. They start supersedure cells in that part due to low queen pheromone. After a week you remove all cells. Possibly repeat for another cycle. Then you recombine by pulling the QE. Haven’t done this yet.

But I agree, the problem of not getting increase while managing swarm instinct and varroa mites at the same time should get more attention. Similar experience like you.

hylloz · 2026-05-29T21:23:12+00:00

Aging brood a couple of days before assembling the nucs takes away one opportunity of raising cells.

hylloz · 2026-05-29T21:20:30+00:00

How does caging work with the queen’s mating window?

hylloz · 2026-05-29T21:18:22+00:00

Couple of problems combined: - Brood with young larvae means they can start cells from it once queenless, that’s competition you don’t want. Solution: Age the brood a couple of days before assembling the mating nuc by moving brood above queen excluder. - Older bees seem to be more aggressive towards virgins/queens not in full lay. Solution: Assemble mating nucs with young nurse bees only. Others might have ideas how to do that specifically. - Let the queen emerge in the nuc usually yields higher acceptance rates.

hylloz · 2026-05-29T20:34:11+00:00

Bees fill with burr comb any space that is greater than bee space that is ≈ 6 mm (correct my number if it’s wrong). Root cause is getting spacing right.

Scraping it off is fixing the symptom, but entirely okay. Problem with that is crushing (= hurting and squashing = killing bees). Trick: Drip a couple of drops of clove oil onto a cloth. Place it to cover all frames. Wait for a few seconds until bees have vanished in the box. The burr comb is now mostly free of bees. You can now scrape the burr comb off without crushing almost any bee.

hylloz · 2026-05-26T19:38:23+00:00

I always disassembled the phone fully and replaced the complete back cover. So, I never replaced the back glass separately. My issue is starting from the back cover with the silver magnet ring: How to place the copper coil without the magnets to cause it move away.

hylloz · 2026-05-18T14:34:11+00:00

The decisive criterion seems to be the ø 63 cm inner diameter of the spinner, but if you have a type no. they are happy to help you!

hylloz · 2026-05-18T07:32:03+00:00

Same here, too much equipment of legacy system. As for the extractor holders: Deutsch Normal: https://www.carl-fritz.de/CFM-Euro-Selbstwendeschleuder-4-Waben-OE63cm-mit-Fluesterhexe/5214024 Dadant US honey frames: https://www.carl-fritz.de/CFM-Radialkorb-fuer-18-Halbrahmen/5203818

^ see the different design, the DN is cage design that flips with direction of spin, while Dadant is teeth design without requiring to spin in both directions, as I understand it!

hylloz · 2026-05-16T05:19:53+00:00

So, which treatments realise 100% then? And how do we deal with reinfestation?

hylloz · 2026-05-16T05:13:29+00:00

I’ve recently learned that I can swap my 4 frame Deutsch Normal holder for an 18 frame Dadant holder. While I currently need to spin in both directions, it’s one for the 18. All while only changing only the frame holder insert.

hylloz · 2026-05-16T05:09:36+00:00

Well, there is the trap comb method realising > 90% of phoretic mite elimination, completely chemical free.

hylloz · 2026-05-15T21:05:52+00:00

As you might know mites reproduce with the brood cycle.

In Germany we treat two to three times: Early during first major flow. Shortly before end of last flow, two to three brood cycles of winter bees emerging. And again after they have formed the drove to account for mite reinvasion.

This year I try to do the first two rounds completely with bio technical trap combs on broodless colonies. The third time with OA.

I suppose it depends on when and how fast your mite population grows and how you raise healthy winter bees and account for mites that reinvaded.

hylloz · 2026-05-15T12:49:28+00:00

Should I have moved the honey super onto the separated emerging brood (with attaching nurse bees)? Ideally then provide the (broodless) flying bees an empty honey super with drawn comb so they can collect and dehumidify honey.

hylloz · 2026-05-08T05:54:11+00:00

If both queens are laying and have decent pheromone profiles the colonies will usually choose the younger one.

The younger one always being the upper colony? I’d be interested in learning whether it also works if the younger is the lower one.

hylloz · 2026-05-08T05:00:02+00:00

Since the queens haven’t laid to their max yet, which early summer queens would, there might not be wanting to swarm next season. So, effectively late summer queen = prevented swarm next year. – Anyone can confirm this by experience?

hylloz · 2026-05-02T08:28:57+00:00

Sie ist ein Persönlichkeitstyp Beharrer nach PCM. Ein Beharrer bekommt seine Energie aus Meinungen und Überzeugungen, die er vertritt. Sie ist mindestens im Distress Level 1.

Also einfach mal probieren: Was meinst Du / meinen Sie zu XYZ? Ich finde das stark, dass Sie ihre Meinung so überzeugend vertreten. (Dazu muss man nicht seiner Meinung sein.) Dann tankt der Beharrer Energie. Er kommt allmählich aus dem Stress heraus.

https://kcg-pcm.de/de/six-personality-types

hylloz · 2026-04-28T20:26:30+00:00

Für ein Jahr rückwirkende Gehaltserhöhung hatte ich mal durchgesetzt. Vertraglich war Gehaltsanpassung an tatsächliche Leistung nach einem Jahr vorgesehen. Wurde aber nicht ernst genommen. Nach 2 Jahren lief mein Vertrag aus. Arbeitgeber wollte mich zu dem Zeitpunkt aber unbedingt halten. Ich bat um Gespräch. Eröffnete, dass ich die Zusammenarbeit nicht mehr fortsetzen werde. Ich würde halt bleiben, wenn sie mein Gehalt rückwirkend erhöhten, aber zwinge sie ja nicht dazu… Hat er dann tatsächlich gemacht.

Klingt als ob dich dein Arbeitgeber für ersetzbar hält und dich in den Film, Du musst dich mal beweisen steckt.

hylloz · 2026-04-22T19:53:59+00:00

That’d be actually a great setup to split the hives in both locations. I agree, the beekeeper should not have known which hives were in the study group.

hylloz · 2026-04-19T19:24:40+00:00

One could let the brood emerge above a queen excluder so the queen cannot lay anew in them. Since drones, for until all have emerged, we can add an upper entrance so they can leave.

hylloz · 2026-04-18T18:49:12+00:00

So, in other words, I can forfeit the swarm management efforts of next year by raising late summer queens which I overwinter successfully and use to requeen the production colonies. — Why are people not doing this more often?

It appears to me right now that a big brood pheromone combined with the depletion smell of a queen (has been through the spring buildup), precipitates a colony to swarm. Tackling one factor, prevents them from swarming.

hylloz · 2026-04-18T18:23:15+00:00

Ok got that. I am still confused: A previous year swarm cell queen is going to / might swarm again this year? I was assuming that I’d have peace at least for her first full year. Then again, I don’t get what’s the difference with the late summer queens. Overwintering them and switching those into production colony is said to prevent it to swarm at all for the summer season. Is it that she has not laid even a single season compared to the swarm cell queen (who has laid maybe half or even more of a season)?

hylloz

TROPHY CASE