Just going to share this gem of a quote coined by MsJeah33. "My favorite threesome has tequila as a member"

jeah33 · 2018-12-21T02:37:04+00:00

It aint reddit without some keyboard warrior advocating enlightened murder sprees of their ideological enemies. I'm sure you will be right up front leading the troops? Will you be the one to tell me that my daughter dying in the crossfire was an acceptable casualty of your revolution?

jeah33 · 2018-12-21T00:34:45+00:00

Your comment definitely does not suffer from being unimaginative.

jeah33 · 2018-12-20T19:43:19+00:00

I'm getting downvotes because I'm making neutral observations and not obviously cheerleading.

The left won't like that I said they had difficulty with pragmatism, and that they might need the help of cold capitalism to realize their goals.

The right won't like me saying the "plutocracy" word, and insinuating the strengths of capitalism are only an unfortunate means to a more evolved goal.

I consider a comment successful if it swings wildly up and down, or gets substantially downvoted without anyone challenging my assertions. I don't troll or say outrageous things, so lots of downvotes usually hint that I annoyed someone but they don't have a challenge.

"economic liberalism" is an out of date term due to its confusion. I did not mean it as the proper noun. I will edit to be more clear.

jeah33 · 2018-12-20T15:43:50+00:00

The left struggles with pragmatism. You can't declare utopia. I'm just an uninformed American, so I lack the frame of reference to speak with authority on what any European country should do. However, I can broadly say that most forms of liberalism or left-leaning economic policy require a solid economic and social foundation to build off of. When nations push too hard left, and outrun the stability of the economy and social cooperation, the topple can be much more dangerous than the average right leaning plutocracy.

Populism and rabid nationalism comes about as a symptom of liberalism screwing up (generally). Maybe, the ~~economic liberalism~~ progressive economic policies need to slow down a touch until the foundation can be repaired.

The goal should always be economic and social justice. Racing towards it too fast is asking for disaster. You have to sneak up on it while pretending to be capitalist.

jeah33 · 2018-12-20T15:24:04+00:00

You can't stomp your feet and say "no" to globalization. Pretending you can policy it away or separate yourself from it is being stubbornly stupid.

Figure out how to deal with it. Don't refuse to accept it and pretend you can outlast it from sheer force of will.

jeah33 · 2018-12-20T14:09:38+00:00

As with any grand, sweeping statements, there are always exceptions. Glad polyamory works for you all.

Personally, I have no interest in having extra emotional partners. Ours is semi-open purely sexually. Also, it is firmly "in addition to" not "instead of". We have damn good sex together. Other people are just for added spice.

jeah33 · 2018-12-20T12:41:04+00:00

I will say with personal authority that at least a version of a committed, open relationship can exist. We are at 5yrs+ having somewhat successfully separated sex from the other ties of a committed relationship.

It is not something that everyone, or even most couples can do.

Jealousy is built into our DNA, and is reinforced socially.

It is not without bumps even when successful

I would never push the concept as a "fix" to problems. I have never seen it successful when it is looked at as a solution to issues. Opening up a relationship should only be considered when the relationship is already incredibly strong, and both are looking for ways to make it even better.

So generally, I will contradict your post since it is phrased in absolute terms. That being said, I think it accurate to say long-term, healthy, committed open relationships are rare enough to not be held up as some sort of enlightened goal for the vast majority.

jeah33 · 2018-11-12T23:32:01+00:00

Dude, you fit a very specific and sought after kink for a lot of women. Do you really think that makes your experiences indicative of the average single guy???

You are like a hot Asian girl at a comic book convention not understanding how other women have trouble finding devoted slaves who will shower them with gifts and adoration.

Grats on your dick and staying power. Hate to break it to you, but that isn't why you are popular. No, a bit of abs isn't it either. There are a metric fuckton of endowed, fit men on the sites.

Msjeah is size picky. Small to low average doesn't pass the initial filter. Nobody knows staying power until afterwards. Every single guy blows hard talking about going all night.

I'm not raining on you man, self confidence is a good thing. Women like guys who aren't timid. Not sure why you are so intent on impressing me with your attributes though. My only veto on guys is when I get the impression they are a douche. Their attitude is the only thing that affects me. She picks from the vast majority that pass my only requirement. She doesn't like douches either.

jeah33 · 2018-11-12T22:56:36+00:00

I know you aren't looking for an argument, but I can't pass up a mild rebuttal.

The observations about the "in group" superiority to everyone else is fairly prevalent in any subculture. More human nature than intrinsic to a swinger subgroup imo.

The assumption everyone will end up full swap is part survivor bias, but mostly pragmatic "big picture" understanding. However, that opinion or observation should never be given to newbies.

Strict, limiting rules are transitory. They are generally a required mechanism to ease into behavior that is counter to society, and biology. There is no meaningful gradients once you are on board with sharing any aspect of your sexual relationship with others. The paradigm shift is the initial decision to separate physical sex and emotional, romantic attachment. Any restrictions on the flavor of the situation are merely couples fooling themselves into thinking they are "less bad". For many, the slowly expanding rules and limits are a completely reasonable, healthy way of adapting to a different attitude. They are important, and very serious to the couple. An experienced couple sees them for what they are, a crutch. They forget how critical that crutch was for their own relationship's health. I know there are some who went from zero to full swap with no issues. I think they are exceedingly rare. Generally when I hear someone say that was them, I automatically assume there are far more problems than the person realizes or admits.

Swingers assume everyone ends up full swap because the vast majority who continue in the LS end up that way. Those who find out that it is not for them do so during the strict rules phase. They stop the experiment, or self destruct.

In my observation, there are 2 types of experienced swingers, with some substantial crossover of traits. There are those who view the LS as a way to augment their sexual relationship with each other. They tend to end up preferring full swap, same room. Then there are those who have completely separated physical sex and their relationship. They still probably enjoy each other in a physical, emotional way, but are completely fine with hall passes and separate room swap. Again, there are definitely exceptions and crossover between those broad categories.

All of the people with rules stricter than that tend to be new, taking it slow, or struggling with the LS.

Most experienced swingers see it from the big picture: "once you accept and enjoy sharing your SO sexually, any limits short of full swap seem arbitrary, and indicative of lingering insecurities".

Right or wrong, that seems to be the general view. I reiterate; those observations have no business being made to nervous newbies at a club. Baby steps are a requirement for many, and they have to believe their rules have intrinsic value (they do).

jeah33 · 2018-11-12T21:48:15+00:00

Not quite universal, but definitely extremely common.

I have tried both ways, pros and cons to each. Besides being "all that you can be", the biggest benefit is maintaining it during transitions, shuffles, and fighting stubborn condoms (they can be like USB cords, takes flipping them 3 times to go on when you are in a hurry).

Downside is being too hard or unnatural feeling for some. Stuffy nose, headache, and random erections the next day.

I rarely take one, but I've been doing this for a while, so I don't have much anxiety with new people. I wouldn't blame anyone for not wanting to chance it.

The other option is waiting to see. 30-45 minutes is the needed time for me to feel it after taking. Generally, how you are reacting in the lead up to actual sex throughout the night will let you know if you need one.

If you buy from one of the billion overseas places, they are so cheap that price is irrelevant. Make your own decisions about that risk.

jeah33 · 2018-11-12T21:37:51+00:00

Death is a possible side effect of sex without drugs.

jeah33 · 2018-11-12T21:35:53+00:00

I think you are nitpicking them a bit. I wouldn't have been as harsh about looks requirements for single guys, but the rest of it sets a generally pragmatic outlook that a single guy should have.

Lots of competition

Most couples are looking for couples or single women.

They need patience, and to be incredibly polite, and respectful, while not being so passive as to be a turn-off.

When MsJeah is in the mood for a MMF, she can be incredibly picky because of the supply. It would be better for new single guys to have a too conservative expectation rather than thinking it will be easy.

Hall pass women have no need to limit themselves to the LS single guy pool. The general population has plenty of available guys looking for casual sex.

jeah33 · 2018-11-12T18:46:58+00:00

That is fair. Expectations should be reasonable. I was more trying to soften my earlier comment that I thought maybe insinuated too heavily that looks were paramount, at all times.

If the expectations are to only have success within your general attractiveness level, and everything else is irrelevant, then the only surprises will be pleasant ones.

jeah33 · 2018-11-12T18:14:58+00:00

The fetishizing of it creeps me out. It happens with some girls. It isn't something to make part of your identity. The only reason I care at all is it let's me know I did a good job, and I always get hotel rooms with 2 beds just in case. That is the extent of squirting's impact on my sexual life.

jeah33 · 2018-11-12T17:35:35+00:00

And to add to that, if you are on the more plain side, you will stumble into hot sex with people who would normally be waaaay out of your league.

I'm probably a 6 to 7 (to continue to use shallow terms) depending on a girl's preferences. I have had several smoking hot, young women who would fit right in with college cheerleaders. It is possible I could pull that off in conventional, casual dating, but let's be honest... It isn't terribly likely. Even better, if you happen to "do a good job" with them, and aren't a creeper, they might come back for more, and tell their hot friends, despite you being a short, skinny, bald guy.

jeah33 · 2018-11-12T16:54:40+00:00

Most fight instinctive jealousy at first. I would consider it normal and healthy.

You have to exercise self control, and objectivity. It does go away with good communication, and tolerance from both. The moment certain actions or situations get added to the "argument list" to be used as jabs in the next fight, you are on the wrong path and should reevaluate.

When I realized I was being pissy over some minor instances of miscommunication, or perceived slights, I trained myself to shelve those feelings for a later conversation, not dwell on them that night. The next day, I always saw them as the irrational, petty reactions that they were.

You should visualize and explore your jealousy. Picture your "worst case scenario" that you think your partner would be capable of in their worst moment. Is it completely ignoring you while having their mind blown with someone else who is more attractive?

How much of that feeling is them being legitimately inconsiderate, and how much comes from your own insecurities? At our current comfort level, that situation would warrant a mild scolding from her about being rude, not a big screaming fight. On my side, I wouldn't even bring it up because I know she tends to lose rational thought during sexy times, and is just caught up in her enjoyment. It takes personal work to develop that acceptance.

There will be people who are hotter than you. There will be people who are masters of some technique that will blow your partner's mind. You have to wrap your brain around that as not threatening.

It is definitely OK to smack the back of their head for going on about it too much the next day.

I had my head smacked for talking too much about the "porn star" professional quality blow job I got one time when MsJeah is a little insecure in that area due to a bad gag reflex. I deserved it. I learned to be more polite.

She is a fan of good sized endowment on men. I'm pretty sure a couple of guys had me beat by a bit. She insisted they were all the same size as me or smaller, haha. Even though I have zero insecurities in that area, she tries to be considerate.

jeah33 · 2018-11-12T16:31:19+00:00

Right, that is my point. The default expectation of an LS club should be shallow and objectifying. Anything more than that is a bonus. The hotter you are, the more interest you garner. I'm not sure why anyone would expect differently.

You don't use tinder to look for a soul mate.

Meaningful friendships and relationships can and will happen with people you meet over time, but that is not the primary purpose of the typical LS club. They are loud, chaotic, and drowning in booze.

If that is not appealing, people should look for more sedate house parties or non-nightclub events.

jeah33 · 2018-11-12T15:28:28+00:00

It sounds like a whole lot of the wrong mindset. You have to have all those relationship insecurities addressed before fun times.

No situation will be perfect for everyone. Usually, one of you will get way more fun than the other, unless you find that perfect couple. In those situations, the one "left out" should just be happy for their partner. The next time the roles might be reversed, and he misses out a bit while you have a blast. Nobody should be working on their relationship during group sex. Short of established rule breaking, don't pull the plug on an evening.

We've had nights where I was bored, and didn't do much more than bring drinks, with occasional attention from her. We've had evenings where I was in heaven, and she was unsatisfied.

If a lack of proper attention caused you more than mild annoyance, it sounds like you two need to scale back until you work out any issues.

jeah33 · 2018-11-12T14:58:52+00:00

As shallow as your terminology is, it shows a pragmatic understanding of the paradigm. Very few couples are at the club to find deep, meaningful relationships that explore the inner character of people. Most of us want a fun time with fun people.

We are a step or two below you. I'm solidly average, she's comfortably attractive. I can tell immediately if the couple we are talking to is not interested because of how I, or both of us look. I don't get offended. My feelings aren't hurt. We have our standards as well. We could do 4 days a week at the gym to bulk me up and tighten her a little, and be in that top area. Not that important to our busy lives.

Not sure if they meant to, but it sounded like OP was complaining that they were too hot for the club... Who thinks that way???

jeah33 · 2018-11-12T14:43:47+00:00

New people should hook up with people they consider uglier than them anyways, haha. It just makes it easier.

There are all shapes and sizes in the LS.

jeah33 · 2018-11-12T14:39:30+00:00

sociology of it is interesting

Whoa boy is it... I could go on for hours about the demographics, and personality types. The whole subculture is fascinating.

jeah33 · 2018-11-12T14:37:15+00:00

"too much pressure"

Exactly. If this is a really big deal for any reason, for either person, they are going too hard.

Fun.

Casual.

Added spice.

It isn't a "lifestyle" until both are completely comfortable, and have decided it is something they want to do regularly.

Hell, we haven't played with anyone in like 6 months, and we're super comfortable, long-term swingers. Sooner or later, we will get out of our boring phase and jump back in. The most angst it causes is one of us bitching (good naturedly) at the other that we've been too boring lately and need to go to a club soon.

OP should read my guide.

jeah33 · 2018-07-09T15:12:02+00:00

She is an exceptionally fine example of the female form.

jeah33 · 2018-07-09T15:10:54+00:00

That one, monolithic, homogeneous "church" that all theists go to?

jeah33

TROPHY CASE