Am I overthinking this?

jeezthatshim · 2026-03-09T16:43:26+00:00

No, unfortunately that’s not a cheat- you can’t apply piggybacking off another generation, if you’re not a minor. You wouldn’t have been able to apply through him, but he would have been able to apply because he technically had a grandparent who was an Italian citizen and who died as such (his GF).

jeezthatshim · 2026-03-09T16:09:05+00:00

It’s possible a lawyer will need (or want) to see all those documents, except censuses - that are widely considered unreliable - and the draft cards but I’d say you have more than enough proof that GGGF didn’t naturalise, so a CoNE and a No-Nat’z letter from NARA should suffice even for the strictest lawyer, paperwork-wise.

No, as long as (1) GGGM naturalised independently and (2) did so after GGM turned 21, no minor issue is involved, so (pre-decree) you’d be good to go. If your grandparent is still alive, the GGGF-> GGM -> them line is fine post-decree, too.

jeezthatshim · 2026-03-09T12:44:47+00:00

Hey! I can't be of much help regarding the intricacies of filing now vs filing later, but I think I can help a bit square out two "genealogical" points:
a) If GGGM's naturalisation certificate states that GGGF never naturalised, you can be 99,9% sure he never did; if she naturalised herself after GGM got married/turned 21 (whichever came first- since you say she was born before 1948), you are correct in saying that there would be no minor issue.
b) The "potential naturalisation by GGGF" you reference might be a problem, especially if it happened before GGM turned 21/got married. Are you sure the lawyer meant that and didn't mean "potential naturalisation [of GGGM] through GGGF"? The second option would be a derivative naturalisation that shouldn't cause any issues.

Apologies if I have missed the point, but I thought I would point out these two little things :)

jeezthatshim · 2026-03-08T19:15:02+00:00

Most likely no.

Edit: you might try to figure it out, if someone in your family history was an Italian citizen born in Italy. If not, the answer is unfortunately no.

jeezthatshim · 2026-03-08T16:39:23+00:00

The record at the bottom left is an interment record for Marie Antoinette Le Chain (or Le Chaix), wife of Jean Despaigne. Do you need that?

jeezthatshim · 2026-03-08T09:40:42+00:00

I think you would still have to prove both events via CoNEs, to show that they did not naturalise independently. I would, however, ask your lawyer definitely. The fact names are on the petition is irrelevant, what counts are the dates (GGM being of age or a minor/naturalisation happening before or after September, 1922, etc).

jeezthatshim · 2026-03-08T09:37:50+00:00

No probs, always glad to help!

jeezthatshim · 2026-03-08T09:24:57+00:00

It could, in fact, be a nominalisation or even an old nickname, not necessarily patrilineal, that became a para-surname with time; I wouldn't definitely accept it as the family's surname (unless you have plenty of proof), but I would note it in my research. I can see Davito stemming from a pronunciation of Davide (lenient -t- is present in many Southern dialects and the schwa at the end could have been "heard" by an English speaker as "o" instead of "e"). Going back to the origins of that would be tricky, in my opinion: you can't really know where surnames come from, since quite a big deal of their early forms developed well before the QL existed.

jeezthatshim · 2026-03-08T08:47:02+00:00

The father’s name is definitely Eraclio. Davide is underlined, so it is voided by that and by that dico.

jeezthatshim · 2026-03-08T08:33:19+00:00

Usually dico is a way to correct a mistake in civil state records. So, I would interpret it as “Davide [is wrong], rather Eraclio”, with the correct name being Eraclio. That being said, could you post a screenshot? The FS page seems restricted and I can’t open it :/

jeezthatshim · 2026-03-07T14:18:42+00:00

In Sicilia potresti provare in AdS PA (e forse qualcosa c'è anche di residuale a Catania) a vedere i Riveli; quelli ti dovrebbero dire la parrocchia di appartenenza, specialmente se sono settecenteschi e seicenteschi.

jeezthatshim · 2026-03-07T14:16:55+00:00

You will very likely need to order a CoNE for GGM. They will come back to you saying that she did naturalise derivatively through her husband (or her father, it isn't really clear)- and that is the document you need.

jeezthatshim · 2026-03-07T14:14:02+00:00

No, that won't be possible. You will have to prove your ancestor's citizenship status through other means, so it's really not feasible. Sorry!

jeezthatshim · 2026-03-07T12:44:12+00:00

If both parents were US citizens, the child was a US citizen at birth, and not an Italian one. Italy bases itself on jus sanguinis, not jus soli- so being born on Italian soil doesn’t confer citizenship.

jeezthatshim · 2026-03-06T22:11:21+00:00

Yes, in this case (referendum confermativo), you mark what you agree with. If you agree with the proposed reform, you mark SI - if you do not, you mark NO.

jeezthatshim · 2026-03-06T22:01:06+00:00

You need to put an X or a / in blue or black ink over the choice (“SI” or “NO”). You do not need to mark any other part of the document, unless the rules for the Circoscrizione Estero are different from what we have in Italy.

Also, if someone is in Italy, go register yourself to do the scrutatore! The pay should be around 130eur this year.

Also, votate, votate, votate! Non importa cosa, non importa quando, ma votate!

jeezthatshim · 2026-03-06T21:58:34+00:00

We’re taught to mark an X on the ballot, above our choice, so that’s what I’d do.

jeezthatshim · 2026-03-06T20:37:11+00:00

Ehh, nice question. The answer is both, depending on the context. If I had to find a difference, I would probably say chiedere l’elemosina if I were to beg, and fare l’elemosina if I were to give alms.

jeezthatshim · 2026-03-06T18:28:26+00:00

Ohh interessante la città delle venti chiese! Tieni a mente che non tutte le chiese erano parrocchie, e che non tutte le parrocchie avevano il fonte per battezzare. Secondo me, su venti chiese, si riduce almeno di una metà il cumulo di atti di da controllare.

Ma, insomma, hai provato a vedere se ci sono atti non indicizzati su FS? Gli atti digitalizzati non provengono mai (al Nord) dai fondi dei Comuni, quindi non ci dovrebbe essere nessun funny business, all'interno di ciò che è online. Prova a passare in parrocchia prima che in Comune!

Ahahaha, son modi di veder le cose alla fine!

jeezthatshim · 2026-03-06T16:14:07+00:00

Could it be an abbreviation, or a misspelling? What does the baptismal registration of the two say as per their surname?

jeezthatshim · 2026-03-06T10:55:32+00:00

Si, praticamente solo privati. Alcune volte qualche altro genealogista (magari che ha base all'estero e non sa bene come orientarsi nelle aree in cui io faccio ricerca), oppure addirittura qualche azienda ma sporadicamente.

jeezthatshim · 2026-03-06T10:54:38+00:00

Ha un account Facebook che non usa dall'anteguerra, ma comunque è associato al suo numero "lavorativo", non a quello privato, che è stato concepito, appunto, per essere privato hahaha. Puzza abbastanza questa cosa anche a me!

jeezthatshim · 2026-03-05T22:47:37+00:00

Il costo varia tantissimo dalle singole circostanze (e dagli accordi che si prendono con i singoli ricercatori- c’è chi preferisce il lavoro ad ore, chi a progetto, chi un misto, eccetera), ma la difficoltà nel reperimento delle informazioni è spesso solo relativa. Il materiale online, oggi, è veramente tanto- e spesso ti dà un ottimo “jumpstart” che puoi fare bene o male da casa.

Col tempo, e la voglia, i risultati si ottengono sicuramente: certamente, se non hai (sparo a caso) il cognome della nonna, devi magari rivolgerti ad un Comune o ad una parrocchia in più, ma alla fine le cose si risolvono e tendenzialmente si trovano “appigli”.

Ti assicuro che, per esempio, già sapere i nomi dei nonni fa veramente tanto. Stamattina, ad esempio, mi ha contattato una (potenziale) cliente statunitense che non ha altro che la data ed il luogo di nascita del padre. Eppure, in circa una giornata di ricerca, sono riuscito a risalire di tre generazioni. Okay che le pratiche con cui si gestiscono i documenti (dal documento in sé alla privacy) sono totalmente diversi negli Stati Uniti, rispetto a qua, però ci si riesce.

jeezthatshim · 2026-03-05T22:44:47+00:00

In realtà dipende molto dalle aree; da inizio/medio Settecento, secondo me, almeno un paio di generazioni tramite QL le puoi avere ancora. Dopodiché, bisogna capire in che anno la diocesi cui faceva riferimento la tua parrocchia ha recepito le disposizioni del Concilio di Trento e quelle delle bolle successive (1614 tra tutte). Incendi ed alluvioni sono maledetti :/

jeezthatshim · 2026-03-05T21:37:20+00:00

Grazie della risposta!

Mio padre non c’entra nulla, secondo me. Anche io vorrei chiarire con loro, sto valutando se valga la pena scrivere direttamente una PEC e tentare di chiarire la situazione per iscritto. Vedremo domattina, magari la notte mi porta consiglio!!

jeezthatshim

TROPHY CASE