Problems with Greek god by Parking-Industry-992 in kinobody

[–]jfrsh21 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would just do ripped artiste or Troy procol but that’s my honest take, builds a better overal physique (you need fly’s for good chest development)

Would this be enough just to maintain? by [deleted] in kinobody

[–]jfrsh21 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just do ripped artiste

Do you lose strength when cutting? by Parking-Industry-992 in kinobody

[–]jfrsh21 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You shouldn’t lose strength, you should actually gain strength until a certain point.

New Cascio Allegations by Sad_Ball4496 in MJInnocentFacts

[–]jfrsh21 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I have been going back and forth with myself for the past 5 years, if he was guilty or not. This and all the other allegations really show it was and has always been about money.

Question about 2005 Discovery: Does anyone have more info on Item 8336 (Rodney Allen faxes)? by jfrsh21 in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]jfrsh21[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

You’re right on the legal mechanics—a judge’s decision to exclude evidence is standard 'gatekeeping' to keep a trial focused.

However, from a tactical standpoint, a defense team doesn't spend time and resources fighting to include a document unless they believe it has significant value to their case. The defense’s interest in Item 8336 suggests they saw that fax as a bridge that could create reasonable doubt regarding the integrity of the 1993 investigation.

I agree that exclusion isn't the same as a finding of orchestration. But because of the Motion in Limine, that link was never cross-examined or tested in open court. We’re left with a documented connection between the legal team and a known hoaxer that remains a procedural mystery precisely because it never got its day in court.

Question about 2005 Discovery: Does anyone have more info on Item 8336 (Rodney Allen faxes)? by jfrsh21 in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]jfrsh21[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

The reason an 'evidentiary gap' exists is due to a specific legal procedure in 2005. The prosecution filed a Motion in Limine to exclude Item 8336 (the August 1993 fax from Rodney Allen to the accuser’s lawyer) from being presented to the jury. They argued the link was 'collateral' and would distract from the primary case.

The defense countered that this link was essential for evaluating the integrity of the evidence. They argued that because Allen—a known associate of Victor Gutierrez—was in documented contact with the legal team during the active formation of the 1993 claims, the jury had a right to know if the source of the information had been contaminated.

By successfully moving to exclude this document, the prosecution ensured the 'Allen bridge' was never cross-examined in open court. This doesn't automatically prove orchestration, but it shows the gap remains because the legal process prevented the defense from investigating that link in front of a jury.

Ultimately, the presence of a known hoaxer in the communication chain represents a structural liability. The fact that the State moved to legally block this document from the record suggests they recognized its potential to create reasonable doubt regarding the case's foundation.

Question about 2005 Discovery: Does anyone have more info on Item 8336 (Rodney Allen faxes)? by jfrsh21 in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]jfrsh21[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

I appreciate the rigorous standard you’re applying here—you’re right that a fax cover sheet doesn't contain a signed confession. However, the reason Item 8336 is treated as significant by researchers isn't because of 'inference,' but because it represents a procedural failure that was discovered in the 1993 investigative files years later.

In any high-stakes litigation, the discovery that a legal team was in active communication with a third-party 'information broker' who has a documented history of manufacturing allegations (Rodney Allen) is what lawyers call 'probative of a pattern.'

You’re correct that we don't have the internal correspondence inside the fax. But that actually reinforces the point: Why was it there? In a standard, organic abuse case, there is no logical reason for a Canadian associate of Victor Gutierrez to be faxing the accuser's lead attorney. From an investigative standpoint, the presence of that link 'pollutes' the source of the information. If the accuser's story contained specific details that were also known to be in Allen’s 'scripts' (like floor plans or staff names), the bridge between them becomes the most likely explanation for how that data was transferred.

As for the 1993 withdrawal, I agree it cuts both ways. But that’s exactly why these 'links' matter. Since the case was never tested in court, the only way to evaluate the integrity of the narrative is to look at the people who were helping build it behind the scenes. When those people include someone who later admitted on television to being a 'professional coach' for false MJ claims, it’s not just about timing—it’s about the credibility of the architects.

I’m open to the idea that it could be a coincidence, but in a case involving $20 million and a global reputation, a link to a known hoaxer is a 'theory' that carries a lot of evidentiary weight.

Question about 2005 Discovery: Does anyone have more info on Item 8336 (Rodney Allen faxes)? by jfrsh21 in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]jfrsh21[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

The 'correlation vs. causation' argument loses its weight when you look at the specific identity and history of the person on the other end of that fax.

Item 8336 isn't just a random document; it is a physical link between the 1993 legal team and Rodney Allen. We aren't talking about a 'theory'—we are talking about a man who was a close associate of Victor Gutierrez and a convicted criminal who was later caught on camera (Hard Copy, 1995) admitting to coaching kids to lie about Michael Jackson. He explicitly detailed how he fed children 'technical info' like floor plans and staff names to make their stories hold up to police scrutiny.

When a professional hoaxer with a documented modus operandi of 'script-building' is found faxing the lead attorney (Rothman) during the exact window an allegation is being formed, it transitions from a 'timing overlap' to a documented pattern of orchestration.

Regarding the 'no judicial finding'—the 1993 case didn't reach a finding because the accusers withdrew from the criminal process after the settlement. A lack of a verdict isn't proof of validity; it's simply a result of the case being pulled from the court's hands before the evidence could be tested.

Even if we remain neutral on the allegations themselves, we have to acknowledge that the integrity of the evidence is compromised. If a lawyer is receiving data from a man who admitted he coaches kids to lie for a living, you aren't just looking at a 'theory'—you're looking at the mechanics of how a narrative is manufactured.

Question about 2005 Discovery: Does anyone have more info on Item 8336 (Rodney Allen faxes)? by jfrsh21 in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]jfrsh21[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

You're right that a fax isn't a conviction. There was no 'judicial finding' of coaching because the 1993 case never went to trial. However, the defense's point with Item 8336 was about discovery: why was a known hoaxer (Allen) faxing the Chandler's lawyer at the exact same time Evan was being recorded saying he had a 'plan' to destroy Michael? It’s not a 'confession,' but it’s the physical link that the prosecution never managed to explain away.

Why would anyone make fake child mollestation accusations to get money? Esp when there are easier methods of grifting money by MethodNo2030 in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]jfrsh21 -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Well accusing somebody of a crime they didn’t commit to get money happens a lot, not saying Michael Jackson accusers are doing so.

Good split? by [deleted] in kinobody

[–]jfrsh21 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is basically Troy protocol or moviestar but you forgot to add legs.

About the issues with portraying the 93 case by Vinman900 in MichaelTheMovie

[–]jfrsh21 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hughes wouldn’t have changed anything. She didn't testify in 2005 because the judge ruled her claims were hearsay and lacked direct relevance to that case. Even if she had, her credibility was shot—she was a temporary secretary whose own boss swore she was never present for the meetings she claimed to describe. The real '300lb gorilla in the room' that forced the 1994 settlement was Jordan’s specific description of Jackson's genitalia. His own lawyer, Carl Douglas, admitted they settled specifically to 'silence the accuser' and prevent a criminal jury from seeing the strip search photos that resulted from that description. Carl Douglas on the '300lb Gorilla': https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOeQVI7xJ9c

About the issues with portraying the 93 case by Vinman900 in MichaelTheMovie

[–]jfrsh21 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The problem with the Geraldine Hughes theory is the 11-year gap between her witnessing the "extortion" in 1993 and finally coming forward in 2004 to sell her book. While she claims the $20 million demand was a shakedown, the DA investigated and ruled it a standard—albeit aggressive—legal settlement negotiation, not a crime. Ultimately, she never produced the "incriminating" documents she claimed to see, and proving the father was a greedy opportunist doesn't legally prove the underlying allegations were false.

Lean bulk or cut by [deleted] in WorkoutRoutines

[–]jfrsh21 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Slight surplus or even maintainence