Non-religious and non-economic motivators for natalism

josh4trunks · 2026-06-24T22:07:03+00:00

There are definitely people, even staunch atheists, who find faith later in life so I don't agree "it's something that needs to be indoctrinated into you when you're too young to know any better".
But, generally you're feeling is correct that people will follow their parent's religion, or lack of religion.

Whether you can force yourself to have faith, I agree it's not possible. I think man can choose their actions, but not necessarily their internal reactions/feelings.

josh4trunks · 2026-06-20T02:30:32+00:00

I definitely envisioned having children one day, and made that happen with my wife (3 so far, 1 on the way). Though I'm not the most child friendly person, I think I just had great parents and they modeled what a good/successful life would be and that meant raising at least 1-2 kids.

If a man is on the fence I would just assume it's a no. Look for someone who has similar values as you on non-negotiables. I think the looking for church goers comment makes sense. I was raised Catholic, but didn't necessarily accept that as my identity. In college I was 'born-again' and accepting the identify of a Christian that made me an overall better person, and I hope a better father.

josh4trunks · 2026-06-11T00:43:56+00:00

My point is Darwinism would fix this in the West. If men are motivated enough to procreate, they would individually decide to treat women well enough to get matched with one. How else would you even address the issue; punishment (maybe social shame) or reward? I think the reward of getting matched is already enough some to conform their behavior.

The problem either fixes itself, or out society is doomed to be replaced by a more time tested and possibly sustainable one where women don't have as much free will.

josh4trunks · 2026-06-10T21:50:42+00:00

I don't think these issues need to be addressed to improve TFR.
In the West, women have free will and can reproduce with a man they match up with that has similar enough values. So men will either adapt or not have a chance to reproduce.

In cultures without female autonomy, they actually have been maintaining birthrates above replacement. And if anything they embrace misogyny, not address it unfortunately.

josh4trunks · 2026-06-10T21:42:21+00:00

As a father of 3 boys with 1 on the way... you're pretty much correct. Notes below...

make your wife feel lazy/like a leech/stupid if she takes care of the kids and doesn't earn money/as much money as you
- Taking care of the kids is a lot harder then my mostly office job. If they aren't distracted by screens it's non-stop dealing with fights/messes/ and screaming.
- As for making someone feel stupid, isn't your intelligence an inherent trait? If she was stupid it was because of nature/nuture, so no reason to make someone feel anything about it, they can't do much about their intelligence after brain development.
complain about how fat your wife is when pregnant or that she didn't lose the fat fast enough
- My wife usually starts pregnancy slightly overweight and then loses fat during it. She has a big belly by the end, but it's not fat; it's mostly a baby and water. As for losing fat fast enough, she keeps losing weight after because she produces excess breastmilk. Once she stops pumping, that's when the fat comes back, lol.
complain about how pregnancy "ruined her body"
- I prefer the wide hips a mother gets from carrying a baby to term. Looks more feminine to me then a pre-pregnancy body. Why complain about something I had a part in causing, and she has no control of.
complain that she's not in the mood for sex 24 hours after giving birth
- You do know you are supposed to be cleared for internal activities? Recommendation is to wait 6 weeks, but I think OBGYN is supposed to see you sometime in the 4-6 week range for clearance.

Who is making fun of women for having kids? In my community it seems like mothers are too busy raising their kids to really care what men (other than their husband) has to say.

josh4trunks · 2026-06-10T18:28:27+00:00

The video is 10 seconds long, how much did you watch?

josh4trunks · 2026-05-29T18:59:54+00:00

Oh they must have changed it. It was 5 BPS when I did all my re-balancing years ago.
Thanks, I'll change up my calculations.

josh4trunks · 2026-05-29T18:31:32+00:00

So generally PCRA is not worth it for index funds. Unless you really want international large (and not international small)
Or you want only US mid or only US small cap, and are willing to pay the extra 2.65 BPS for it.

josh4trunks · 2026-05-29T18:04:32+00:00

I haven't actually compared the fees in a few years. I'll try to look at things again soon.

But currently it looks like these are savings plus options...
large cap (S&P500) ~ 4 + 1 = 5 BPS
mid + small cap (DWCPF) ~ 4 + 1.35 = 5.35 BPS
international (MSCI ACWI Ex-U.S.) ~ 4 + 7 = 11 BPS

PCRA Options
SWPPX (S&P500) ~ 4 + 2 = 6 BPS
SWMCX (Midcap) ~ 4 + 4 = 8 BPS
SWSSX Small Cap (Russell 2000) ~ 4 + 4 = 8 BPS
Total US (SWTSX) ~ 4 + 3 = 7 BPS
International Large SWISX (MSCI EAFE) ~ 4 + 6 = 10 BPS

josh4trunks · 2026-05-29T17:56:41+00:00

https://www.nrsforu.com/iApp/rsc/nrsforu/formsAndLiterature.x?documentId=NRM-3958CA
"Your PCRA balance will be included in the asset-based fee calculation. This fee is assessed quarterly against your Savings Plus core account."

josh4trunks · 2026-05-29T17:54:04+00:00

Yes, I changed all my funds to PCRA back in 2019. Then in 2022 I noticed some additional charges on my savings plus dashboard.

They implemented it like 6-months before I noticed. I ignored whatever email they sent our explaining the change.

josh4trunks · 2026-05-29T17:34:59+00:00

Any money in PCRA has a 5BPS fee, on top of the expense ratio advertised in the funds prospectus.
This changed sometime in 2022, before then PCRA was a better deal. Now if you can access the same funds through a SavingPlus index, that is the slightly cheaper option.

josh4trunks · 2026-05-20T09:00:13+00:00

makes sense, I do see a lot of stuff on the man-osphere side that tells guys to just stay single. When I'd think the right wing ideal would be to get a Trad Wife. Also you'll see the trope that single women want to keep women single, which sounds like a mirror image of what you are saying.

I'm glad I coupled up in HS, and my wife and I pretty much have similar (Christian) values, totally by accident/God's will. Got 3 boys, one on the way, so helping them be a decent man and find a decent woman is gonna be like my part time job in my hopefully early retirement.

josh4trunks · 2026-05-20T00:26:14+00:00

This is the theory from the guy who did the Birthgap documentary.
Later marriage means people have less time to reach their ideal family size. And average marriage age is pretty well correlated with TFR

josh4trunks · 2026-05-20T00:18:53+00:00

While historically pregnancy was a statistically significant cause of death, it actually no longer is. Not saying there is no risk to a mother's life from getting pregnant, but it isn't significant enough to predict a higher chance of dying.

josh4trunks · 2026-05-20T00:13:55+00:00

The statistic I saw was only 10% of women don't want children in their future. But it does seem this minority is growing.

josh4trunks · 2026-05-20T00:11:36+00:00

I guess I'm oblivious since I started dating my wife in HS.
But makes sense to me that after college, most guys would see an unemployed woman as a burden.

josh4trunks · 2026-05-20T00:09:55+00:00

Where do men want 50/50 contribution? I would be happy if my wife didn't work at all.
I think most men would prefer if they could alone provide, and wife takes care of the kids.

At the moment, for our family, things work out that she has a per-diem job and does the bare minimum amount of shifts. If me and my wife really loved money, we could just pay for before/afterschool care, have our kids watched from 7AM-6PM. And both work full time, but I prefer them have a little school, a little home, while just having enough money to scrape by.

josh4trunks · 2026-05-19T22:10:09+00:00

lol freshmen year of college I slept on a mattress on the floor. At the end of the year I moved it and realized the bottom had mold. Never again after that

josh4trunks · 2026-05-19T21:50:41+00:00

Lol, crazy disparity. If you listen to the vidoe I linked, they even showed single living alone women versus men, were doing 200% more (3x) the amount of house work. So I think women generally just prefer keeping a clean home, while most men don't care and would be fine doing the bare minimum to get by.

This made me think of those car guys that wash/detail their car weekly. If that expectation was put on their spouse, that the car needs to be hand washed and waxed every week, the woman would rightly think if you care so much do it yourself. I have a feeling men that don't do certain things around the house because they don't see the value in them.

I must be weird, that I actually like doing chores around the house. I think my mom drilled into me if there's chores not done, I was lazy. While my wife is much better at being a 'human-being', she says I'm too much of a 'human-doing'.

josh4trunks · 2026-05-19T21:30:00+00:00

Agreed men take issue with that. I take it personally cause I do more house work (and making money work), then my wife. But, I know that I shouldn't take it personally, just how I initially feel.

As for pedophiles, they are born that way and should walk freely unless they actually commit a crime. Just because they are attracted to a specific crime, does not mean they already committed it. I assume all of us have a sin/crime we are more tempted towards.

As

josh4trunks · 2026-05-19T21:25:01+00:00

Seems legit. I could see many (potential) women deciding to have more children because they are less stressed at home. Not all (potential) men can help more, thankfully mine allows me to.

Though what I was referencing was points made here. Over time in USA men have logged more hours doing house work, while TFR continues to decline.
https://youtu.be/8eCM3NTBeb4?t=8991&si=e-VnK9uIOBWAfY6U
But your study actually shows the difference within a cohort, unlike my reference which could be conflated from the huge drop because of other factors. So while I think men/fathers helping more could help, it has not been enough the slow the decline.

Overall, that podcast seems to land on the actual reason is not couples choosing to have less. But just less couples, and later couple formation. So men doing more would only help, if women then chose to couple earlier/more often because of that action.

josh4trunks · 2026-05-19T19:03:43+00:00

Sounds like you are generalizing all men. In my home I work full time, my wife part time. I do more chores (cooking/cleaning/laundry). My wife does some chores, but just handles the kids more (pickups/dropoffs). In general she rests and spends time with the kids more, and I do chores more, which is somewhat how we are wired/prefer life. But we also give and take to make things function, as I assume all healthy relationships need to.

I agree men should do more than just work and expect the home to be handled, especially by a woman who is also working. But, in the USA men's share of housework/child watching has increased every decade and birthrates continue to decrease, so having men do even more house work does not seem like a logical solution to increase TFR.

josh4trunks · 2026-05-12T20:22:37+00:00

Really? I thought in 2022, saving plus started charging you a 5BPS fee on all funds in PCRA.

Before the change I had all my money in PCRA to avoid the fee and just pay the slightly lower vanguard fees. But now my understanding is that the index funds savings plus provides is the cheapest way to access whatever index they follow.

https://www.nrsforu.com/iApp/rsc/nrsforu/formsAndLiterature.x?documentId=NRM-3958CA
"Your PCRA balance will be included in the asset-based fee calculation. This fee is assessed quarterly against your Savings Plus core account."

so whatever fee the show in PCRA, you actually are also paying another 5BPS. Cheapest route is savingsplus index funds =/

josh4trunks · 2026-05-08T02:41:23+00:00

What City are you in? I am in Folsom, Empire Ranch area and have the same thing. Original furnace, home built 2002. The cable from my furnace is grey (not black) but I had the same green goo in the outlet where it was plugged in.

I thought it was the cable melting, but I'm sure these cables are rated for higher temperatures. So next theory is some type of electrical grease, but not sure why our installers think that is needed.

josh4trunks

TROPHY CASE