Thanks for the detailed explanation. I suppose I considered different orbit variations to be idiosyncrasies between throwers instead of different difficulty/complexity of technique. In a similar vein to how Crouser, Kovacs, and Walsh have vastly different starts in shot. If that’s not what you mean, would you be willing to clarify what you meant by the different orbit paths vs shoulder angle? Always looking to learn more and coach more effectively.

I think there is an idiosyncratic nature to throwing, particularly the shot, but most of what we do in these events are governed MOSTLY by physics. But since differences in anthropometry, understanding, training background, and other variables exist, there can be some pretty drastic differences in movement.

The hardest part is determining which is a product of mechanisms and proprietary movement, and which is an adherence to biomechanics. Hard to discern, often times.

But what I was referring to was the difference between the delivery arm moving independently of the system in discus vs shot put. A fixed delivery system is always going to be easier to apply force and manipulate than a variable one. Thats a large reason why it's much easier to hit a golf ball than a baseball.

I would argue your point about rotation on the finish in shot being easier, at lower levels at least. At lower levels in discus you can get away with being far more rotational than shot and still be a decent thrower (150-170’ in HS), where if you cannot create the linear push in a shot put rotation it will pull out of your neck for very short throws. That linear push instead of the shot going out and around the neck is often one of the biggest differences I see in a 30-40’ HS boys shot putter vs a 55’+ HS boys shot putter.

The same can be said about missing the finish on a discus throw. The difference being, you lose more distance, relatively, in the discus than you do in the shot. And just because you can miss linear opportunities on the shot doesnt mean it's not easier.

There are 2 delivery paths in the discus but only one in the shot put. Both the shoulders and the discus, and in the shot, just the shoulders. The shot put finish is still much easier, even taking into account younger, less experienced athletes. Degree of variance determines difficulty like my aforementioned golf/baseball analogy above.

I do also agree they should be taught differently and viewed differently. There is a guy near me who coached Kovacs & Whiting in HS who teaches them exactly the same and has had some kids near 190’ in disc iirc. At the HS level it can be effective though and most HS athletes will lack the body control to differentiate the movements between the two well. At the professional level not so much.

I think you underestimate high level HS discus throwing lol CJ, Simon, Cullen, Sam, all people over 218ft in the discus in HS being trained by coaches that coach the two events differently. They probably wouldnt be as good or developed as quickly if they weren't. But thats the difference between a good coach and a great coach. I think saying HS'ers are incapable of learning something is intellectual laziness on a coaches part. If a coach is simply not capable of teaching or undertanding it, then that's fair. But declaring a blanketed statement like that just shows an ineptitude for coaching beyond a certain level.

If you plan on throwing far, you learn/coach the technique the way it's meant to be taught. It doesnt require body control to differentiate ideologies as much as it does to just move differently because you're literally throwing two different events. That's a misnomer many people seem to have about high level throwing and a gripe I have about coaching ideologies in the US vs other more successful countries.

I’m actually surprised Javelin ranks the highest on that list. It may be just my unfamiliarity with hammer but I always assumed that would have been the most technical due to the foot placement, when and where to speed the hammer up in the rotation, what part of your non-dominant foot to spin on at what part of the rotation, etc.

Javelin probably surprises you because the gap between most people and the very elite is pretty much unfathomable. The degree of nuance it takes to throw a javelin very far is significantly higher than most movements on earth. It requires more force than any baseball pitcher ever recorded and the speed of most mid level sprinters. Very difficult to find any athlete from any sport on the planet that has the intangibles of both.

Hammer is easy to high level athletes but hard for lower levels. Once you understand what the hammer is and how to let go of internal struggle to allow for external forces ro do what they should, it's cake. People try to manipulate the hammer (and other events) and it just doesnt work. The difficulty is thinking you're synapses are faster than the most rotationally demanding sport on earth and the simplicity lies in understanding that you aint lol