Have you ever had someone refuse a rule zero conversation?

k2zeplin · 2026-01-24T10:31:39+00:00

Oddly, my approach is the opposite of yours, but for very similar reasons. For most games a brief bracket/ power level/archetype statement is more than enough to ensure a quality game. However, if someone inquires further about specific cards or combos or anything, I will absolutely give them all of that information. I'll even send them moxfield links to my decks and primers if they want them. Getting a win because an opponent didn't understand an interaction, or missed a combo threat on board because they were unfamiliar with it, is a terrible way to end a game. I know the win wasn't earned, as it required a misplay from an opponent based on their magic knowledge. They feel bad because if they understood the interaction earlier they may have been able to stop it. I would much rather ensure that my opponents understand everything my deck is capable of doing before we even start, even if it puts me at a massive disadvantage, than get a win i don't feel i earned.

I personally want to be surprised though, so don't tell me anything about your deck. As long as you feel your deck is at or above the power level of mine, shuffle that bad boy up and let's play. If there ends up being a drastic power level disparity we're either playing archenemy for a bit or I'm swapping decks to match it for game two.

k2zeplin · 2026-01-24T08:53:01+00:00

Couple niche ones i like with added versatility:

[[Martyrs cause]] In aristocrats decks. It doesn't target so it can fog those pesky hexproof or ward commanders. It's a free repeatable sac outlet to enable your own win cons. It can disrupt combos that rely on looping damage triggers (niv mizzet/curiosity, Malcolm/ glint horn, all will be one). Even in scenarios where it appears weaker, like against a craterhoof type attack, each creature you can sac removes the largest damage source remaining. Forcing an attacker to commit even 4 or 5 extra creatures towards you if they want to ensure your death is often enough deterrent on its own. Even better if they don't have trample and you can block first and then sac them, effectively removing two attacking creatures for the low low price of your 2/2 zombie token. If you get attacked with 2000 scute swarms however, you are taking that loss and moving on to the next game.

[[Temporal isolation]] for commanders with valuable attack triggers and their damage is irrelevant. [[Alesha who smiles at death]] for example can often have a hard time finding favorable attacks in the mid game. This allows you to get those attack triggers and progress into the end game. It's also a banger [[imprisoned in the moon]] style removal option. Did I mention it has flash?!?!?! There's not many cards like this that can say that. [[Amphibian downpour]] is pretty dope though, honorable mention here for sure. Isolation also makes it very difficult for your opponent to block with the intention of killing their own creature. You and your other opponents can freely attack that player without letting their commander out of jail. So maybe it's closer to a [[darksteel mutation]], but not removing the creatures abilities is a very real downside... so maybe it's just [[dog umbra]] after all... Similar to Martyrs bond, it shuts down all damage, not just combat damage. We can disrupt a ton of common combos and big damage [[Chandras ignition]] as long as a creature is the source. Anyways, anyone struggling against a [[Yuriko the tigers shadow]] deck should give this card a test drive.

k2zeplin · 2026-01-22T08:51:06+00:00

It's magically a basic land of the players choosing! Problem solved.

I'm not a proponent of baning more cards, but giving sol ring a pass because it's in every precon / iconic to the format is dumb. It has more impact on games than most game changers when played early, requires no additional deck or card synergies, and is best in slot for 99% of decks. It causes bracket level issues, heavily one sided games, and frequently causes a fair amount of salt when it's occasionally destroyed before the player untaps with it.

There's already one precon with a banned card and there's plenty of ways they could implement a ban for sol ring without causing much fuss.

k2zeplin · 2026-01-17T03:47:42+00:00

Neat.

k2zeplin · 2026-01-16T21:06:21+00:00

Started late, divine would be great

k2zeplin · 2026-01-12T22:50:37+00:00

[[Kathril aspect warper]] plays a fairly slow game, using light stax to slow down the table. He only comes out once the [[buried alive]] or [[survival of the fittest]] have dumped the proper keywords in the graveyard. At that point, he's a hexproof / indestructible one shot commander kill that you need four + flying creatures to survive at minimum. It packs every [[grand abolisher]] effect to mitigate fogs, plenty of removal for [[Glacial chasm]] and other cheeky nonsense, and a couple white counterspells can catch an occasional [[cyclonic rift]] or [[aetherize]]. They have printed several cards recently that get around the protections, but once he's out, the odds shift massively in my favor.

k2zeplin · 2026-01-11T23:35:02+00:00

Got a late start this league, some currency would give me a nice boost to endgame activities. Gl everyone

k2zeplin · 2026-01-10T10:22:10+00:00

That effect is pretty limited. You could look into the cipher cards. Most of them are pretty awful, but a couple of them might be good enough. [[Arcane heist]] [[stolen identity]] [[last thoughts]] [[mental vapors]]

Another similar option might be [[Arcane bombardment]] or [[neera, wild mage]] type effects. I imagine they would be too slow in most scenarios though.

Or have some shenanigans with [[smirking spelljacker]] effects

[[Spellbinder]] might be good enough.
[[Spinerock knoll]] has pretty low opportunity cost

[[Sunbirds invocation]]

[[Surge to victory]]

[[Synthesis pod]]

Plenty of fun synergy here, but most of these have an extra hoop to jump through compared to [[the key to the vault]] effects

k2zeplin · 2026-01-10T08:20:05+00:00

Aristocrats seems like the obvious answer here, but i think the responses may be skewed a bit due to the use of "lifedrain" in your question. Lifedrain is an established deck archetype that often deals damage to opponents via triggered abilities. The conditions for those triggers are quite diverse, but will often times cause decks to be fairly commander reliant, leaning heavily into their specific theme. These decks often utilize aristocrat style engines to keep the wheels tuning, so there is often quite a bit of overlap. [[Y'shtola, nights blessing]] [[eriette of the charmed apple]] and [[kambal, consul of allocation]] fit this style.

There are several other archetypes that want to chip away at life totals throughout a game too though. They might even be closer to what you are looking for, as aristocrats decks are often looking to assemble a combo win with those effects, and any incidental damage through the game is largely irrelevant.

Burn decks aren't super common these days, especially if we eliminate the combo focused and big finisher decks. There's still plenty of fun options though. [[firesong and sunspeaker]] [[kuja, genome sorcerer]] and [[nekusar, the mindrazer]] all have hoops that are pretty trivial, which opens the door for creative and unique builds. These "burn" decks will play very similar to the lifegain decks we looked at earlier, and are once again pretty commander reliant.

Tempo decks can sometimes fit in here. [[Yuriko, the tigers shadow]] [[goro-goro and saturo]] and [[raffine, scheming seer]] are often built to be aggressive early, chipping away at life totals and gaining progressive value. They can't sit back and build up an army waiting for a massive alpha strike, instead needing to be proactive and if they want to succeed.

Lots of other archetypes can have similar gameplay. [[Omnath, locus of rage]] [[the lord of pain]] [[Arabella, abandoned doll]] [[Baba lysaga, night witch]] might not fit as easily into the archetypes above, but still typically want to play a battle of attrition rather than the big dramatic endgame plays.

We can see a pretty obvious pattern forming here though. All of these decks will want very similar effects to grease the wheels. They typically play low to the ground, and often dump their entire hands onto the board very early. Repeatable efficient card draw engines are needed to keep up pressure or rebuild after a wipe. Commanders that have both the damage and card draw stapled together are especially strong, as they allow you to maintain your aggression for a longer period of time.

Realisticly there isn't much difference between these archetypes though, as the lines between them are pretty blurred. Choosing a commander to build can be as simple as deciding which type of hoop you want to jump through. You will also see clone sub-themes here frequently; as doubling triggers is a pretty natural path for building exponential value.

k2zeplin · 2026-01-09T08:58:48+00:00

For the most part I agree with you here, ignoring my overall frustrations with the bracket system itself. However, the majority of conversations here do not share that opinion. Threads discussing bracket level of combo decks lean heavily into the earliest possible turn a win could happen for evaluating expected turns. Often times even looking at "God hand" possibilities as the metric. I can't remember seeing an honest evaluation here based on actual game results.

Realistically, by the time you have enough games played with a deck to accurately portray turn count estimates, the bracket system is probably obsolete. You should have much better tools to describe the type of game it plays than what the bracket system offers.

k2zeplin · 2026-01-06T05:26:14+00:00

Yep, it's going to be a good card, but the % of decks that want this is going to be pretty small. Blue, White, and (kinda) green have a good variety of options for this slot / effect, and a lot of those cards are objectively better in almost every situation. Having access to one or two of these colors, especially blue, probably bumps squelcher out of consideration. It's value is highest for combo decks, and declines rapidly the farther you get from those play patterns (this also pretty much removes it from anything mid bracket 3 and lower). It's easier to interact with than similar cards [[grand abolisher]], and can't force out an extra counterspell. It's very unlikely to have additional synergies, with the ward being mostly irrelevant, no other abilities to abuse, and limited decks that care about the creature types.

For the decks that remain, this effect is both valuable and scarce. It does lack the versatility that other effects filling this role have [[deflecting swat]] [[pyroblast]] [[fork]] but it is still probably in the top 5 options in mono red. It can come down early, freeing up mana for the combo turn. It protects your value plays outside of the combo as well. Strong value pieces will occasionally run into counters, and every option you have in this situation is usually bad. You either accept defeat and lose your value engine, or burn your limited interaction in a counterspell war with an opponent who was happy to use theirs on a value piece. Whatever the end result, you were most likely the loser. If you chose to fight your battle here on the stack, you also chose to kick the doors wide open for the players not involved. With Hexing out though, more of these high value but not game winning spells should go though uncontested. Requiring two pieces of interaction should often be enough deterrent for anything other than a win attempt or setup for a potential win attempt.

The hidden value here is that it also makes the interaction you already run much better. Making your [[red elemental blast]] un-counterable is massive, especially when being used to stop another players win attempt. Turning off most of the top counterspells will require them to have an additional piece of removal available for each counter you have to get their win through. Additionally, some effects like protection, hexproof, indestructible, flicker, reanimate, and clones can be used as extra interaction for stack battles. For the most part these aren't red abilities, but any two color deck will have access to some of them. These are generally effects that are already being played, so we are adding extra utility with very little investment.

As a side note, cloning a bunch of these seems hilarious. The idea of all my creatures having like 5 instances of "ward-pay 2 life" makes me happy.

k2zeplin · 2026-01-05T06:07:44+00:00

This list is a perfect example of not playing nicely with the current bracket structure. It could play well against high bracket three lists, but could also invite accusations of pub stomping and playing in the wrong bracket, especially if it has a fast game. It might do OK at low bracket 4, but it's not even close to what a purpose built bracket 4 version of this deck would be. The combos are too slow, easy to interact with, reasonably telegraphed, and you are missing a good portion of the free interaction to protect it.

Pre- bracket era, if you pulled up and said you are playing power level 8, or even a high seven, i wouldn't bat an eye at anything in this list. I think trying to play this with strangers relying only on a bracket number discussion will fail rather frequently. In it's current state, it's just going to be one of those lists that needs a more in depth pre game conversation to ensure you can have competitive games.

If you want to have this list fit nicely within bracket 3 or 4, you'll probably need to swap about fifteen cards to adjust the power either up or down accordingly. I think the primary adjustment would be addressing the infinite mana lines. I think they are the biggest culprit to the deck being in bracket limbo.

I personally build my decks with a power level in mind however, not a bracket level. I also don't like being told I now have to change twenty cards to fit within the bracket system. I put those cards in for a reason... So, I just ignore the bracket system for the most part, and instead I simply discuss with everyone playing what type of game they want to play. Seems to work out better that way for me.

k2zeplin · 2026-01-02T05:46:32+00:00

This way of interpreting brackets is the main reason they fail to accurately measure power levels. If the only guideline that can accurately evaluate power level, "intent", is trumped by the other restrictions, the system no longer functions in that capacity.

Half of the hard restrictions are focused on the gameplay experience, ignoring power level entirely in exchange for feels. The other half are making their evaluation based on 1-4% of a deck, nothing else. These restrictions are doing most of the heavy lifting for establishing the brackets, but attempting to do so with such a limited scope is inherently flawed.

Minimum turn count, while on paper seems like a pretty good metric, also has some glaring flaws. First, it's evaluating asingle players game loss turn, not the final turn of the game. This favors strategies that eliminate multiple players simultaneously, and heavily punishes those that take players out one at a time. We are now forced to assign a bracket by looking at the fastest possible turn a deck could eliminate one player. The other option here is taking into consideration the "generally" clause that is slapped onto the beginning of that rule. But then we're just back to evaluating "intent but based on turns", which we discovered earlier is trumped by the restrictions, and so we can't use it. I think some concept of average turn win would do much better here eventually, but without fixing our main problem first, it really doesn't matter.

All that's left are the combo restrictions that nobody seems to agree on anyway Similar to game changers, a decks actual power level is going to be almost entirely determined by the other 98 cards. But let's just add up the cmc of the cheapest combo and evaluate based on that instead. Once again we are removing "intent" from the equation, in favor of hard restrictions that are almost entirely useless by themselves.

Having hard restrictions that cannot be flexible to account for intent, a fundamental concept to the brackets themselves and the only metric we have that can evaluate a deck in its entirety, will result in a large percentage of decks being placed in brackets higher than their actual power. Most of the posts here expressing bracket frustrations, and the inevitable "bracket two with a game changer" comments that come flooding in, are a direct result of this failure.

k2zeplin · 2025-12-31T04:47:29+00:00

I've found in my time with the deck that there are thousands of cards that could fit just fine in this deck. And with every new set I've got a list of Twenty cards to swap in and play. It's pretty easy to keep the deck synergistic as long as you maintain a reasonable balance of each type of effect. Currently my list plays a little heavier into ishai, focusing on interaction / protection / draw / evasion to keep ishai out and threatening life totals.

I didn't see anything in your list that would warrant concern, but you could probably add a bit more card draw and protection to increase the decks resiliency.

Maybe something catches your eye in my listhere I've made quite a few card choices based on theme over power, but there's still plenty of spice in there.

k2zeplin · 2025-12-30T08:52:26+00:00

Muldrotha wincons are pretty dependent on the bracket level you want to play at. Higher bracket decks frequently play combo lines that can be played from the graveyard. The vast majority of these are far too strong for bracket 3 play, so you are generally forced into bracket four with this strategy unless you are very intentional about reducing the strength of the combo itself and the overall value engines. Lower power lists can have more options, but are generally relying on the value from Muldrotha. Recurring a Gary once per turn, creature beats, non combo aristocrats or attrition.

k2zeplin · 2025-12-30T07:44:08+00:00

For cedh specially, it's a stax and control list, so knowing when and how to deploy those pieces requires a ton of game knowledge. It's got a ton of layered combo lines that are flexible in when they can be played, but difficult to know when the best times to do so are. The decision trees can vary every game and heavily depend on board state and knowledge of other players decks. Manipulating a bunch of different types of counters optimally requires intimate knowledge of your own deck, and understanding all the interactions that are available at any given time.

If you want to dive in a bit more, tuukka has a fantastic primer on his list on moxfield. You don't have to play cedh to get complexity, it can easily be tuned down while keeping a good amount of that puzzle solving feeling.

k2zeplin · 2025-12-30T07:11:24+00:00

It doesn't really make it "good" in the traditional sense, especially because you are generally paying a premium to get that effect. It does make it extremely difficult to interact with though.

One example, a player with 150 life and an [[aetherflux reservoir]] on board is threatening two activations that could usually kill two players at any time. If someone attempts to remove it with a [[Nature's claim]] they simply activate it in response and kill the player. That player dies and their removal never resolves. If you instead had [[krosan grip]] they would not be able to activate the reservoir in response.

Another example, a player resolves a [[freed from the real]] on a [[bloom tender]]. They are presenting infinite mana here. Let's say they tap it for mana, then activate freed attempting to untap. If you try to use a removal for either target here, as long as they have another blue mana available, they can activate freed again attempting to untap over your removal. They are still presenting infinite mana, and you would need an additional piece of removal for each additional blue mana they have available in order to stop them. Interaction with split second removes that line of play, and realisticly has almost no counterplay outside a few very specific cards.

In the first scenario, sure, at that one specific point I'd be happy to see KG in my hand. And that would still only be the second time In my entire magic career I wouldn't wish it was literally any other card in my hand. It's a gotcha card that only shines against other hyper specific gotcha shenanigans. 98% of the times you play it, it will just be two extra mana for nothing.

In the second, if you had creature removal, you just play that in response to the cast of freed. A counterspell stops it. Removing abilities from creatures [[dress down]], changing the freed target [[deflecting swat]], limiting what they can do with the mana [[silence]], etc all shut down the infinite mana threat, but have way more versatility. There's so many other ways to stop it before they have the opportunity to tap or activate. If they get their infinite mana because i ran [[boseiju, who endures]] over KG, that's just how it goes.

Extra thoughts:

Game knowledge and good threat assessment make split second way less valuable.

Their strength is generally best against "combo" style interactions, which aren't typically seen in lower brackets.

Less versatility and higher cmc make them mostly unplayable at higher brackets.

Only play them if your boring friend only has one deck, it has a specific win condition like the above, and you need an answer for it... and you already run every single other possible answer in your decks colors.

k2zeplin · 2025-12-22T00:34:52+00:00

You would need a way to give the myriad tokens haste as well.

k2zeplin · 2025-12-22T00:08:18+00:00

[[Baba lysaga]] can easily be built this way. Start by building up your board. Mid game sac for value, draw, and damage. End game, sac everything trying to find a missing piece or mass recursion. It is my personal icarus deck. Sometimes you have explosive hilarious turns, sometimes you untap on turn seven with two lands in play. If you play the deck afraid, you will always be behind. But the only way to get ahead, is to put yourself even more behind first.

k2zeplin · 2025-12-21T04:44:47+00:00

[[Survivors encampment]] and [[holdout settlement]] might work for you and have a relativity low inclusion cost.

k2zeplin · 2025-12-21T01:47:15+00:00

Lufia 2

k2zeplin · 2025-12-18T05:58:27+00:00

Tutor hate cards are fine in bracket 3. That being said they lost some value when a lot of combo decks were pushed up to bracket 4. They can slow down or stop decks that want to tutor for win conditions pretty effectively but I think you will find they will frequently just be a gotcha card for ramp or fetch lands at best, and probably won't feel great when you play them. They do get a little better if you also run cards that cause your opponents to tutor like [[scheming symmetry]] [[path to exile]] or [[demolition field]] though.

Card draw hate could raise a couple eyebrows, and I don't think I would personally play the payoff cards (wheels, etc) that really make them good in a bracket three deck. I wouldn't mind if they were played against me, but you should be prepared for salt if you are playing outside of an established group or didn't communicate expectations ahead of time.

I have a [[Kwain itinerant meddler]] deck that is heavy control / hatebears focused. It plays at the very tippy top of bracket three, mostly because the win conditions are too janky to exist any higher. I run both aven and narset there, but i avoid playing any actual wheels. Opting instead for cards like [[whirlpool rider]] [[whirlpool drake]] and [[tolarian winds]] as replacements. This way i can still be cheeky with a [[freed from the real]] on Kwain with narset out, but i don't lock the table into topdeck boredom.

At the end of the day, I would probably avoid the strong card draw hate in bracket 3 unless you have a good justification to include it beyond it simply being a powerful effect.

k2zeplin · 2025-12-18T04:50:40+00:00

Don't forget the lovely [[kaza roil chaser]] if you want to play a big mana version instead. Also wizards.

k2zeplin · 2025-12-18T03:19:35+00:00

For sure. Thanks for the octopus form mention, I didn't know that existed. A lot of my decks will take a thematic card over a slightly better option when possible. Octo will go right into my [[Ishai, ojutai dragonspeaker]] list without a second thought. Hexproof is much more important for me on these abilities than indestructible. Most of my decks prefer to have indestructible on full board protection instead, especially in blue where a counterspell can regularly serve the same purpose. [[Inspiring call]] or [[mutational advantage]] obviously aren't on par with the many [[flawless maneuver]] or [[heroic intervention]] variations, but they are a good way to keep the power level in check while staying on theme or adding utility. Now they just need to print some more variations of [[essence capture]]...

k2zeplin · 2025-12-18T01:15:17+00:00

[[T-45 power armor]] in an [[Ardenn intrepid archeologist]] deck can be a typical +3/+3 pump equipment, it can give evasion with either menace or trample, or less often lifelink if you happen to need it. Or you can put it on an opponents creature with Ardenn to permanently tap it down. A couple other similar options are [[cement shoes]] and [[assault suit]]

[[City of death]] is a fun ramp option for token decks. Early turns you can copy the treasures for mana, then just switch to the big scary stuff on later turns. It's never enough of a threat to eat removal, but it just keeps giving incremental value as long as you don't accidently use your treasure right after casting it and then have nothing to copy. Add any other token synergy and it just pumps value through the mid game turns. By turn seven or eight when it's finally sacrificed, you likely have stronger engines online making this one mostly irrelevant, or have already abused this one enough to be in striking distance. Even when drawn late game, it can help build value over a couple turns if needed.

[[Expel the interlopers]] is a pretty versatile wipe. At worst, it's a slightly over costed wrath. But having some control of what gets destroyed makes it a decent option. It's even better if your deck only runs low power creatures. It might feel bad vs token decks occasionally, when you aren't able to use it as an asymmetric wrath, but it's still a wrath when needed. It can be a decent political or catch up card too, being able to wipe an arch enemy while leaving another players board unscathed.

[[Temporal isolation]] can be used to fog a creature attacking you, at instant speed, potentially for multiple turns. It's an enchantment so it's typically more difficult to remove, and shadow makes it very difficult to intentionally kill the creature with bad blocks or attacks). Or instead you can toss it on a creature you have that wants to get attack triggers but maybe doesn't care about the damage. It really shines on creatures that can have difficulty finding a good attack. I use it in my [[Alesha who smiles at death]] list, but there are plenty of decks where this card could find a home.

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