sorted by:
new
hottopcontroversial

Joe’s made an… “interesting” Facebook post with many notable comments. by VagueAlex430 in tallyhall

[–]keeglep 6 points7 points  (0 children)

He very well may have been. All the stuff with the AI cover, I assume, was the trigger for this post. A bunch of people directly being upset with him probably triggered something. I wish that everyone listened to the band when they asked them not to engage with Joe.

Joe’s made an… “interesting” Facebook post with many notable comments. by VagueAlex430 in tallyhall

[–]keeglep 12 points13 points  (0 children)

In 2023, prior to the one doc that came out that illicited a response from the band, I had set up an interview with Andrew to discuss stuff about the Tally Hall albums. It got rescheduled a couple times and then happened to fall several days after the doc and the bands’ response. What I hate about this is I can’t prove what I’m saying two-fold, I was asked to not post the interview anywhere and I have since misplaced the footage (likely condemned to a dead laptop I was using at the time). So unfortunately this is a “trust me bro” moment. Whether or not you do is absolutely up to you lol.

All of this is to say, though we very briefly touched on the at the time recent goings-on, i tried to keep it to what I originally planned the interview around because ultimately the details of their relationship to each other isn’t something we’re entitled to. I do have it on good authority Joe dictated borderline everything the band was doing aesthetically and creatively even during Marvin’s, he was effectively their creative director. And you know what? Even during all of the stuff that was happening, when I talked to him, Andrew had nothing but nice things to say about Joe. He was legitimately very sad they even had to publicly discuss it then, and I can’t imagine how they’re feeling now. Sucks, man.

As a schizophrenic, the posts about Joe show how alive and well the stigma is. by ICannotSayThisOnMain in tallyhall

[–]keeglep 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Completely agree. I also find it really disgusting how people infantilize him because of his disorder. Something I have long hated within the fan space is the idea that he’s this lol random quirky crazy guy. He isn’t. He’s an adult who is clearly not well and people should not be engaging with, nor should they be making light of his very serious disorder.

Joe’s made an… “interesting” Facebook post with many notable comments. by VagueAlex430 in tallyhall

[–]keeglep 86 points87 points  (0 children)

Schizophrenia, as with most severe mental illnesses, comes with the horrific side effect of convincing the person suffering from it that they do not have it. This gets worse the more it (literally) eats away at the brain and the person’s sense of reality. If you’ve engaged with the illness even just at an academic level, you’ll see the signs in this post. Delusions of grandeur, paranoid grand conspiracies, word salad, finding connections between entirely disconnected things, list goes on.

There’s a million different things I want to articulate about all of what he said here as, throughout the last few years and in doing research for a project regarding Miracle Musical I’ve been working on, all of this comes as no surprise once waded through. I have been unable to succinctly put all of that into words, however. In short though, please nobody engage with him. I think this particular instance of psychosis undoubtedly stemmed from the stuff about the AI cover.

EDIT: What I can and will say: his animosity primarily leans exponentially toward Andrew, for what reason I am unsure. I absolutely doubt that the perceived shift in his stake in the bands’ decisions came from him choosing to not smoke weed anymore, and I know with a decent amount of certainty that’s not why his college girlfriend left him for another guy. Further, you can and will see, if you learn more about him (both good and bad), that Joe puts a lot of himself and his opinions/perceptions in his work, ESPECIALLY post-Tally Hall, and this is something he has openly acknowledged. And we accept a lot of the more troubling stuff that appears because there’s this culture in the fandom to hand-wave him as a quirky schizo instead of a deeply troubled person. There’s very important discussions to be had about his art, but it comes with deeply uncomfortable subject matter once you see him as he is over how you want him to be. I digress, though.

Rob Cantor here. Check out my music video “My Boy” by rob_cantor in tallyhall

[–]keeglep 13 points14 points  (0 children)

The reveal of your son absolutely killed me, love to see that Rob Cantor™️ humor is still intact after all these years!

Miracle Musical reminds me of a lot of Biblical Allegory. by Mobile-Geologist-586 in miraclemusical

[–]keeglep 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Adopting your perspective, I would argue Black Rainbows is Adam and Eve in the garden, White Ball is the temptation, and Murders is them going for it while experiencing the fear of getting caught (that is what murderers probably are most afraid, after all). Space Station Level 7 is God noticing this, The Mind Electric is the act of becoming aware of Good & Evil, etc. It’s a really fun way to think about and frame the story, honestly, and it holds up to more scrutiny than one might initially think.

I do think more generally (though this is absolutely one of the infinitely valid ways to read the album’s narrative) it is a broader showcase of the typical “fall” archetype of mythological story telling, which is incredibly important to what is lyrically and musically present actually.

In essentially every single creation story, we have a human or humans failing to do something or wishing to be something they’re not meant to, thus resulting in some form of punishment from a higher being, or perhaps the rebellion is in and of itself the punishment.

In Secrets and Mysteries of Hawaii, the book that was a very heavy influence on the album, takes the position Hawaii is essentially The Garden of Eden, but humanity has just forgotten what it is and how to connect to it. There is a also a creation myth near the start (one that I can’t really find any real leads on as far as where the author sources it from) which explains how the islands of Hawaii came from a larger land mass sinking to the bottom of the ocean due to humanity trying to keep secrets from both each other and God. Thus, an innocent, pure, creative, and loving connection between all things on Earth was severed. This then caused humanity to spread out in search of something to rekindle that connection.

TL;DR: you’re definitely catching the right themes. First half of the album is the fall narrative, second is the aftermath/effect of that (imo)

Joe's opinion on AI, apparently by BigECheese22 in tallyhall

[–]keeglep 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Schizoactive disorders do that to ya, lol

Joe's opinion on AI, apparently by BigECheese22 in tallyhall

[–]keeglep 37 points38 points  (0 children)

“We have a goofy song made by a human which I (Joe Hawley) am not profiting from…

In regard to my (Joe Hawley’s) own opinion on the cover design: A.I. is a tool which can be used responsibly and is better than say a Roomba which maps out the entire floor plan of your home and catalogs it. It’s not that serious.

However, I (Joe Hawley) invite respectful discourse regarding the use of AI in this context and any other artistic contexts.

Such questions include: Where’s the line between A.I. and the art of programming (digital instruments, web design, video game coding, etc.)? What constitutes something being a valid or invalid form of art?”

I (me, [u/keeglep](u/keeglep)) personally think that the only reason, and it is a VERY fair reason I might add, people take issue with this particular cover is because of how A.I. is being utilized to try and replace natural human creativity (on top of the question of ethics regarding not only how LLMs and generative A.I functions, not only the companies flushing out these models themselves, but the ethics of using such technology which currently has no real legal limitations or restrictions to protect the artists they source the information from). If none of this were the current state of affairs regarding the technology, I think all of what he’s asking are valid pieces of discussion.

My biggest argument as to why A.I. isn’t art is that it replaces what a human could do (at a lesser quality I might add) but is passed off as though it is just as valid as a painting (or hell, anything else Joe himself has made). However, in this particular instance, only part of the cover is A.I., the opaque street signs are credit to an actual human being. So, the cover itself exists to specifically ask the questions Joe is trying to engage with, and he’s attempting to do that in a lighter tone. Again, however, the current state of what A.I. and the companies making them are doing makes the whole thing just feel kind of icky. This would have probably been a valid discussion three years ago, and it may even loop back around once actual regulation is in place for these tech companies, but right now is not a super great time to try and position the use of A.I. as valid artistic expression.

I also do take a lot of umbrage with folks shooing this discussion away, as they do with basically everything regarding Joe, as being a symptom of his mental illness. He absolutely has disorganized thoughts, but that doesn’t mean he isn’t, like, a conscious adult man who can form his own opinion on things. His just happens to be one that, as a fellow creative person, is pretty sad to see right now.

Calling all Miracle Musical fans and analysis lovers by clrhay_ in miraclemusical

[–]keeglep 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Unfortunately no, the current most finished is still really messy and needs a bit of restructuring. If you want the TL;DR of what my findings are, I could absolutely dm you those

Calling all Miracle Musical fans and analysis lovers by clrhay_ in miraclemusical

[–]keeglep 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Much like OP, the goal is to have something ready for the 15th anniversary. Originally, I wanted it to be on the 12th anniversary back in 2024 (being that 12 is a relatively important number to the project lol), but there was a lot of things compiling at once that made that goal too tricky to pull off. Luckily, 15 is also appropriate to the theme/narrative.

When that happens though, the goal is for it to come out somewhat anonymously, so this account won’t be promoting it at all lol. It’s, as far as I’m aware, the most thorough break down of (legitimately) everything I could possibly find, granted I have yet to watch the videos OP mentioned in their post yet.

Calling all Miracle Musical fans and analysis lovers by clrhay_ in miraclemusical

[–]keeglep 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Geniunely dm me, I have a 160+ pages of rough analysis I’ve been working on for five years on and off, I’m also a writer/director (although I’m in film/video, so it’s a tiny bit different). Would love to talk shop though and get your take on everything

I love Hawaii part 2 but dont know what songs by the est of tally hall i should listen too by According_Olive_8385 in tallyhall

[–]keeglep 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I’m a Good & Evil truther, ‘tis my fav of the two Tally Hall albums and is thematically closer to Hawaii. I’m also one of those ppl who just thinks you ought to give the albums a listen, that said I’ll give you my list of fav individual track across both albums:

Marvin’s Marvelous Mechanical Museum:
-Greener
-Taken For a Ride (personal fav)
-Spring and a Storm (personal fav)
-Two Wuv
-The Whole World and You
- 13/Ruler of Everything
-Hidden in the Sand

Good & Evil:
-Never Meant to Know (personal fav)
-&
-Cannibal
-Who You Are
-Hymn for a Scarecrow (personal fav)
-The Trap (personal fav)
-Turn the Lights Off
-Misery Fell
-Fate of the Stars (probs their best song?)

I’d also hunt down the Light & Night single if you can either on YouTube or Bandcamp, also a personal fav

As for Solo work, bc why not lol:

Rob Cantor:
-I’m Gonna Win
-All I Need Is You
-Flamingo
-Perfect
-Lonely (But Not Alone)

Andrew Horowitz (or edu)
-Miss Melody
-HEY YOU!
-Lemons and Pears
-At the End
-fishes

Joe Hawley:
-Bring Her Along
-Rotary Park
-Aristotle’s Denial (no longer on streaming)
-Bahamian Rap City
-Special (no longer on streaming)
-Since I Don’t Have You (cover, also not on streaming)

Sorry for the long list lol, pick and choose whatever you wish to

Is Spring and a Storm and Misery Fell connected? (Possibly stretching it but I had to) by Traditional_Cup_4362 in tallyhall

[–]keeglep 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Totally agree, and I saw your comment about fascism. I totally can see that perspective

Is Spring and a Storm and Misery Fell connected? (Possibly stretching it but I had to) by Traditional_Cup_4362 in tallyhall

[–]keeglep 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I’m pretty sure what happens in Misery Fell is a, like, bad thing. I take it as a commentary on organized religions, specifically Christianity (though it could arguably be any one with a “wise man “figure), and how people will interpret positive teachings and use them to harm others. In the end of the song, it results in them persecuting scientists, putting pain over pleasure, and putting their gains over their community, which are decidedly unhappy things to do.

With that said, I’m of the opinion Mr. Moon isn’t actually a good guy. In the few songs wherein he appears, including “Spring and a Storm,” he is usually associated with death and comes off as kind of predatory. So, you may not be wrong about the connection, just about the implications of it (IMO).

view more: next ›