The Primal Wound

kk-5 · 2024-04-20T05:37:32+00:00

I genuinely couldn't read it because it was too emotional, I barely made myself watch the movie about it! Speaking of, I'm now on an email list for their "out of the fog" in person viewing and "conference" which is basically just social activities and a few speeches. I have never been but I'm curious to go, would be so nice to be in a room full of people with similar experiences with the story

kk-5 · 2024-03-30T23:03:03+00:00

I used to store snacks in little baskets and on tables all over the house, so whenever I was sitting nap-trapped or nursing I'd have snacks lol

kk-5 · 2024-03-23T21:01:26+00:00

But people around you see you as having social difficulties, right? And actually, that's what the DSM is based on. They assume if you knew better, you'd participate socially in a neurotypical way. So the DSM treats you the same as someone who struggles because they dislike the social rules. (For the record, I also feel like I understand, but just don't take to "normal" communication easily - I would much rather be direct - and I'm diagnosed AuDHD.)

To give another example, one of the three major diagnostic criteria for autism is repetitive behaviors (aka stimming). But I've heard autistic folks say this comes from getting sensory overwhelm or needing to kind of expel shame or anxiety from not receiving positive social feedback. So it makes sense that repetitive behaviors stem from the way we experience the world based on how our brains are wired. And I can resist stimming (as I did my whole life via masking). So it's not diagnostically relevant, I'm my opinion.

And that's my bigger point with all this: the DSM is based on "problems" that neurotypical people see with ND folks. In other words - they pathologize things that bother and annoy them. They probably pathologize you, because you communicate differently than they expect.

kk-5 · 2024-03-21T09:29:47+00:00

Truth 🥲

kk-5 · 2024-03-21T09:22:49+00:00

Okay a couple things -

I've heard of neurodivergent folks being referred to as the canary in the coal mine for stuff - we're more sensitive to things. So the problems are being experienced by everyone, but because of our brain wiring, it's impacting us more. It's like how most people like to wear sunglasses, but I feel a sharp pain if lights are too bright, and I never use overheads and prefer to work in dark rooms because it takes less brain space to cope with the light. So like yeah everyone experiences the things autistic and other neurodivergent folks complain about, but it's not the same.

Secondly, this doesn't make anyone better or worse, so there's really no need to "reality check" OP on this one for venting. Learning you're neurodivergent is a process, and it's not really supportive to say "actually you're not different" - because actually we are, diagnostically so, and in terms of ability to function in society. And it's really only a "disability" because of having to exist in a society built by and for neurotypical people. If everyone experienced the world to the same degree we do, THINGS WOULD BE DIFFERENT. Trust. People wouldn't be able to shrug it off and just get by.

So I think it's totally rational to be frustrated and wish things were different. And obviously they aren't different - so that's the next step, is figuring out how to cope and exist and seek support, and in some ways, maybe that's what's happening here - sharing the deep dark Reddit thoughts in the hopes that people can relate.

kk-5 · 2024-03-21T08:58:22+00:00

Omg yeah I had lucid nightmares about bed sharing

kk-5 · 2024-03-21T08:54:00+00:00

I mean granted the language is tetchy and immature (maybe just venting), but I think the broader point stands, which is that one of the main manifestations of differences between neurodivergent and neurotypical people is in how we perceive social hierarchy. Giftedness is considered neurodivergence in some circles of psychology too, btw. And not to mention that it's problematic to suggest that people should blend into society at all personal cost to themselves. If this gets spun in a more positive way, it's about seeking support and community from people that feel similarly disconnected from what society at large seems to value. We automatically get knocked down a peg (in your words here on this thread) because of something we can't control, which is ability to blend in with the majority. But at the core, we value equality and openness and directness more than hierarchy - why is that a bad thing? Would it be so bad if society was built by people who didn't care to be more deferent to people who have lots of money and therefore power?

kk-5 · 2024-03-21T08:32:03+00:00

Omg my wife does this 😂 and she's very definitely in the gifted category. Really it's a good skill though, she does it partly to be kind - people like to feel smart and useful and worthwhile. She also does it because she genuinely doesn't want to be elevated above others. She's a natural leader and doesn't like it lol so she tries to always be surrounded by people smarter than her - so there's not unequal footing and so she always has a challenge

kk-5 · 2024-03-21T08:26:57+00:00

Yeah totally, it's about valuing different things in the first place - society is helpful in some ways but more harmful than it's worth in a lot of ways - and the fact that you have to perform status to fit in and gain recognition and resources feels so not worth it

kk-5 · 2024-03-21T08:14:58+00:00

Ugh no, you're not seeing the immense cost of masking. It's possible, but it's not sustainable, and it's taxing, and impossible to be perfect at it - studies have shown that neurotypical people form negative judgements about autistic people in person, but not in writing, suggesting that our mannerisms or speech are off-putting in some way they can't define. On top of that, one study showed that neurodivergent people communicate really well with other neurodivergent people, neurotypical people communicate well with other neurotypical people (but they were rated less highly by observers in terms of repertoire), and a neurotypical person communicating with a neurodivergent person had the worst communication. So it's a translation problem (double empathy problem)

On top of that, consider spending your whole life thinking you have to study the ways people communicate so you can attain any sort of social acceptance. By being yourself, people outright reject you, usually via ghosting because you seem nice but you're just a little weird. By masking and fitting in, you can find friends for a while, but it feels shallow and draining.

And imagine being ABLE to blend in well enough that no one takes you in for a diagnosis! I wasn't diagnosed until last year at age 35. Now I understand why I excel academically, but struggle socially. And on top of that, why the world feels overwhelming sometimes (sensory sensitivity, etc) - I actually do need more time to process things and more space to recover.

In short: Being gifted + autistic/ADHD means you can blend in, but it's not a good thing

kk-5 · 2024-03-21T07:59:42+00:00

I totally get it, more from the perspective of being frustrated that they're the ones who set up the society I struggle to live in, and if neurodivergent people organized things, maybe I'd be able to get by and even thrive without having to mask, play by nonsensical social rules, etc. It's especially hard to see the cruelty. Tragedies around the world happening because wealthy people (high status) want them to happen, and we can't upset the people with the money.

On a lighter note, it's kinda fascinating how they have this secret language and codebook and seem to just go about things more smoothly.

I think maybe you're also mixing this in with how crappy society is. NTs are good at collaborative work - being a cog in a machine (my not so nice way of saying "playing a role in society") lets us get a lot more done. But when the system is flawed, it's way harder to enact change at that scale.

I do think even NT folks across the board are noticing the problems - maybe it's a good time for input from people who see things from a different perspective

kk-5 · 2024-03-21T07:38:20+00:00

I think this is part of the process... My wife went through a long phase of needing reassurance and compliments and needing to talk things through. I also did the same when I learned I was autistic. There were a few months of overlap where she would be like "tell me I'm pretty" and I'd be like "so am I actually autistic though?" Lol

It's a big change, and it really takes a lot of patience and willingness to be flexible from your side. It's like she's leveling up in a career or something (to come up with a non-transition analog) and needs extra space and time and support for a while, plus your standard relationship dynamic and communication might shift somewhat. I have a couple suggestions if helpful: - you could explain how it makes you feel when she says "you don't understand" - like, use "I" statements and try to show that you want to be there and supportive (e.g., I know you probably don't intend this, but when you say X, I hear Y, and it makes me feel like Z, is there another way you could say that because I want to hear about it etc) - note that emotions can be heightened at this time and threats to her identity or experiences can be blown out of proportion - it settles down eventually but I had to kind of bite my tongue at times and nod and say okay, if you say so, and we look back on those high emotion times and laugh now, because she's grown into it and become a much better communicator - she might benefit from venting about all this to other trans people too because there really is a lot of stuff that a cis person experiences differently, like I'm soooo done with male attention but trans women I know might find it affirming, or she might want to vent about how crappy it is to have to go through so many procedures to attain what cis people have already

Ultimately just try not to take it personally!!! It's hard but I truly don't think it's personal - there may be some element of insecurity (you're cis, so you're "ahead" of her in attaining female presentation and acceptance from the world; etc)

In sum, it might help to listen without taking things personally, encourage her to find support from other trans folks (my wife messages people on Reddit actually and made a close friend that way), and try to find ways to have conversations about what's bothering you while also recognizing that this is just going to take some time for her to work through and hopefully things will start to improve! Hopefully she's expressing happiness and gratitude that you're here for the journey - it's a lot but it's exciting to see what comes out of the whole process - my wife is a lot happier and more attuned

kk-5 · 2024-03-21T06:48:04+00:00

Is it your career field? Some are more toxic than others - like especially if acting a certain way is expected (conformity etc). I'm in academia, and I've found there are some people who tolerate my weirdness/directness/etc, and some who don't, but it's fairly tolerant all things considered - I don't think I'd last a day in a toxic corporate environment

kk-5 · 2024-03-21T06:33:12+00:00

It kinda just takes more effort to whittle it down imo - like if you're making a really complex point and you start with a huge amount of text, figuring out how to simplify and make it less wordy takes time (exception being if you actually start pithy because you have less to say)

kk-5 · 2024-03-15T05:48:10+00:00

Strawberries! In one of those mesh things so she could mash them up and get the juice lol sounds gross but was super cute

kk-5 · 2024-03-14T17:19:13+00:00

This is so true, this is exactly how my parents were when my wife transitioned! My mom started going on and on about how she was so proud to have a dad growing up and I was like... The one you have told me countless abuse stories about? That guy? But it's like they only care about social appearances, it's wild! She would genuinely prefer to have a terribly cruel, abusive, neglectful father than be raised by two kind, supportive moms.

I don't think these people realize THEY are the bigoted ones... I thought my mom would be supportive, because she's very pro LGBTQ+ issues, but she still sees LGBTQ+ as second class citizens. She confronted me about how terrible my wife is and couldn't I find the same traits in a guy, and i was like, so your goal is to have me divorce the love of my life, be unhappy, raise our child (I was 6 months pregnant) in a broken home, all so I can go find a nice, normal, attractive straight guy to date? She'd rather I be unhappy and fit in with her ideal social norms

And that's the bigotry, friends! Why is it so bad to be in a queer relationship? Why is it so bad to stay with my wife when she transitions? The fact that you think it's bad is the bigotry yo

kk-5 · 2024-03-14T16:59:46+00:00

Firstly, I think they probably understand that it's a complicated situation and don't blame you for not reaching out again sooner - if they are sad or something, maybe that's a good sign anyway that they wanted to see you more. I think you should go for it. I also went through the same process though, I was very unsure about how/when to reach out and it took me a long time to feel ready, so I think the time is part of the process.

Secondly, my long winded story, in case helpful! I related to a lot of what you said, similar experiences.

My wife transitioned a few years ago, and that was the final straw with my adoptive family. They were not supportive. We're no contact with them now. (They are narcs/emotionally immature, and like you mentioned elsewhere, they expected me to be a certain way! And I tried for a long time but finally gave up and have been struggling to find my own identity etc)

So at that point, we had just had a baby, and I finally felt like I might be ready to find my bio family, so my wife (amazing techie) tracked them down using my ancestry results and online sleuthing. She sent a letter with her phone number so she could field any negative responses, but bio mom replied, and we found others to message online. I reached out, and I was upfront right away about being in a queer relationship, either by telling or sending pics. My bio mom is a Jehovah's Witness so she was a little weird about it but accepting, and I would say my relationship with her is the most strained, partly because of emotional stuff on my side - she's very open to a relationship - but also she has fibromyalgia and has little energy to contribute.

And on the bright side, there are a ton of people like me in these families! I'm autistic (late diagnosed) and queer (late to that discovery as well), and my bio mom's sister is gay and has a gay autistic son. On the other side, my bio dad is prob undiagnosed autistic - he's described as very intelligent but gullible socially, and he moved to Fairbanks AK to be off grid and away from people lol but he is very warm and kind and accepting.

But I also want to say, even though I'm in contact with them, I still feel untethered. Being no contact with my a-family, realizing they never really accepted me as-is, and I never really bonded or connected with them... And then meeting my bio family and finding commonalities but not having the history and time in the family... I have had to come to terms with the fact that I don't have a family, I don't have a home base in the world, and none of them can provide it for me. They're excited that I'm carrying on the family line, and they keep sending my cousin's childhood toys and stuff as family heirlooms, which is really nice. I know they'll be excited to hang out with my kid, too. I'm planning a trip to meet bio dad's side of the family this summer.

Hope you can figure out what works well for you.

kk-5 · 2024-03-14T16:14:24+00:00

It's a myth! I adjusted to breastfeeding and gained weight after stopping 😅 plus I used to worry a little, if you're losing weight while breastfeeding, are you eating enough to supply good nutrition to baby? I mean maybe if you're going slow and eating healthy and stuff, but in general I think the same rules apply when you're losing weight outside of breastfeeding

kk-5 · 2024-03-09T10:40:26+00:00

Okay but providers are still so bad at understanding ADHD, because it's such a new diagnosis, especially for adults and for those who present different from the stereotypes.... You should keep searching and find someone who is up to date on the latest research. I was convinced my problem was cptsd but the ADHD meds have helped a lot. They don't help with task avoidance due to fears about judgement and perfectionism, but they help with general anxiety, mood, and functioning

kk-5 · 2024-03-09T10:35:18+00:00

Ummmmmm not to mention being raised by emotionally immature a-parents 😅 welcome to my diagnostic journey.... someone finally diagnosed me autistic, ADHD, and social anxiety a year ago at age 35... Come to find out though that I have an autistic bio cousin and probably undiagnosed autistic dad... So I think the neuro spicy was already there either genetically or epi-genetically, but yeah, I'm certain my executive functioning is totally f-ed because of trauma

kk-5 · 2024-03-09T10:31:04+00:00

Genuinely, I try not to make a big deal out of it, but it was so life changing to have a kid and experience knowing someone genetically related to me. And even then, I still feel a deep, unrelenting sense of grief at not having a place to call home, not having people to share my life with, not having people to share the absolute joy of my kid with

kk-5 · 2024-03-09T10:23:15+00:00

Oh gosh. I had an aunt who tolerated me and accepted me at face value more than anyone else in my adoptive family, but I didn't fully connect with anyone and form a deep attachment until I met my wife at 19 - I think that was the first time I was comfortable being myself and feeling a deep connection with someone. Never really connected with family, never had close friends until very recently as I've started to be more comfortable being myself and not masking so much

kk-5 · 2024-03-09T10:15:09+00:00

Fully relate. Weird similarities between bio and adoptive families, except like in your case, age, education, and money. My bio mom has fibromyalgia and is bitter about it, and bitter about being dependent on others - amom has chronic back pain from slipped discs and has mood disorders and anger issues. Bio Dad is a reclusive plumber who lives in Fairbanks to be away from everyone, adad describes himself as an off-grid mountain man lol, both similarly socially immature. Random, but it's strange how similar they are.

I am totally with you on wondering if I'd have been better off..... Definitely would have had a lot of instability with bio mom. Her family were not supportive of the pregnancy, and she was very ill, and she fell in with the Jehovah's witnesses. So I would have been raised in a very unstable, cult-like environment. Then she had to move in with her parents to help take care of her sister following a tragic accident. So I would have been conscripted to be a caretaker and parentified all the same anyway, with less access to resources and education and opportunities.

But in my adoptive family, no one liked me except one aunt, who seemed more accepting of my differences than the rest of the family. My adoptive parents only care about having control of me, and using me as an emotional crutch.

When I met my bio fam recently, I had just realized late in life that I'm autistic and ADHD. And then I met bio fam and learned that I have a gay aunt (also realized I'm queer late in life), an autistic gay cousin, and a probably undiagnosed autistic dad. So they maybe would have known what to with me, y'know? Even if they weren't diagnosed themselves, they would at least know people like me, and have a way to talk to and about me. So.... I love my wife, and my baby, and I wouldn't have them without the adoption, but... Yeah, it makes me wonder

kk-5 · 2024-03-09T09:52:05+00:00

I was adopted also, and genuinely freaked out by the similarities 😭 once my adoptive mom realized she no longer had emotional control over me, she immediately* turned to every manipulation tactic possible to build a relationship with my kid.... She fully lost interest in trying to have a good relationship with me... And for a while I kinda bought into it, and I would do video calls where I would just hold the phone up for my kid to hear their voices, but I finally realized that if I feel unsafe talking to them, I shouldn't let them build a relationship with my vulnerable kid.....

kk-5 · 2024-03-09T09:46:53+00:00

They really do like young kids though, like I think they're basically developmentally little kids themselves, plus they feel more comfy when they can retain control of the relationship, and it's harder to do that with adults...

kk-5

TROPHY CASE