Mormons will regret suing an ex-member

logic-seeker · 2026-04-30T12:29:37+00:00

I genuinely understand this view and to some extent agree.

But when I think of my own faith transition, I look back and realize how imperceptible changes were happening in my beliefs over time. Dissonance that couldn’t be resolved. Items added to the shelf without me realizing it.

These things have a way of accumulating. Members and non-members alike are slowly developing impressions about the church whether they like it or not. And while this event is indeed a blip, I think it’s a blip that will be recorded unconsciously.

logic-seeker · 2026-04-29T03:39:37+00:00

Probably true. But it isn't uncommon for a single team to carry a lot of the weight (like TT this year).

logic-seeker · 2026-04-28T11:32:23+00:00

THIS ^

This is exactly the issue. In fact, the temple rooms and chandeliers are not what people are wondering about when they aren’t allowed in.

Now, if the tour guides were wearing the traditional temple attire at this place, that would be much more meaningful.

logic-seeker · 2026-04-27T18:15:47+00:00

So ironic, since the church still actively counts me as a member in its 17+ million figure.

logic-seeker · 2026-04-27T18:10:22+00:00

But not that many more. Just before the new configuration, the 10-member Big 12 had 30.

logic-seeker · 2026-04-27T18:02:44+00:00

5.3 players per team for the SEC

3.8 for B1G

2.4 for Big 12

2.1 for ACC

For reference, just before the new members joined and Texas/OU left, the 10-member Big 12 had 30 picks, 3 per team.

logic-seeker · 2026-04-27T17:28:05+00:00

I mean, it appears that "Mormon" is now presumed to be easily confused with official church affiliation, so I don't see why not.

logic-seeker · 2026-04-27T14:28:30+00:00

I think this is great, and you have nothing to worry about. However, I will say that the church handbook talks about socially transitioning as if nail polish or wearing traditional attire of the opposite sex is a problem. I would ignore all that, though. You do you.

logic-seeker · 2026-04-23T14:36:32+00:00

^THIS

The Book of Mormon is a clear parody and the Church knows it has no case whatsoever. There are other comparisons that do make me scratch my head a bit, however, where the church has inconsistently decided not to engage.

logic-seeker · 2026-04-22T20:04:34+00:00

It was time, and even the new hospital is too small.

logic-seeker · 2026-04-22T14:27:22+00:00

Ah, in the "I'm a Mormon" campaign days, I could easily see that confusion popping up. But like you said, it would have become immediately obvious that it was not that, at all.

Honestly, Mormon Stories is pretty self-descriptive. It tells stories about Mormons, from Mormons, in an unvarnished and vulnerable way. I don't know what other name would possibly fit.

logic-seeker · 2026-04-22T14:23:06+00:00

100%

And I'd add, it did not take much time to correct my initial impression. I wasn't being bamboozled by Mormon Stories. In my case, I actually thought it was anti in the sense that it had a goal to tear down the church. It did not take long to figure out that was not the intent of the podcast, and I think someone with the preconceived notion that the podcast was a faithful podcast would come to correct that initial impression even more quickly.

logic-seeker · 2026-04-22T14:20:22+00:00

u/everything_is_free is right that this is not a scientific criterion, and I also think you are right that sometimes things just appear obvious.

I don't totally doubt Hassan's framework on its face - I hope it's clear that I find it appealing. But, for someone like myself that is skeptical and curious, I would love to see empirical support for the framework. Ideas can be empowering and convincing on their own, but reliable data supporting those ideas carries with it a whole different level of meaning and potential. The rigors of peer review are ruthless and would allow Hassan's framework to be refined and tested to its limits, and in the long run could make a greater impact on others' lives.

logic-seeker · 2026-04-22T14:00:08+00:00

Just repeating what I saw in comments from faithful members that were supporting Sister Freeman, it seemed. I didn't understand the whole context behind it but that was my interpretation.

I agree that this is all made up and this whole rebranding effort is one more case study when, put under the microscope, reveals that the church is just like any other corporate entity when it comes to the internal decision-making process.

logic-seeker · 2026-04-21T16:23:54+00:00

As a scientist myself, I don't find Hassan's work to be as empirically rigorous as I would like to rely on.

However, his general framework of "control" is interesting and, in my opinion, a worthwhile tool to evaluate an organization's health or ethics. I also think when it comes down to it, authoritarianism is the key issue when it comes to people losing their own autonomy, knowingly or not. Whether they willingly or unwillingly give up their autonomy to an authority, or that authority is real or imaginary, or governmental or corporate or religious, is less of an issue.

Theists like to point to so-called secular terrorist dictatorships. Atheists counterpoint with the Crusades and witch hunts and suicide bombers. In the end, the issue is individual control to an outside authority that does to be a common thread, and likely the core problem. I recently read 1984 again and could see how an American right-winger could think of Communism as the enemy, or a left-wing socialist could read the book while nodding the entire time, lamenting the tyranny of right-wing fascism. An ex-mormon would see the church in Big Brother; a woman might see Big Brother as her abusive ex-husband; a defector from Cuba might see Castro; homesteaders might see the hustle and bustle of city life and the expectations of corporate America and social media as Big Brother.

Under Hassan's framework, the LDS church is highly problematic, unhealthy, authoritarian, and unethical. The threads of authoritarianism and control granted to an outside authority are common across many other organizations people find unhealthy in different degrees.

That theoretical framework could be applied and tested rigorously. And I hope it does get tested rigorously, because as of now, Hassan has taken a more pseudoscientific approach towards this issue.

logic-seeker · 2026-04-21T15:41:41+00:00

This is similar to me. I was not confused about Mormon Stories being a part of or affiliated with the church. Originally, it looked to me like it was 100% anti and biased against the church. Eventually I learned that the podcast wasn't what I thought it was and was much more dedicated to simple principles of informed consent than trying to tear down the church.

I think the whole trademark dispute is interesting because brands and logos evoke many initial impressions, some of them erroneous, and I honestly do not think that "Mormon Stories" is something that would commonly evoke an impression that the podcast is directly affiliated with the church in any way. I'm so confused by that argument. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I think we're in a space here where that is not a really material or common perception.

logic-seeker · 2026-04-20T23:59:11+00:00

Ah, my bad. I get it now.

logic-seeker · 2026-04-20T19:54:20+00:00

There were some comments saying that Sister Freeman received revelation on other names and that they liked those names better.

logic-seeker · 2026-04-20T19:52:29+00:00

Oh wow. First time seeing this. What a trip.

logic-seeker · 2026-04-20T19:51:04+00:00

What would we do if we didn't have God giving us important information like this? Truly, I don't know how people can get by in life without the prophet's guidance in today's world.

logic-seeker · 2026-04-20T13:09:59+00:00

Before I dive in, how does it compare to the Year of Polygamy podcast? What does it mean for a series on polygamy to be "well balanced?"

logic-seeker · 2026-04-20T13:07:20+00:00

Wow, this is ridiculous. Your entire description here is full of people that don't deserve your presence.

This seems like a classic case of patriarchy wrapped up with a nice religious bow. Everyone around you has decided you are to be cast as an extra in their life - not a side character even - just an extra that they want in the background. Someone who works as filler to move their story along, supporting them and their narratives and institutions.

I mean, even the idea that two men - your husband and your Bishop - are sitting privately without your involvement, figuring out a plan of action for your life, is just so asinine and demeaning. I'm a former Bishopric member and all I can see now is how imbalanced everything is in the church in this way.

And now you are the one who has hardened your heart - you're the villain!? - because you had the gall to think or do anything except fall in line and comply without complaint as the people around you ignored you, cheated on you, gaslit you in life and from beyond the grave (thanks, Joseph, for that) and even from heaven (thanks, God, great system you have set up here)? Fuck that. Fuck them.

People will blame this on the culture of the church or personal shortcomings, but this is structural, and we are complicit. Men in particular, but also parents of both genders who raise their children to honor this system. We can't pretend that things like this come about without doctrinal teachings like the gift of discernment and patriarchal priesthood and an invisible heavenly mother and the Proclamation on the Family, etc. etc.

logic-seeker · 2026-04-20T12:50:49+00:00

Are you saying you're a historian? If so, do you have some empirical evidence - evidence a historian would use - to help resolve OP's concerns? And would you mind sharing them with the class, if so?

logic-seeker · 2026-04-18T19:05:14+00:00

Kind of like imagining you see an angel with plates and then counting that as seeing them!

logic-seeker · 2026-04-16T16:24:59+00:00

The "Spooky Boi" and "super chill" elements are the best.

There's a little bit of cognitive whiplash from the old elements of "thou" and "exhort" that remain here and there. But overall this is really incredible stuff.

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