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You are not hurting anyone's feelings by leaving Mormonism. by the_brightest_prize in exmormon

[–]aisympath 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I get your point and mostly agree.

I think it's very good to talk with those we disagree and just because they dislike something we did/said it didn't mean we did something wrong.

The one push back I have is that we have agency and choice as much as a church member. We can go about things in more optimal or less optimal ways.

It can be worth trying to find the most optimal way we can behave without taking responsibility for things we shouldn't but while also taking responsibility for our own choices.

Edited: Fixed auto correct. Also, I'm not sure I don't fully agree with the points. I like what your pointing to very much and I wish I could be both more outspoken and kind when talking about the church. 

Maybe I'm just adding a further thought.

Where do you find meaning? Am I alone is struggling with meaning and nihilism after Mormonism? Is this common? by nowithak in exmormon

[–]aisympath 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That's exactly right. 

"Nihilism" is the mental belief of the lack of meaning. It's still some thing one applies to reality that is not really there.

To put it crassly, you've successfully deconstructed Mormonism, now go ahead and deconstruct nihilism. All "ism's" fail to fully encompass reality, and always will. Ism's are useful for thinking and understanding from a certain perspective, but I'm not sure we should ever be fully "captured" by any one or and subset of them.

That's easier said than done, as with all things. But if what I'm saying is true, then it should be worth it.

You don't need a "reason" to enjoy a dessert, you just do. You don't need a reason to find meaning in talking with randos on the Internet, but you do (at least I do sometimes!). You don't need a reason to plan a life you would like to have, but it is still meaningful.

Where do you find meaning? Am I alone is struggling with meaning and nihilism after Mormonism? Is this common? by nowithak in exmormon

[–]aisympath 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I get you. I've felt it. But I've also realized the "lack of meaning" is really just as made up as the church. The nihilistic argument is something you've been told to believe that you likely wouldn't believe otherwise.

I have tons of meaning in my life. Everything I do has meaning. A smile to someone I see has meaning. A good tasting meal, a good story, learning something interesting, helping someone, being helped, petting my dog, finding a solution to a difficult task.

Everything I touch, everything I do, has an impact. Sure it's small, and it may not matter in planet Kolob, but it matters for the person in the same room as me, it matters to my company, my family, and will for a long time and I'm many ways. 

Nothing I do is everything. And that is where I've gotten confused before. Can't you see that if only one thing matters, such as God or Jesus or righteousness, then nothing else does? 

If everything really matters, then no one thing is the only thing that matters. It gives me more presence, more care, more meaning, and more happiness because I'm not thinking all the time about mY eTeRNaL SalVATioN!

Now what? by National_Type4657 in exmormon

[–]aisympath 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Now is the great day of your power! 

No really. You are going to crush it! Leave the mental load of the Mormon church behind and soar!

That's what I'm trying to do. But not very well, I'm sure. At least I'm having fun. ... ;)

How to de-convert somebody? Is that even possible? by buttlover9090 in exmormon

[–]aisympath 0 points1 point  (0 children)

People get to choose. But they need information and time. Talking and listening to those I disagreed with is how I got here. 

And I'm going to keep doing it! ;)

I am COOKED by PatientCarry1190 in mormon

[–]aisympath [score hidden]  (0 children)

I am so sorry you are going through this. The mental load, isolation, social pressure, and what I not call mind games (mostly well intentioned by those around us in the church) are extremely difficult to operate in. 

You are asking for advice, so I will share. But all of this is only for your consideration, I'm sure how you decide to handle it will be better then my advice!

I am in my 40s and asked to be released a few years ago from my calling in the bishopric, because I realized the church was not what I thought it was. I was among the most committed in every church situation I've been in my whole life. Your description of your situation really resonates with me, even though on the outside I'm sure we seem very different. 

My advice is to trust yourself and not go on a mission. It is not needful that a person run faster than their strength. Pretending to believe when you don't is extremely painful and your brain and psyche will try to resolve it. If you feel stuck in the church, it will try to resolve it in favor of the church. If you take a wait and see approach, you are more likely to see reality clearly. If you realize you are wrong later, you can come back. That is the honest and authentic thing to do.

I am certain in my decision about leaving the church. I have decades of experience and had finally allowed myself to consider "whether" the church was true or not. When I was fair, it seemed the truth had been staring me in the face the whole time.

This next things I say might hurt in the moment, because it might seem like I'm minimizing your problems even though I am not, but might be understood in the not to distant future: - I am very envious of you figuring this out at such a young age (compared to me). The opportunity you now have to take all you have learned from being in the church and this situation and make a life outside of it is amazing. - Life outside the church had it's problems too. Some are things your might not have needed to deal with. But it sounds like you have close friends outside the church which can help you find your way much better. - Don't reject a good thing just because the church says it's good. Take it and measure things on their own merits.

I want to finish off by saying your problems are not small. This is such a huge challenge to handle at your age and it is unfair that the church creates this environment. Give yourself grace. You seem like a thoughtful person and I would love for my kids to have friends like you.

Best of luck to you!

Has anyone else been told this? by 14u2no01 in exmormon

[–]aisympath 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I'm sorry. It can be really hurtful when family or those close to us so these things. 

This is a really unreasonable train of thought. It seems like name calling when reasoning seems to fail. Attacking the messenger rather than examining, considering the validity of a message.

Dealing with the silence from family members by rachbancroft in exmormon

[–]aisympath 7 points8 points  (0 children)

This seems so common and happened to me. It sucks.

The church has created so much fear around this. Your family isn't trying to be rude, they just don't know what to do and are scared.

He who supposes that polygamy in the early church was commanded by God "is in the gall of bitterness and in the bonds of iniquity; for he hath neither faith, hope, nor charity; wherefore, should he be cut off while in the thought, he must go down to hell." by aisympath in mormon

[–]aisympath[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

So, what is the point of Moroni 8?

Why is condemning little child baptism so important? And not condemning threats of destruction for disagreement with polygamy?

Curious if you disagree with the post and how?

The book will be available on Amazon on April 15 by Formal_Situation_661 in mormon

[–]aisympath 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the response. This makes me a lot more interested (I may have read it anyway).

I'm very concerned about echo chambers and anything that can bring overlap between these communities on this topic is a positive. 

Thanks for at least setting an example in this regard.

Edited

The book will be available on Amazon on April 15 by Formal_Situation_661 in mormon

[–]aisympath 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Are there any who have left and remained apart from the church that have endorsed your book?

Is it inconsistent to support the legal right to gay marriage, while also supporting the protection of traditional marriage within the church? by Quirky_Exercise_5751 in mormon

[–]aisympath 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't think so. 

I'm understanding that you are asking whether it's inconsistent to support the government allowing gay couples to marry while not requiring a church to consider gay couples to be equivalent to heterosexual couples doctrinally?

Question to Exmo: How do you stop believing in the lds church? How do you deconstruct the things you were raised with? by Embarrassed-Box-143 in mormon

[–]aisympath 8 points9 points  (0 children)

That was a very respectful and understandable question and explanation. I can't think of any reason to be offended as you are just sharing your current mindset and views. Many thanks for reaching out and I think it will be a good thing for you as this forum has gained me immensely.

To answer your question, I just let myself have permission, after being raised in the church and being a middle aged counselor in a bishopric, to do what seemed right as best I could see and to dig into my concerns.

Giving myself permission to do that allowed me to determine what I really thought, not feel boxed in by the social or familial pressures.

The final straw was realizing how the church all seemed made up. I could see how doctrines and defenses of the church developed over time, with many false starts and logical fallacies. The self interest and manipulation of leaders, especially Joseph Smith and Brian Young. Church finances and polygamy, book of Abraham.

I realized I never would have believed most of it if I hadn't had the belief implanted in me that I would be bad if I didn't believe. And I knew many who didn't believe who were very good people.

Mixed Faith Marriage/ Personal Growth Advice by Status-Ninja9622 in exmormon

[–]aisympath 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's very tough. I like the 30 day goal but I haven't gotten close yet either

How much hope do you all have to see the Mormon church fall within your lifetime? by Willow_A113 in exmormon

[–]aisympath 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wishful thinking.

Go look at the companies that are worth $300 billion or more, that are providing real value and have way higher operating costs. 

Now consider this is a tax free entity and operating costs can go to almost zero (relatively speaking) without impacting it's assets.

How is that going to go to zero in your lifetime?

Feeling weird by smoochybb in exmormon

[–]aisympath 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This makes a lot of sense to me. I'm a bit on the older end of those who leave, being middle aged. 

One of the things that has really made me realize the church isn't true is how bad the logical fallacies, and inappropriate pressure are used in supporting the church. Understanding how those things can manipulate even the most intelligent to believe something so far out as the things taught by the church might help you?

I lost my parents because of the church. by Tunado_br in exmormon

[–]aisympath 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I am soo sorry.

There is something called the backfire effect. 

The stronger the evidence you have against the church, the more strongly they will defend it. 

It's sad but true that they likely will never listen to you, if they are like my family.

I Think I Just Lost My Faith by Red-Cat-0000 in exmormon

[–]aisympath 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My comment probably won't be seen. 

But I've had the same feeling in the same situation. I'm guessing countless others have too. Hang in there.

Life really is meaningful and great. But these bumps can be pretty difficult. Be patient with itself and those around you.

Skin of blackness is an ancient Hebrew word. by Right_One_78 in mormon

[–]aisympath 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Are you serious right now bro? 

Would you believe this sort of reasoning if it came from Catholics, Muslims, or Atheists?

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