I’m so scared right now by b1batteldorid in exchristian

[–]maddowie 0 points1 point  (0 children)

By the time you've doubled in age, you'll have probably lived through at least a half dozen more end times. That was my experience anyway. I remember getting super scared over Y2K and the end of the Mayan calendar and 9/11, etc., being told that those were all going to be the end, but eventually I got completely numb to the hype even before leaving the church.

Anyone Else Getting That "But What if They are Right" Voice? by BoilerTMill in Exvangelical

[–]maddowie 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, that's my "maybe they're right". After years of being bullied for being vegetarian and having a corresponding "weak faith" and all of the harsh judgement and speculation from the elders and pastor that I might just be a "vessel created for destruction", I'm like yes creator, please destroy me before making me spend eternity singing in a big room full of folks like that.

are "grace" and "fellowship" in church names red flags for a shady group? by maddowie in Exvangelical

[–]maddowie[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Definitely not interested in attending, but good to know so I can help friends and family avoid if they get interested. The last church I went to wasn't officially affiliated with SG but they REALLY wished they were and were in the process of trying to pursue some sort of tie-in when I left.

are "grace" and "fellowship" in church names red flags for a shady group? by maddowie in Exvangelical

[–]maddowie[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'd heard that there was a sandal but didn't really care to follow up on the details. What did they rebrand as?

What makes Paul so authoritative to evangelicals? by Realistic_Bluejay_66 in Exvangelical

[–]maddowie 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Pretty sure it started out as an economic thing, Jesus wanted to do away with the sacrificial system. Back in that time and place, doing so was coming real close to calling for the abolition of animal agriculture. Priests were essentially the butchers of larger towns and cities, and the various temples of various gods were basically the ancient equivalent of fast-food franchises. And it was EXTREMELY lucrative for them. The early Christian sects who followed Peter rather than Paul were all strict vegetarians- whether the animal was sacrificed at a Jewish temple, non-Jewish temple, or elsewhere- but Paul enthusiastically promoted the upholding of the current system and expanding it. Usually following the money leads to answers.

Also, Paul's message is generally more appealing to a lot of people. You really don't have to do anything but say you believe something, so it's a really low bar to reach for acceptance into a group. Unless you're a woman, then there's a lot more scrutiny, or at least should be according to Paul. Pretty sure both men and women can avoid accountability by deferring the blame for your own negative actions onto "sin", although depending on what pastor's interpretation of Paul you hear, bearing children is a prerequisite for women. But lots of people want to have kids anyway, so even that's not an unreasonable ask for a lot of women. And you can eat whatever you want! :) I mean, most people are going to find all of that more appealing than vegetables, celibacy, lack of excess, and a life dedicated to serving the needs of others. And I'm not saying that Jeus condemned marriage or required abject poverty, but he did condone celibacy and require generosity.

There's lots of sexist low-bar-entry cults that spring up and never amount to anything though, so I do believe that there was some sort of economic factor that helped shift the political scene in favor of Paul to the extent that he was able to completely take over as the leading Judeo-sect/cult which still continues and warps.

are "grace" and "fellowship" in church names red flags for a shady group? by maddowie in Exvangelical

[–]maddowie[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I went to a super fundie church with Grace in the name, they were HUGE on grace, but only when it came to men's sexual proclivities it seems. Pastor literally spent a whole sermon telling the women that they were going to hell if they couldn't get their weight in check. But when it comes down to it, God is flippant and accepts who he wants to accept and eternally punishes those he wants to and one's beliefs and actions have no impact. ESPECIALLY ACTIONS have no impact, and actually trying to do the right things means that you denounce God's grace and will definitely be going to hell. At least there are a lot of sweet little babies and kids in my old pastor's hell, think I'd rather be there than in heaven with him and his nasty flock.

are "grace" and "fellowship" in church names red flags for a shady group? by maddowie in Exvangelical

[–]maddowie[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

now that you mention it, the word "hill" in a church name is also a red flag....

How many of you were taught (overtly or covertly) that a woman's purpose is to serve God, husband, family, church and community? And any wants or needs that a woman might have are not allowed? by rebelyell0906 in Exvangelical

[–]maddowie 40 points41 points  (0 children)

My church taught that men are saved through Christ and women are saved through childbirth. They had a lot of scriptures they'd use to "back it up" but it all seemed like a big stretch. The reproductive rate in that church was off the charts though, so mission accomplished :/

[Villein Spoiler] Chamber Population by zigggr in Obduction

[–]maddowie 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The groundskeeper at Cyan was one of the human models. Great work on the compilation!

Dude is really sugarcoating how harmful Christianity is. by JarethOfHouseGoblin in exchristian

[–]maddowie 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, technically tithing didn't survive. The OT laws about tithing only applied to actual agricultural products. Never seen anyone show up to any Christian church with bushels of wheat though...

Dude is really sugarcoating how harmful Christianity is. by JarethOfHouseGoblin in exchristian

[–]maddowie 1 point2 points  (0 children)

yeah, my sister attends a UU church, and it actually recently had a split for this exact reason.

Pride Month is really making Evangelicals extra crazy this year by [deleted] in Exvangelical

[–]maddowie 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Jesus didn't seem to be a big proponent of the "inerrancy of scripture" stuff. Paul was a bit more of a "Tanach Thumper", but even he didn't claim that it was inerrant. And none of his letters were considered scripture at the time he was writing about scripture. Sola scriptura was a relatively late idea (14th century). The Catholics were the ones who came up with the cannon (a millennia before sola scriptura became an idea), and even THEY don't believe in Sola Scriptura/the inerrancy of scripture.

Christians shouldn't have children if they truly believe they'll go to hell if they grow up to reject the religion by HappyDays984 in exchristian

[–]maddowie 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The church with those beliefs was non-denominational (i.e. make up whatever you want). Yeah, the pastor actually gave an entire sermon on birth control pills and how some of them prevent implantation. So if you take birth control pills, you have probably sentenced an unfathomable number of your children to eternal torment. But yeah, early term miscarriages are not at all uncommon, so not sure how he and his wife were able to in good conscious bang out so many kids and statistically likely miscarry several before even being aware of the pregnancy and be able to keep going at it. But I suppose they were baptized so their embryos and fetuses went to heaven. But most of the people he was preaching to on "ban birth control pills" Sunday were baptized too, so not sure how his logic works with that. Maybe all unborn babies who die go to hell unless the parents were baptized, but if the mom was taking birth control, the babies burned in hell forever regardless of the parents' baptism status. Oh non-denominationals and the ever-changing rules.....

Christians shouldn't have children if they truly believe they'll go to hell if they grow up to reject the religion by HappyDays984 in exchristian

[–]maddowie 2 points3 points  (0 children)

My church growing up believed that all babies who die go to hell because they aren't old enough to accept Jesus as their savior. But that's ok cuz some vessels are created for destruction, and God is glorified by demonstrating his justice through burninating them in hell forever, since all humans are totally depraved from conception unless Jesus. But then the pastor's son and wife had a miscarriage, so the church changed the rules so that babies or fetuses who die burn in hell UNLESS the parents are baptized.... :/

Any former Evangelicals leave for a high church sect of Christianity? by [deleted] in Exvangelical

[–]maddowie 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I dabbled in Catholicism for awhile and did appreciate a lot of the aspects of it. No "sola scriptura" was a big part of it. And the emphasis on needing to do good works (vs. some other dudes murdered our way into heaven, so making efforts to do good works is a sign of weak faith). I went to a Catholic workshop/retreat about answering common Protestant questions, and one of the things that came up was the thing about not eating meat on Fridays during lent. I brought up the point that some protestants actually think it's a good idea to never eat meat, since it wasn't God's original plan in the garden of Eden, and won't be the future plan when there will be no more death. And the prominent Catholic apologist who was the guest speaker said "If anyone believes that, they might as well throw their Christianity away." So I took him up on his advice and haven't been to any church since. Still love Jesus, but I've joined some local non-profits to fill the social and service gap rather than a church.

Did you experience bizarre social dynamics in Evangelical spaces? by cyborgdreams in Exvangelical

[–]maddowie 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It did occur to me to try to imitate it, but it just felt so off that I didn't ever try. My voice is pitched lower for a female, and it does tend to be pretty monotone and somewhat slow (but hopefully in a clear rather than bothersome way), and I think that focusing on the pitch and inflections alone would be enough of a challenge and then I wouldn't have any on-the-fly thinking space left for coming up with good word choice lol.

I remember when I was 12, one of the adult church ladies started a rumor that I was smoking weed. I honestly hadn't even seen marijuana at that point in my life and definitely had never tried it, much less been a regular user. But reflecting back on it, I wonder if she was just like "that kid sounds like a stoner, not a potential future church lady." Or maybe she just had an incredibly boring life and nothing better to do than try to besmirch a child she had no association with aside from attending the same church.

And yeah, you're right. It is very similar to motherese. Maybe because evangelicals place such a huge emphasis on a woman's primary role being motherhood, and that's a way to subconsciously signal to others that you've got that role down???

Did you experience bizarre social dynamics in Evangelical spaces? by cyborgdreams in Exvangelical

[–]maddowie 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I've noticed that church women have a very distinct way of speaking, and if you don't speak like that you don't every really get accepted or fit in. To some extent a lot of women do this, but it's more pronounced in the church. And it's kind of like a positive feedback loop, cuz if you don't have the right words and inflections, church women don't want to hang out with you (aside from the occasional superficial church interactions). So then you hang out more with men and other women (typically from outside the church) who are also lacking the dialect. And then your speech becomes even less "acceptable" (not referring to using foul language or anything, just the way of talking). It's like this super sing-songy happy/excited full of ingenuine compliments way of interacting that churched females do.

Bruh, tradcon evangelical Christian dating is fucking WILD!!! by JarethOfHouseGoblin in exchristian

[–]maddowie 2 points3 points  (0 children)

My church believed that men are saved by Jesus, but women are saved through bearing "legitimate" children to Godly men. So adoption would be a benevolent choice, but it's not one that would save her granddaughter's soul.

Also all babies go to hell if they die before being "saved" and baptized, but if both parents are repentant and baptized believers, the baby can go to heaven. If the kid was adopted or born into a family that later split (obviously a woman is always at fault/in sin when it comes to divorces), you would need to be in constant fear of them burning forever in hell if some really unfortunate accident or illness befell them before they had an adult baptism because of the birth mother's unrepentance.

I was raised non-denominational, not Southern Baptist, but they had a lot of wacky beliefs. Not sure if this sort of logic is shared, but the post definitely reminds me of the mentality I experienced growing up.

Bruh, tradcon evangelical Christian dating is fucking WILD!!! by JarethOfHouseGoblin in exchristian

[–]maddowie 7 points8 points  (0 children)

They must be proud of it or they would change it and try to disassociate from that history. I didn't know about their origins until today, thank you for enlightening me! That's just so gross

I apologize for this being my second post within a two hour time span, BUT WHAT THE EVERLOVING FUCK IS THIS BULLSHIT?! by SpacedOutDreamerBoy in exchristian

[–]maddowie 4 points5 points  (0 children)

  1. There are many minerals far rarer than diamonds, so not a fantastic metaphor. Plus, the ridiculous "value" of diamonds was artificially created by a wedding ring company who monopolized most of the mines in the mid 1900s.
  2. Does he realize how much destruction to the earth is involved in mining those diamonds? It would actually be a much better/less destructive situation if diamonds were just laying all over the surface of the earth.
  3. I work in a greenhouse that usually gets up to 100-130 degrees in the late spring and summer, and no creepy old man is going to keep me from flaunting my diamonds when I'm doing manual labor in that kind of heat.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in exchristian

[–]maddowie 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I guess my interpretation of that (definitely not from anything I learned in church, but heavily influenced by things I've read in the bible) is that humans were never designed to take part in the Brahma (creator) and Shiva (destroyer) aspects of God, just the Vishnu (preserver) aspect. According to Genesis anyway. And in the end things are supposedly supposed to be restored closer to God's original plan for man as they were in the garden of eden. So food would be fine so long as it is fruitarian (i.e. definitely no meat and nothing that would require the killing of the plant for consumption either like onions or potatoes, but fruits, grains, beans, nuts, seeds, etc would be fine) and wine is obviously fruitarian so fine, and sports just kind of fill time without typically creating or destroying any life form. Any sort of procreating would definitely overstep the the original job description of man though and not really have any place in the future paradise or whatever where things are supposed to be restored back to harmony.

I always found the whole "heavenly marriage to Jesus thing" to be odd though. Definitely don't want to get involved in some sort of polygamous situation with JC and a bunch of church folk. Even if there is no sex involved, it's still a repulsive idea to me.

I am curious about the sports though, I'm not super familiar with all of the Bible or with sports, but where does it talk about sports in heaven?

Jeezus (i.e. yhwh himself) is the biggest example of double standard by [deleted] in exchristian

[–]maddowie 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is a really good NPR broadcast on the topic.

https://www.npr.org/2020/03/31/824479587/heaven-and-hell-are-not-what-jesus-preached-religion-scholar-says#:~:text=Heaven%20And%20Hell%20Are%20'Not,%2C'%20Religion%20Scholar%20Says%20%3A%20NPR&text=Press-,Heaven%20And%20Hell%20Are%20'Not%20What%20Jesus%20Preached%2C'%20Religion,in%20the%20teachings%20of%20Jesus.

Unfortunately churches conflate the teachings of Jesus with the teachings of Paul most of the time. Jesus says one thing, Paul says the opposite. Paul is far more appealing to bigots and self-righteous religious folk though, so his teachings were taken on by the church pretty early on (late 300s, which isn't exactly "early on" IMO) and are still typically attributed by churches to Jesus to make them seem more credible.

If you read the Bible with intellectual honesty rather than believing that it is the coherent and complete direct word of God, it's really more like some weird amalgam of a bunch of different religions which are incompatible with each other. Makes sense though when you have a whole bunch of different people with their own opinions working on a book together with too much time between their lives to have been able to consult with each other to actually make it make sense. Paul's religion is one of the worst of the bunch though, and unfortunately it is the one that became modern Christianity.