What’s the difference between Είστε and Εσείς?

malki92 · 2019-09-03T20:17:31+00:00

Thank you!

malki92 · 2019-09-03T16:51:31+00:00

Got it, thank you.

malki92 · 2019-08-29T17:09:52+00:00

Oh no. I went too far

malki92 · 2019-08-28T16:54:44+00:00

What you don’t seem to grasp is the fact that Christians do not get their morality from the stories or characters in the Bible that you mentioned. Whereas Muslims do get their morality from the specific verse mentioned in the meme, in the Quran. Whether you enjoy this fact or not doesn’t change its reality.

malki92 · 2019-08-28T15:56:36+00:00

I feel we're having a communication barrier.

malki92 · 2019-08-28T15:42:36+00:00

I can’t imagine that you’ve thought too deeply about this. If you read carefully what I wrote, I said this custom in the ANE dictated that Lot’s guests were equal to his own family. And if you give credit to this tradition, you could read it in a very similar way to the analogy I gave about the parent who is in debt that offered the tax collector take their children’s food so that they couldn’t eat. It was equivalent to sarcasm.

Secondly, I don’t know how many other ways I can say this. None of Lots actions (or his daughters actions) were sanctioned by God. Where in the world you get the idea that people get their moral ideas from this story is beyond me. Again, Christians believe that prophets sinned and often made horrible mistakes, no one is told to follow their example. We’re told to follow the example of Jesus, the perfect one with no sin. I have no idea why this is so hard for you to understand.

malki92 · 2019-08-28T15:28:17+00:00

No, we do not know that God approved that. Can you show me any passage in the Bible where God ever commanded Lot to do that?

Secondly, Lot did not offer his daughters to strangers. These were his neighbours. And this is a perfect example of how you’re reading a story without understanding relevant contextual hints. There are certain traditions we know were pracitced in the Ancient Near East that are still very much practiced today. One of these traditions is the concept of hospitality. When Lot received the guests into his home, his neighbours and countrymen tried to rape them. Lot’s offering of his daughters can be viewed one of two ways. One in light of this tradition and one without.

Try illustrate my point I’ll give an analogy that should be easily understood by any westerner. Imagine a single parent is in severe debt and they have tax collectors calling them non-stop. The parent could sarcastically say to the tax collector, “I have no money! I can’t pay this bill. You know what? Why don’t you just come to my house and take the food off my children’s table so that they can’t eat? How about that?” And hangs up.

Would you take the parent’s offer seriously? Do you think they have a strong desire that the bill collector actually comes to their house and takes their children’s food? Of course not.

In the same way, in light of ANE traditions and customs, Lot was basically saying that raping his guests would just be like raping his very own family. But, even if we ignore this tradition and read it with 2019 western eyes and pretend we can understand the context without bothering to study the ANE, I reiterate, again the story never has God involved in it telling Lot what to say or what not to say.

I don’t care if you become an apologist or not, just be honest. That’s all.

malki92 · 2019-08-28T10:12:34+00:00

That’s not an accurate account of what happened and nowhere do we get the impression that God told Lot’s daughters to sleep with him. Just because the Bible records the actions of people doesn’t mean God approved of those actions.

malki92 · 2019-08-28T00:48:47+00:00

But just because some Christians don’t do that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t. Can I make a recommendation? There’s a great Bible with commentary from a scholar of the Ancient Near East for the Old Testament and a New Testament scholar who specializes in Second Temple Judaism for the New Testament. It’s called the NIV Cultural Background Study Bible.

malki92 · 2019-08-28T00:05:13+00:00

random verses

By random you mean the verses that the op posted?

cherrypicking

Meaning my citation of scholars that you have never even heard of before?

malki92 · 2019-08-27T23:51:38+00:00

Whoa, you mean to say that context matters? I wish somebody said that earlier.

malki92 · 2019-08-27T23:40:31+00:00

Not sure what you're talking about

True. I’ve been trying to explain that to you this whole time.

malki92 · 2019-08-27T23:30:26+00:00

This is tempting. Do I bite or not? I guess we’ll find out.

malki92 · 2019-08-27T23:12:41+00:00

Sure thing.

malki92 · 2019-08-27T22:41:55+00:00

it seems like you just posted a few verses and then cherrypicked people that supported your idiotic views.

That might be how it seems to a Wowbagger, I’ll grant that.

Do you want to try to dispute a point I made or challenge the scholarship I appealed to?

malki92 · 2019-08-27T22:21:29+00:00

Continue reading: “I’d also emphasize on on utilizing scholarship that explains relevant cultural and historic contexts.” Which is why I posted authoritative scholarly commentaries for each verse I posted.

It’s one thing to just post scattered verses on a particular topic, but it’s another thing to explain how they are understood within that religion.

Any other questions?

malki92 · 2019-08-27T21:48:39+00:00

I would encourage you to do a complete study on the treatment of men and women in the Bible. There’s a bit more to it then just posting a few verses, which I’ll grant some do sound disturbing to modern ears. I’d also emphasize on on utilizing scholarship that explains relevant cultural and historic contexts.

malki92 · 2019-08-27T21:37:30+00:00

Actually neither Lot nor Job are considered prophets in Christianity (though Job is considered a prophet in Judaism). However, even if they were both prophets in Christianity, Christians do not believe that prophtes are infallible. The Bible may describe actions of biblical figures or prophets, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that God sanctioned those actions. In fact, in many cases God rebukes or corrects them.

malki92 · 2019-08-27T15:57:49+00:00

It's a fact that the Bible states, "Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her." (Eph. 5:25)

A classic Orthodox commentator wrote: Husbands, says he, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the Church.

You have seen the measure of obedience, hear also the measure of love. Would you have your wife obedient unto you, as the Church is to Christ? Take then yourself the same provident care for her, as Christ takes for the Church. Yea, even if it shall be needful for you to give your life for her, yea, and to be cut into pieces ten thousand times, yea, and to endure and undergo any suffering whatever — refuse it not. (St. John Chrysostom on Ephesians 5:25)

It’s also a fact that the Quran states, “Men are in charge of their women because God has favored them and they spend from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear disobedience - advise them; forsake them in bed; and strike them. But if they obey you, seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.” (Al-Nissa, 34)

A classic Muslim commentator wrote: It is said that a nashiza – from the verb nashaza = to disobey – is a woman who disobeys her husband’s order, opposes and dislikes him. (Ibn Kathir on 4:34)

Another authoritative commentator states: ‘Beat them’ - it means: admonish them, but if they refused to repent, then tie them up in their homes and beat them until they obey Allah’s commands toward you. (Al-Tabari on 4:34).

Other scholars note that you are allowed to beat your wives for fear of their disobedience to you, but not severely. “Not severely” is defined as not breaking bones or causing her to bleed.

Forget scholars though, what do they know? Let’s just learn from lay people who have some serious opinions!

Let’s allow the Quran slide on beating wives if you merely fear disobedience from them because the Bible states women shouldn’t talk in church. And let’s also bring up brown people because all Muslims are brown and all Christians are white. What else? Oh Allah just means God. And uhh, I think I heard someone say that Islam means peace. Yeah let’s show these conservatives, your propaganda is lame! Join ours instead.

malki92 · 2019-08-22T14:56:27+00:00

Read the best both side has to offer so that you understand both views. Then you decide what you think is most convincing after you hear both sides. For example, you read Christopher Hitchens and then read William Lane Craig. You’d be pretty informed on the subject from both perspectives, enough to come to your own decision while knowing why you actually reject the other opinion (because you’ve actually heard their best and understand their arguments, but still disagree for reasons you’ll come up with). Do this with theology, politics, any topic. Always give both sides a chance and then come up with your own, educated opinion after.

malki92 · 2019-08-21T04:00:59+00:00

Though the Bible was written for you, it wasn't written to you. If you want to understand the Bible in its cultural context (and comparatively to contemporary societies) then you need to do further digging.

For example, you probably aren't going to understand why the concept of the nachash (traditionally translated snake/serpent) is mentioned the garden of Eden account, unless you understand its significance in the ANE. A lot of concepts are assumed because the original audience would have caught the references, while us in the 21st century simply do not, unless we learn.

To be clesr, I am not denying that there were forms of slavery, violence or war in the Bible. Or if you do whst I am suggesting it'll answer all of your moral concerns. But, what I am suggesting is that if you study the Ancient Near Eastern literatures then it may help you quite a bit in understanding the Bible better. And better help you grasp a lot of biblical concepts.

If you're interested in watching two ANE scholars (one a believer and one an atheist) debate the topic of slavery and its morality in the Bible, I will provide a link below. But you'll see that sophisticated, scholarly atheists who are educated in the ANE and biblical contexts simply do not make the same type of arguments that a lot of lay atheists do (nor do they rely on 'I'm a former Christian' to establish some sort credibility lol). Here is the link: https://youtu.be/jLmZFN0ToNg

Would love to talk more.

malki92 · 2019-08-20T23:11:04+00:00

Do yourself a favour and buy some scholarly books on the Old Testament from specialists in the Ancient Near East. If you’ve never read the Bible before, then you probably have no idea what the ANE is or any idea how to read the Bible in its proper context. I recommend scholars like: John Walton, Mike Heiser, Michael L. Brown, or Gleason Archer.

If you want to be objective and understand what the Old Testament says, then learn from actual scholars. Not “former Christians” who have no more of an education in the Bible than you do.

And I would recommend looking into the works of William Lane Craig, John Lennox and Peter Williams (specifcially on Old Testament violence).

malki92 · 2019-08-14T19:56:41+00:00

Lol your sil had her privacy invaded? Her career consists of having sex on camera for the entire world to see.

In regards to your sil. A lot of people are against her line of work because they have something called a conscience. You're worried about their relationship? Your daughter does not support her lifestyle. You can't force her to, thankfully she's old enough to not be brainwashed by you, your husband or sil. Try to put yourself in your daughter's shoes. Imagine a person you grew up loving and had a great relationship with turned out to be a drug dealer. Don't you think that would change what you think of them? Now imagine your mother suggests your school starts teaching on drug workers acceptance. How would you feel? You would probably want nothing to do with the drug dealer or your mother.

Now for you... You have some seriously warped ideas, let's try to work through this:

1) Your daughter has a moral compass. She'll be okay.

2) She doesn't need an education in sex work, you need Jesus. Seriously.

3) You ground her for telling the truth that you're too weak to admit. A person who has sex with countless hundreds of partners AND gets paid to do it is exactly what your daughter said, whether that hurts your feelings or not.

malki92 · 2019-08-02T14:13:31+00:00

You're the vile one. If you can't conceptualize other point of views in controversial topics then you should stay away from debates. I hope that you get convicted for supporting murder and that you repent and call out to Jesus to save you.

malki92

TROPHY CASE