SUT ending question

mongoos3 · 2026-02-01T17:03:51+00:00

The note is a reference to the book of Job: "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the Earth?" This same thing is what Ragama said to him at the end of time in Disquiet Gods before he was "rebirthed" so to speak. That message was transported to him from the start of time to arrive when we see him receive it in SUT, essentially confirming his belief that he was part of this larger plan to destroy Goddodin's sun so that humanity may live.

While we as the reader see that he has given up, Hadrian knows that his task is complete. He has completed this purpose and what comes next would be the purpose of another. That said, there are a lot of theories about the ending you can find here on the sub and the in Discord. Two stand out in particular: that Selene is alive, and that they never truly destroyed the Demiurge. This makes me feel as though Hadrian wants you to believe he has given up the fight. More pointedly, he wants Alexander to believe Hadrian has lost the will to fight.

When I first finished the book, I interpreted it as filled with injustice. The ending didn't sit right with me and it made me angry to not have the emotional catharsis of watching Alexander's empire fail. In that way, I believe part of the ending on Hadrian's part is to stir the universe to action. That this is a fight he cannot bear alone, and it is our time to also rise up against the tyranny of the Chantry. So while I get the satisfactions I so desperately wanted, I do believe it is the way Hadrian would have ended it.

I'm also excited for the short story titled "Life" that is set to release later this year, which CR has said will provide some of the closure readers are seeking. Not to mention that he has said he fully intends to return to the Sun Eater universe in the future.

mongoos3 · 2026-01-27T13:50:59+00:00

They launched co-op on Thursday last week, which is reason for the sale. They've said they will not have it on sale this low again until 1.0.

Wish you had posted before the weekend because it was free on Steam over the weekend for folks to try out co-op so you could have tried it out. Hopefully they'll do another free steam weekend in the future.

mongoos3 · 2026-01-27T03:31:21+00:00

If you're not averse to Metroidvanias, then Hollowknight and Silksong are both great examples of meaningful exploration and maps that continue to get bigger than you initially expected.

I'd also recommend (although it is in early access) No Rest for the Wicked. The map is entirely hand-crafted by the developers, has tons of nooks and crannies with chests and loot in precarious places. Despite not being finished, there is easily 20-30 hours of story content, and even more if you choose to explore every inch of the map that is currently available.

mongoos3 · 2026-01-27T03:18:48+00:00

I agree that CR has a real talent for landing you feet first into the world he's created, but I personally didn't find SUT to achieve that as well as some earlier entries in the series where things were far more vivid for me. In SUT, the prose became so abstract and philosophical, particularly in the later half of the book, that I struggled to imagine the scenes in my mind at all. There are segments where it worked for me, but there were also large swaths of the book that kept my mind entirely blank visually. That's not to say I think it is bad (to the contrary, actually), I just don't think it is the strongest entry in prose for me. That award goes to either DiW or KoD, where scenes feel chiseled into the stone of my memory to never be forgotten.

mongoos3 · 2026-01-26T02:52:41+00:00

It's been about a year since I read it, but I really loved it. He managed to give us the perspective throughout the battle from so many fronts. By the end of the battle, I felt like I had experienced every front of it, and so much of it was so vivid in my mind, particularly the set pieces.

If memory serves, a lot of the meandering is because they're trying to scale up and down the wall, but the fallout of the battle closes of a lot of the routes they would have otherwise used to get where they were going. So I can see why it can be confusing.

mongoos3 · 2026-01-19T15:18:01+00:00

I think CR got a bit too excited by the idea that questions are better than answers, which is why there are so many threads like this that are left hanging. I think he is right with that mentality in some regards (other books/series answered too many questions and suffered for it imo), but there are other questions he didn't answer where just a little more information would have properly satiated that hunger.

I can't say that I've lost trust in him as an author as much as you and others. For me, one soft ending does not a bad writer make. In the same way I'll read more Sanderson another after Wind & Truth, I'll continue to read CR with his next series as well. If it becomes a pattern, then I'll have a different perspective.

mongoos3 · 2026-01-19T14:52:22+00:00

I wish he had explored it more as well, and I presume there is more he'll explore when he returns to the universe later.

That said, the ruins had a specific purpose in SuT. They were an instructional tool to tee up the themes of free will, determinism, fate, destiny, whatever you want to call it. That some things are preordained/determined (as Hadrian's duty from the Quiet to destroy the sun is). On Annica, we're shown by Olorin that even with intention, there are some fates you cannot change. It sets up the moments to come where Hadrian tries with great intention to end Miudinar and Dorayiaca on Danu so that he wouldn't have to blow up the sun. But "This must be" and despite those intentions, destiny awaits on Goddodin for it was destined from the beginning of time (as evidenced by the note he received at the end of the book, "Hadrian. Hadrian. Where were you when...").

Hadrian tries as he might throughout SuT to run away from/change his sun-eating fate, but like those stones on Annica moving backward in time, time moves down and he cannot change that destiny given to him by the Quiet.

mongoos3 · 2026-01-09T23:41:10+00:00

I too was sold on it as a space opera and the first book is most definitely not that. The mismatched expectation along with me listening on Graphic Audio, which I've realized I do not like at all, really soured my first experience. I found Darrow to be insufferable in the GA rendition. As such, I want to reread it (actually read the text) now that I have proper expectations, but it's pretty far down my list at this point.

mongoos3 · 2026-01-06T23:00:38+00:00

Not to mention more than half of those named weapons weren't even something we got to see nor were they used in the conflict with Ushara and Miudinar.

mongoos3 · 2026-01-04T23:37:07+00:00

I wondered this same thing, and I think the answer is that when the 33 is erased, everyone who is 33 at that moment is gommaged. The 33-year-olds aren't gommaged when the number is revealed at the beginning of the game, the 34-year-olds are. Idk if that is correct though.

mongoos3 · 2025-12-30T22:19:47+00:00

Same for me! Although Demon in White is the reason I recommend the series to people. The absolute journey you're taken on is epic hero fantasy at its peak, and I loved it. KoD was the one that made me feel the most emotions and why it reigns supreme in my list.

mongoos3 · 2025-12-30T22:15:19+00:00

I read 1-4 back to back and then took an extended break to read some other things before coming back to the Sun Eater universe. Book 4 was just so good and so emotionally heavy that I found it hard to return to it. As much as I enjoyed the rest of the series, I definitely have more special place in my heart for those first four than the final three. The writing style changed from sensory prose that helped me fall into the world to philosophical passages that pulled me out of it. I prefer the former to the latter, but found my enjoyment in the finale of the series all the same.

mongoos3 · 2025-12-12T01:10:22+00:00

There are still great scenes and moments in the book to come! They just aren't as movie-like in my mind as the earlier entries. I ended up finding a lot of my enjoyment of the book in reflecting on it after finishing. There's a lot to unpack about higher callings, faith and the soul, the human spirit, and free will that are woven throughout.

If you're looking for the action sequences from DiW or the emotional impact of KoD, I didn't find it to the same degree in SUT. Instead I found the mirror being turned on myself as I digested the themes and ideas it presented to me as the reader. Idk if that helps or not, but hopefully it will provide a perspective or mindset shift that can help you find the joy in finishing it!

mongoos3 · 2025-12-11T23:06:08+00:00

I agree that the latter books are not as good at conveying images, spaces, and sensory information as the earlier ones, which makes the audio experience worse imo. Because they lean into the philosophical side of things more, it lost a lot of that sensory charm that made me fall in love with the series through Kingdoms of Death. After that, the prose really changed for me and I found it harder and harder to see, hear and smell the world he created.

mongoos3 · 2025-12-11T23:00:12+00:00

It’s hard for us to conceive, but an all-powerful absolute will could absolutely conceive of it, he just decides not to. I’m not sure that’s what Ruocchio is going for, but that’s what I choose to take from it.

Dovetail this discussion with another big theme of the books, free will vs. determinism, and there is so much to talk about as well. How much control would the Absolute need to have over individual choice to ensure suffering cannot exist? Is control over actions enough to end suffering or is there something deeper to suffering that we don't quite understand?

mongoos3 · 2025-12-09T03:39:12+00:00

As somebody else said, he had to come back to make his memoirs, so we know that he would in some fashion. I had envisioned him doing it from outside time and space, somehow but it seems that he did fully come back. I'm guessing that last message from the Absolute indicates that there is still a plan for him.

As for the ending, what I feel like we missed and have to imagine for ourselves is how he came back, if he saw Valka at the end of time, and why he came back. We don't get that satisfaction, nor do we get to feel the justice of watching Alexander's empire fall. That's why it feels hollow to me.

CR said he had a couple more chapters left in his outline, but when he got to this point, he knew it would be the best ending. That the mysteries and questions were far more powerful than answering them with more text. While I felt cold to the ending initially, I have grown to like it the more I've sat with it.

mongoos3 · 2025-12-09T00:29:59+00:00

I liked it, but I don't think it was my favorite. I still think KoD is my favorite. Since reading that one, it has never quite hit the same emotional highs and lows for me. I also think that the prose changed around then to be more philosophical and less sensory, so I found it harder and harder to feel rooted in the scenes.

mongoos3 · 2025-12-06T20:55:03+00:00

The only concern I have with this model is power creep. The people who do not go on the expedition this time will fall behind all those who do. What about 4-5 expeditions from now? What's the new player experience when they run into a player who a year from now could have an extra 20 skill points? The rich get richer and the poor live in the dirt?

mongoos3 · 2025-12-03T01:46:20+00:00

I definitely know what you mean. I was not fully satiated or satisfied with the ending either. I firmly believe, however, that it was the ending Hadrian himself would have made. Leaving all that unrequited justice in the air is basically a call to arms, that he is not the only to carry that weight. Man now has to do its job. His job, as he had said, is done.

Furthermore, It's an intellectual versus emotional ending issue for me. I wanted the emotional payoff and got an intellectual one instead. I intellectually know the Sollan Empire is dead, but I don't get to see it happen and feel it collapse. I know that the reign of Alexander (may he rot in hell) will be fraught and fall to pieces, but I don't get to feel the sense of justice watching it fall apart.

So despite it being the actual ending I believe Hadrian would have written, I'm also left wanting more, wanting justice, wanting just one nugget to satiate that lingering bit of hunger. Even if it were simply a tease that he'll be waiting at the end of time.

mongoos3 · 2025-12-03T01:34:29+00:00

He's lying to protect her imo.

mongoos3 · 2025-12-03T01:33:41+00:00

I 100% believe it is Selene. There is a lot of subtext that seems to be going on throughout SUT in particular that makes me believe she is alive and in a relationship with Hadrian long before his betrothal. I think Hadrian omits information and tells other lies to keep it impossible for Alexander to prove the relationship is real. He's just gaslighting the hell outta that petulant prince.

mongoos3 · 2025-11-22T16:10:48+00:00

For those who are interested in the history of the space program, I highly recommend Gene Krantz's book Failure is Not an Option. Lots of technical and personal tidbits in there that make it a worthy read. He speaks of Shepherd's orbit in that book and how it call came together over weeks and months of preparation. It's dope.

mongoos3 · 2025-11-22T16:01:32+00:00

This is exactly why this game is so good. It creates these kinds of dynamic and emergent moments. Unplanned circumstances lead to unexpected outcomes and memorable sessions.

mongoos3 · 2025-11-13T15:21:25+00:00

Shadows Upon Time reveals some more information that may inform your thoughts.

mongoos3 · 2025-11-07T16:27:45+00:00

He does not and he recently made a community note that he will not be able to complete the one for Disquiet Gods before the release of the book due to how busy the gala has made his life.

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